Off topic.

:rolleyes:

I think I read that you adopted this pup. If you adopted from a reputable rescue, you probably signed a contract that requires the pup be returned to them if you don't plan to keep him/her.

As for the "dangerous" yorkie the whole thread proved to me that the poor pup may have been made that way by disreputable trainers. There ARE ways to fix an issue such as the one Bhanish has with his/her pup and suggestions have been made.

I guess you must be just like your brother. :D

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Any updates?

Thanks for the advice everyone. The update is we just heard from the HOA that my pup nipped a resident's ankle when he was with his dog walker (we rely on a walker when the daycare is closed). The dog walker claims that my pup didn't nip at all, but we have been asked to carry my pup in the building. I'm fine with that but I don't want things to escalate.

ladyjane: With every trainer, I am trained as well. Usually trainers come in, observe, make recommendations, and show you how to implement those recommendations. So my personality as a dog owner has shifted throughout these three years.

First, I was told to limit the affection I gave my dog. The theory was that what dogs crave more than anything is the approval and love of their owner. When affection is withheld, the dog is more attentive to the owner's commands because the pup wants that validation of a "good boy" or pat on the head. I was also told to be the pack-leader. I think this theory is sound, although the practice isn't. The theory goes that dogs want a simple life and be relaxed. Without a pack leader, the dog feels like he has to manage the entire world around him, which is anxiety producing and distressing.

Second, I was told to give my dog a lot of praise and affection. Treats were key. My pup had an aversion to being pet, particularly on the front of the head, so the solution was to give him treats until he slowly made his way over to you. With every treat, you try to get closer and closer. When the pup no longer went for the treat and retreated, he was no longer consenting to being touched. Well, that eventually worked because my dog is now far more receptive to being pet. However, he is still a little paranoid when he sees I want to pick him up. Usually it means I'm going to do something he doesn't want like give him a haircut or brush his teeth.

Third, I was told to accept the fact that my pup's world was going to be "small." That some dogs will always have a problem, and so having him around others may not be possible. This was with behaviorist that gave my pup meds. I wasn't truly receptive to this view because my pup was only 2 years old at the time, and I didn't want to give up on him just yet.

Fourth, I was told that love and treats were great, but that my pup needed to accept that he was not the boss of the house. We used a prong collar to prevent him from lunging at people. We put him on "tie-down" in quiet areas of the house. I was also told that daycares were not great for a dog in training, and did not meet a pup's exercise needs. So we had him go on daily pack walks, hiking around every day. My main task in this was to be consistent, embrace the prong collar or bark collar because the dog would be in more pain with many small corrections rather than one large one to get the point across, and to meet my pup's exercise needs. Honestly, I hate to admit it, but many of these things made my pup more tolerable. He stopped lunging. He gained more confidence from the pack walks. And the bark collar taught him only to bark when it was "necessary"/when he got tunnel vision. But it wasn't sustainable. The goal was to eventually pull back all these methods and my pup would behave as he did when the methods were in effect. But anytime I would pull back, his behavior came back in full force. Eventually, I decided I couldn't do that to him for years and years.

Ellie May: Thank you for your thoughtful post. I think you have described my situation with my pup perfectly. I agree that it is not an easy fix and that it will require a lot of time (admittedly, I have a time-consuming job), but I feel like I'm racing the clock. I don't want him to be put down.

But I've made some adjustments: (1) no delivery person can knock or ring, and must leave items at the door; (2) I or anyone handling Whimsy must carry him out of the building; (3) he can no longer be off-leash at the dog park with a dog walker; I knew to never do that when I was around, but now I can't take the risk of him becoming aggressive with other handlers too; and (4) my pup needs to be either on a short leash or in another room when the apartment door is opened for any reason.

I'm also asking his daycare for trainer recommendations, as the one I reached out to is too busy to respond.

I personally would stop looking for trainers and just back off of training right now. So I was looking at your old threads. Is this the yorkie you got from Deb? I have one request please don’t use bark collars and prong collars. Throw them out ASAP. If you are stuck on yet another trainer please make sure it’s a positive reinforcement trainer not one that uses negative training. I’m going to be honest, I am not a huge fan of rehoming but it might actually be best if you don’t have lots of time for him. I don’t know that doggy day care and all these other people handling him is the best. A rescue like Yorkie Haven Rescue could foster him and adopt him to someone who could he with him most of the day and really work with him.

All,

I'm going to keep trying with my pup. I love him too much. I found a trainer who specializes in fear and aggression. And I'm going to take steps to minimize my pup's exposure to triggers.

Thanks!

I really don’t think that’s a good idea. He has already been through so much. Is this the pup you got from Deb?

I'm so glad to hear you are going to work with your dog. Trainers can be GREAT, but, and I am sure you already know, It's not what they teach the dog, it's what they teach the Owner. We always tell people......'You get out of an animal, what YOU put into the animal.'


Any animal, especially dogs, need a 'job'.....or they will find their own. Even Trick Training can be of so much help and also a segway to other Training. It's, and YOU know this, about that Bond you create with them. It is about being their Alpha. Not being mean, being their Leader who when a rule is set, the rule is met. Dogs NEED an Alpha/Leader.....or they take that roll themselves.....we, as humans usually notice this through what we call, "bad/aggressive behavior".


Good Luck, and I really mean that! It's sure going to take time, but YOU can do this.


I am looking forward to seeing your posts about how this is going for you. Starting over is NOT easy.....and I know.....Katy had gone almost 3 full weeks with NO potty mistakes in the house.....then last night...... <sighs and laughs> A dog owner just has to STAY WITH IT, even when the person is tired, or it's raining, or cold or.... <laughs again> Dog Ownership is NOT for the lazy, THAT is for sure! Keep us posted!

It wasn't that I failed to take Katy out.....it was that she climbed the stairs to the bedrooms while we were watching TV and..... <sighs> Yes. We will be securing the stairs today so that she can NOT go up without us. Every Day something else, ey? <laughs>

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: and a bigger :thumbup:

Consistency is the key word.

Dogs can not see a human as an alpha because they do not see the human as another dog. I actually was doing some research on this topic and there can be a more dominate dog in a group but there is no alpha in a group of dogs either. https://www.animalhealthfoundation.n...the-alpha-dog/

People 'research', or write 'research', sometimes so that they can cause a stir. In today's world people want to change words around and pretend they came up with something new, something profound.



I am not sure who wrote what you read, but I will not read it. I will be too busy working with Katy, as her Leader/Trainer/Alpha. I know, through over 55 years TRAINING experience that dogs do have Alphas, sometimes it can even be a CAT! To pretend otherwise is to let your animals 'run amuck'.

EXACTLY! AND! INDEED!



And WE as humans/owners are the ones that FAIL that Consistency! Dang It! Ha Ha


Raising, Caring for, an animal is much like human children.....if you let go of the Leash, and they get away from you, many times you have to Run to TRY to put your hands on that Leash again!


It's that every day, every single day, Get Off Your Butt and Work With YOUR Animals (children) that we Humans seem to get LAZY at!


If not getting on the couch was wrong yesterday, it is wrong today and tomorrow and always. If not jumping on people is wrong as an adult dog.....TEACH THIS AS SOON AS THE PUPPY COMES HOME WITH YOU. (not yelling, just trying to make a point)



Far too many owners/parents use the words, "He/She does not like it.". Life is FULL of 'does not like its.' for ALL of us!, ey?



An example.....the puppy that never learns to walk on a leash because the owner, at the time, did not take the time to teach the basics correctly! Or the owner who only walks their dog where the dog wants to go.....because, "He/She won't come with me.".


I will say too though, that in Today's World, people are not being raised owning animals. From my generation back, we were. Many of us not only pets, but also livestock. If a person is not raised with animals it does not come natural for them to Train.....some people, it does, or they learn, but most of today's young owners have no idea what to do with an animal....

:thumbup: well said

The alpha theory has long been debunked not educating your self in things that change and more research goes into because you think you know everything is not the way the world works. My dogs do not run amuck but I have done my research on alphas and know it’s not a thing. What bothers me is when people show and refuse to keep an open mind to learn knew things. It’s not anything new either it’s that more research was put into it. This poor dog was destroyed by training so keep that in mind too.

OMGooooodness! If I sounded like I was thinking or saying....."I know everything", forgive me. I sure sure don't. I am here, on this forum to learn and talk about Yorkies.


But I will NOT allow you to 'beat up on me" about something I DO know about.


We do not have to agree on this. If you want to pretend there is no such thing as a Leader to a Domestic Dog or in a Wolf or Coyote Pack.....that's on you. I KNOW however, there sure is. And that leader is called an Alpha. If they do not FIND an alpha, they may just BECOME THE ALPHA!

By refusing to read the article you are saying you know it all and you say it in this post as well. There is significant advancement in research of this and whether you want to read my article or not it has been debunked by the original person who put the theory out. Sure their might be a more dominate dog in a pack but they aren’t the alpha and dogs can not see another human as a dog to even be the dominate one. It’s very disturbing that as a trainer you refuse to look at new research. Part of being good at anything is the willingness to better yourself and learn more and what’s new. Could you imagine if veterinarians or even human doctors refused to learn what new in their field. We would be in a lot of trouble.

I have to agree with Marna based on my own personal experience. There has to be a leader / alpha / boss, select any title, it all boils down to being in charge and setting ground rules, what is acceptable, what is not. If there is no leader / alpha / boss you have a dog that rules you. The dog may not see a human as an alpha but sees you as the one in charge. All my dogs were spoiled brats but, when the mama spoke they listened, they knew who was in charge.

I’m not disagreeing with that at all I’m just disagreeing with the alpha stance. I don’t think people realize how abusive some of the alpha training is to dogs like the whole hold your dog flipped over on its back until it stops wiggling or trying to get away. I’m not saying you don’t need to be in charge at all. I hope you don’t agree with them refusing to read and learn why the alpha theory doesn’t work and has been debunked. Being the “alpha” and being the one in charge are very very different.

I read every thing because ya never know, there could be some thing new that I may be able to put to use. I don't know anything about "alpha training" but I will say this, if I had my dog in a training session and the trainer put my dog on his back and held him down, I would be taken out in hand cuffs. I would never put my dog in a submissive position.

You cannot condemn someone for not wanting to read something. I use the word alpha and pack leader all the time, that does not mean I use alpha tactics in my training program. In a group such as YT, it's just a word used meaning the human is in charge. We all have our own way of training our dogs, if it works for you then you stick to what works, not every dog can be trained the same way and you have to accept that. As long as positive training is being used. In the case of Whimsy I agree with you, that poor dog was destroyed with negative, abusive training by many different trainers. You have to trust your trainer. When you have never been a dog owner you don't know what negative training is, you do as the trainer teaches you. If a member refuses to read an article because they have been successful with their training program you should not frown upon that. Remember, that link may help others.

It is funny to me, that you are 'disturbed' by what and what I am not reading. That to you, I am not worthy because I have not fallen all over your 'research'.



Crap is written on the Internet every single day. Not all of it is worth a grain of salt.


I am amazed that in Today's World people get degrees based on 'book knowledge' rather than hands on experience.


I'll take this 'Training Ways' further.....this will probably FLIP YOUR LID! I do NOT like Clicker Training one bit! There are 'experts' out there who make all sorts of claims about how much better Clicker Training is than other ways..... <sneezes.....bull....shee....tt...> Wanna know why.....here is a research page for you, https://workinggermanshepherddogs.com/?id=582 ....scroll down til you find the photos of clickers. BTW, that is ONE of MY animal training websites, PLEASE also visit, on that site, my Obedience Page as well as My Trick Training page. You might just find I might know just a bit about training animals.....be sure to see the Guinea Pig video on the Trick Training page....yes, mine also. Check the Navigation Bar at the side, see the Animal Training Sites? Mine. Everyone of them, mine. I have been training, I mean really truly training, animals since I was 6 y/o.


As I have said before: "What works for one person with their animals, may or may not work for another with their animals."


When people come to these forums and ask for help, as this thread started, I have found that trying to help them, not arguing and worrying about how others are reaching the same goal is the POINT! Not worrying about or being disturbed by what others are reading or not reading. Not judging what the person may or may not have done to get to the point of asking for help, but taking them from the ask forward as best we can.

No what disturbed me is you not wanting to further your education whether you read my research article or different ones it is a fact that the alpha training theory has been debunked it is simply NOT an opinion. Just because you have been doing something for a long time does not mean you are necessarily good at it. Like I said if you are not willing to expand your knowledge with new studies and new facts that come out then you can not better yourself as a trainer. Telling people they need to be alpha is dangerous and trying dogs with the alpha theory is also dangerous because it can really destroy and dog and it rather mean. Am I saying you don't need to be in charge and make sure your dogs know you are the one to listen to absolutely not. I am saying alpha theory has simply been debunked and that it can do much more harm then any good which is shown by the poor dog this post is about.

So we disagree.....let it go now.

You can’t tell me what to do. You also can’t disagree about facts. Sure you can chose to ignore then I suppose......

Anyway, BHANISH: any progresss? I hope your training is going well!!!!

I guess the alternitive is NOT letting it go.

I also dont click on all random links from strangers because if I did Id never have any free time and my experiance is that there is a lot of bad "research" on the internet that could fill decades of free time!!!

Marna, I cant believe you can train ginea pigs and fish!!! Amazing.

Can YOU believe it!, Guinea Pigs are about like training a dog! I was AMAZED HOW EASY TO TRAIN! I find that GPs are easier to train than Pet Rats. I have trained many of both species. GPs really are about like training a dog....and so danged CUTE!


But Potty Training either......no.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C_goGQrzz8