Gio's Mamamia - Tell us what you are seeing
 

I was reading in other posts that you have concerns about your little one becoming aggressive.
What are you seeing?
What gives you that feeling?
What are the concerns?
We can go from there with suggestions and reading material.

Joy

I would like to know also.....just curious. I don't have any issues but my pup is only 14 weeks. He's very quiet well adjusted dog and i pray it stays that way! I'm just waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under me! He hardly barks, sleeps all night and hardly ever gets scared. We took him to my son's birthday party with 12 screaming boys in a private room. He just watched and sniffed around. Even my sister in law who's a vet said he was doing amazing....so now I want to know what to look for so i nip stuff in the bud!

Socialize the stuffing out of him and socialize more.
Make sure that nothing over whelms him.
Then find a nice gentle training course and put first level obedience on him
Read Click for Joy by Melissa C Alexander. I always say read On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals By Turid Rugaas. You be amazed at what you will understand after this book.
Then maybe after those two. The Other End of the Leash : Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs By Patricia B McConnell PH.D.
These are just good general knowledge book.

Joy

Skingstone - I second YorkieMum's suggestions. You want to expose your pup in a positive way to as many dogs and as many strangers as is humanly possible, especially between now and about 20 weeks. After 20 weeks, socialization is still important, but the window before 20 weeks is critical.

YorkieMum's book suggestions were good ones. I would add Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson.

Gio's Mamamia,

Most of what you describe is very normal puppy behavior. The only aspect that I would be concerned about is the "object guarding" - growling and snapping when you try to take something away. You want to do something about that before it escalates, but the good news is that this CAN be treated.

I don't have time right now, but I'll post some suggestions for you later. Or, perhaps YorkieMum will get back to you before me....

[In the meantime, what I absolutely do NOT recommend you use is the "alpha roll" that many members here advocate. I believe it is likely to make your pup worse.]

May I ask why you think the Alpha Roll is harmful. I have had two trainers tell me to use and even my Vet!!! thanks to all for the books info

I don't think the alpha roll it necessarily physically "harmful" but I do think that a) it isn't effective b) it makes many dogs worse and c) it damages your relationship with your dog.

From VeterinaryPartner.com:
"Oh, stop that alpha rollover! That is making her more and more defensive! Even the people who originally wrote that book and recommended that maneuver changed their position on it some years later, but unfortunately people keep teaching it, and doing it. It is extremely harmful to the relationship between dog and owner in many cases. The dogs in which it does no harm, didn't need it anyway!"

From ClickerSolutions.com:
Some so-called experts even suggest using violent techniques like scruff shakes and alpha rolls. At the extreme end, some trainers once advocated downright abusive methods, such as hanging a dog by a choke chain and leash (called helicoptering) until she passed out, or forcing her head underwater until she lost consciousness. These tactics were considered treatment for behaviors as mild as digging or as serious as aggression.

From FirstYorkie: Although this article refers to that time of abuse in the past tense, trainers continue to use these tactics. The fact that a trainer (or a vet) recommends something doesn' necessarily make it okay.

Also from VeterinaryParnter.com:
What is interpreted as dominant behavior of a dog toward humans is usually the result of misunderstandings between the family and the dog. These can sometimes be profound, even tragic. Some people manage to ruin their puppies over the issues of housetraining and the chewing that accompanies teething. When the natural behavior of a dog is viewed as stubbornness, defiance, anger and dominance on the part of the dog, it’s a recipe for disaster.

Mishandling a dog for training results in a dog who distrusts and fears humans. When negative behavior from the dog emerges, it may be labeled dominance when actually it’s fear or defensiveness or both. The dog doesn’t have many options. When you corner the dog, the option of running is taken away. If the dog freezes and you still yell and hit, there’s really no further recourse for the dog other than self-defense.


_______________________________

That's very good to hear about everything you touched on, especially that the "object-guarding" can be treated. It was also mentioned in the thread about socializing w/ different people and different dogs. Giovanni hasn't had his last set of shots yet (which should be next week actually), so I don't want him around any other dogs yet. But after he's had his shots were would be a good place to socialize with other dogs aside from places like Petsmart and the park?

Guarding, he is tiny so class for socializing. A nice puppy class with pups that are mannerly and if they are not get him out of there.
Or find an older smart calm well spoken dog... Read on Talking terms with dogs and you will understand.
Groweling ... Well it not great it is understandable. Look at it from his point of view you are taking a treasure and well not trading. We trade things with our Human kids do it with the dogs to.
So you show a treat and put out our hand to take the other as he reaches for the treat tell him good boy and pass another treat. Take his food, take the toys everything is yours unless you give it and then you can ask for it back and trade a treat.
MINE! A GUIDE TO RESOURCE GUARDING IN DOGS
by Jean Donaldson
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.c...45027&Method=3

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...ctguarding.htm

Joy

Gio'sMamamia, yes, I agree with you on the socializing; it's best to wait until he's had all of his shots before letting him interact with other dogs. You do want to control his interactions with other dogs to be sure that they are positive experiences for him. Besides what you mentioned, go any place that people walk their dogs. Having the experience of meeting other dogs on a leash for a count of 3 and then moving on is also good for them. Of course, the best place of all for dog-dog socializing is puppy obedience school! And besides, it's fun!

As far as the object guarding, here's what I've learned from trainers and reading. (Joey used to have this problem, too). You want to teach your dog a "drop it" command. Basically this is done when he has a lower value object in his mouth that he isn't like to guard. Offer him a treat when he has something in his mouth. As he drops it to reach for the treat, say "drop it" and give him the treat. Pick up what he has, look at it, and give it back. If he can't have it back, offer something else for him to chew or play with. Repeat a bazillion times, making an effort to give things back to him far more often than you take them away. If it's something he can chew on, when you pick it up, smear it with a little peanut butter or soft cheese and give it back. You want him to learn that dropping things on your command is a winning proposition for him!

The link Joy gave you is an excellent article on resource guarding:
http://www.clickersolutions.com/art...ectguarding.htm
The small book she mentioned "MINE!" is also an excellent resource.

In the meantime, try very hard not to chase him and not to corner him. You will make him more defensive. Instead, pick up a treat (keep them handy or on your person) and something to substitute for the forbidden object and walk over. Offer these and see if he will trade. If not, try rolling the treat beside him - as he turns his head to grab it, snatch the forbidden object. This is fair in the doggie world.

Alot of people feel that you have to establish dominance over the dog in these situations. I don't. What worked with Joey is training an alternate, incompatible behavior. He can't guard something if he's following a "drop it" command and getting a treat. We both win.

I think I am going to have a real problem with Archie if I dont get on top of this and fast. he was born 10/20/05 along with 3 others. none of the others have shown this type of agression. I am reallly glad that I didn't sell him (among other reasons) because of this agression. I dont think this is typical puppy agression. when I go to take something away from him that he is not supposed to have, he growls and shows teeth. today he sunk his sharp teeth in my finger, drawing blood. its like he becomes a different dog! its more like a temper. he even grawls at his mother and attacks her. she will back off and then go back and do her dominating stance with him.(gathering him under her front legs and holding him there).
any suggestions?

Again, I'd teach a strong "drop it" command and read up on object guarding.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/art...ectguarding.htm
The small book "MINE!" by Jean Donaldson is also an excellent resource.

I am so grateful that you posted all these things about behaviors .Miss Mini has a good nature about her sometimes I can miss understand her I try hard to think of her as a little one trying to get what they want or to tell you what they want without words , seems like if i have a test of wills mine gets depleted ,The best thing Ive found so far is to talk gently ..hold gently and let her know I am the momma of this house ,some days it seems like shes just having a bad day not unlike us " So in all of this puppy "training period " I hope I am doing it right ,I know I am loving her lots . :lovewings

I would let her discipline him.
She is making it very clear that he is doing something wrong and as a dog that is younger he should learn respect.
You are talking aggression in a# month old pup. Not a good sign.
He needs to be neutered, I start the protocol for leader ship.
So everything he wants or needs or asks for he must to a sit, or down or anything that he can do then he can be let out o pee or given supper.
I would also recommend that he get puppy school in a clicker manner so it soft and gentle.
Finally he was drawn blood which is not great at a young age. I would go talk to a behaviorist sooner then later.

Joy

Thank You
 

GREAT THREAD!!!

TJ has started to guard and be aggressive too! It started about 1 month ago. He was 10 months old. MY BF would try to pick him up off of my neck while he was sleeping and he would do a quick growl. Kind of like: "I AM SLEEPING, LEAVE ME THE F*&% ALONE!!!" The first couple of times were kinda cute, we would joke how TJ was 'cranky'. Well, TJ started to do this more often and he started to do it to me too, and then he would do a growl and then try to snap at you. NOT FUNNY! I try to talk calmly if I am going to move an disturb TJ. This has helped, but TJ is growling and snapping at others things...

1. TJ doesn't like toys, etc. that make strange sounds or move. He wants to KILL these things. He will growl and attack these type of toys, so I really try not to let him see or have any of them!

2. This past week he started to attack Roxy for her cookie. TJ has turned into the DEVIL...The routine in the morning has been the same ever since I got them back in May 2005. I won't go into the whole thing but, when I gate them in there room, I give them a cookie each so I can sneak off to work. Well, NOW...TJ wants his cookie and Roxy's cookie. He is focused ONLY on both cookies. He jumps and attacks and growls and bites Roxy, to the point that she SCREAMS (very strange to hear a dog scream, but she does). She gets sooooooooooo scared that she doesn't even want to look at the cookie in fear of being attacked. If I try to hold him back he starts to wiggle, growl and snap at me. ALL HE WANTS IS BOTH COOKIES FOR HIMSELF. And he lets BOTH OF US know he means business!

3. Special chew bones are the same way. I feel soooooooo bad for Roxy. She likes to have these too, and I want her to have them, for pleasure and to help her teeth, but TJ wants them both!!!

I have to get control of this DEVIL DOG!!!

I am going to check out and probably buy:
MINE! A GUIDE TO RESOURCE GUARDING IN DOGS, by Jean Donaldson

I hope this is a good start!

Any other suggestions are GREATLY APPRECIATED!

I like that you let him know your are going to pick him up that is great.
He is in his teenager stage, stay clam be firm but kind and consistent. This may pass.
I let my little one kill toys it helps as it gets the stress and need to beat on things out. If it controlled it is ok. These guys where breed to kill they need too and it is fun for them.
I separate them at treat time.
Try a kong two of them frozen with peanut butter in them. It will keep him working for a long time and may keep his mind off the other ones treat.
He is a push boy that needs a ton of rules. Protocol for leadership would be a good thing. Everthing he wants he gets by working for it first. He gets a cookie if he sits, He want to go out to pee he does a down, he toy he does a wait get it. He wants supper he learns to wait and sit till you say ok.
Boy needs more rules.
Classes be a good thing and gentle ones, this boy is going to need it slow and easy and gentle all the way. You got a minni my girl. She was that way and I blow it by training yank and correct and to hard to fast. Plus she was not lucky enough to have a good start your guy was you and a good start.
The ones that are the toughest and most pushy are the smartest. You have a smarty pants in your house. Put the brain to work.
One other book Click for calm be good got it on my self it by Emma ??
will have to go look it up and get back to you.

Joy

Most likely, you will only be able to order MINE!. I doubt you'll find it in a book or pet store. Check out Amazon or dogwise.com. But, it is well worth the effort. It will discuss location guarding. As far as the other things...

1) I think this is pretty common in terriers. Joey does it and I let him. Better that he destroys toys than other things! Behaviorists used to say not to let a dog growl in play (in tug-of-war or whatever). More recently, they are saying that there is absolutely no evidence that this behavior leads to aggression. I wouldn't worry about that aspect.

2) & 3) This is very common in multi-dog households. I'd separate the dogs with a babygate or door when they have treats or bones.

As I've previously explained, I'm not a fan of the dominance theory or alpha-rolling your dog. HOWEVER, I think you'd be wise to do some reading about leadership. The Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) program is a way of showing who the leader is:
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

"Leading the Dance" is another leadership program that's a bit more extreme (some say too extreme), but still worth reading:
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/dance.html

If TJ hasn't done any obedience training, NOW would be a good time to start!

OH, YOU 2 ARE WONDERFUL!!!

I know and agree with all you say. I must start now. TJ is a 'smarty pants'. He is very, very smart, this I do know. But he is also a little bugger, and then other times the perfect angel! He can be very, very calm, just sitting and waiting and watching. He has an excellent attention span, I am very amazed...BUT then he does go to the extreme opposite end to absolute DEVIL, like when he is obbessed with what Roxy has.

Then I have Roxy, who for the most part has NO interest in anything. She will sleep, she will come to you when you say: 'Come here'. I can place her down and she won't try to run away or I can yell stop and she will drop! When you hold her she is as still as can be, not a peep! BUT she too goes to an EXTREME. She get VERY NERVOUS! She still on occasion with my BF and always will 'new' people will do a submissive pee. When I go downstairs or upstairs and leave them behind, I look at her and say, "I'll be right back" and I am usually just gone for 5 minutes or less, BUT always when I return she has peed (in the litter box) or pooped (if she had to go). It's like she does a nervous pee or poop when she thinks I am leaving. Also, When I am making their food, TJ will just sit calmly, BUT Roxy is doing laps and barking like crazy! I put some change in a coffe can and it only took 2x of shaking it, but now Roxy NEVER barks while I am making theor food. Actually, they both were so terrified those 2x that they now wait in the other room until I call them into the kitchen to eat. But, Roxy will still bark like crazy under stress, like when I gate them in their room, she does laps and barks and barks, etc... She turns into a witch when we are going out for walks, I get them all ready and the whole time she is barking and barking and jumping on my legs as we are walking through the house getting ready, then when I am putting on my shoes, she is barking and jumping and now BITING me...And her thing is whenever I go to pick her up, I always repeat "up" a couple of times, but she likes to run away somewhere (to the side of the souch, or in her crate or under the bed) and she immediately drops and rolls on her side. She has been doing thins since day one when I got her (she was 6 months old then). This is very annoying, is this a game she is playing:
Run, Drop and Roll ROXY!!!

So, I think I will start by getting some books and educate myself. I am going away for 2 weeks (next Sat.) and my step father is watching the 2 of them, but when I come back, I will also check into taking them to a class of some sort.

OH, THANKS AGAIN!

Oh, boy! You have 2 at opposite ends of the spectrum, don't you? Roxy is anxious and easily frightened (as evidenced by the pennies in the can experiment) and TJ is highly intelligent and, possibly, over-confident. {Sometimes dogs who act aggressive are actually fearful. The number one cause of dog bites is fear, not "dominance"].

If you want to do MORE reading, you might read some of Turid Rugaas. She's written some books about dog body language and "calming signals". One thing you could try when approaching Roxy is to not tower over her. Turn sideways, avoid direct eye contact and "make yourself smaller". Crouch down to pick her up instead of leaning over her - it's less threatening.

I hope you're taking a FUN vacation!

PS. Nicole, you might also look at the info about the DAP Diffuser on this thread:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27853
It might be useful when you have to put her in her room, etc.

Yes, I do have 2 opposites for the most part. They do however, exchange rolls and it is quite interesting. There are times that is seems as Roxy is in completed control of TJ (he turns into a whimp). She will be chasing him around and around, attacking him and he is just going along with the whole thing, he rolls on his back so she can play and bite his neck, etc. Sometimes Roxy will get the Nylabone and TJ just lays about 5 feet away just waiting for her to loose interest in it. Sometimes Roxy will grab a toy and prance around and around taunting him and he crawls like a cat after her.

AND then the rolls reverse and POOR Roxy is being attacked by the devil.... :mad: