Using a spray bottle on chewie
 

Yeah, I've been sick last 2 sessions. I have cellulitis, and I was just too stupid to go to the doctor. It 's taking a very long time to clear up- finally healing.

Husband tells me about how they practiced the leave it command, something she knows how to do- but now being trained differently, which is put the toy/food on the ground saying "leave it...." And then, if she doesn't, spray her. Husband was shocked I was so upset about it. Why would that be a valid method of training? Any one?

I'm a fan of the spray bottle but not that way because that is not positive training. I would have scooped my dog up and left. That's just ugh. Hope you get better soon.

If I were you I'd look up the Google 'aversives in dog training' search links below to get some expert dog trainer opinions. Most positive-reinforcement trainers tend to think it's an overly harsh way to train any dog, let alone toy dogs, by suddenly spraying a shot of liquid in their eyes and up their noses. Why use that kind of training when positive-reinforcement creates only a win-win for the dog, a tasty carrot vs. an unpleasant stick? Which motive would you prefer if you're the dog?

A nervous or uncertain, timid dog could be adversely affected by aversive training that can startle, intimidate or scare them, causing them to sometimes develop fears and anxieties they never had before. And if the dog feels he's been treated unfairly during training, he can brown off the whole experience and become recalcitrant vs. always eager for positive-reinforcement methods. And sometimes with aversive use, the dog develops a resentment of the one administering them, never fully trusting the trainer as fully again, or associates their use with other things going on at the time they are administered, therefore forming wrong associations.

I've seen dogs traumatized by training aversives use so I just want you to know both sides of how some dogs react to their use. As you don't know how your dog will take the use of aversive training, why take the chance, especially when there are upbeat, positive fun 'leave it' training methods you know any dog will love?

13 Negative Effects of Aversive Dog Training Methods - Daily Dog Discoveries

https://www.google.com/search?q=aver...hrome&ie=UTF-8

P. S. Cellulitis is no joke so follow your doctor's advice and take good, good care of yourself, please. :):):)

Thank you, this is fantastic information!! Seriously, very thoughtful and it explains everything I couldn't put into words.

She IS a very nervous little gal. I am the only one able to handle her in this house. Meaning wipe her face, touch her ears, pick her up, pet her head from the front, all of that. She won't even follow any one but myself into the kitchen, it just scares her too much. Lots more to list but I'm sure you get the general idea. I dropped some chocolate from my husband's trail mix a few hours after this post this morning. I said, leave it, and she jumped-yelped- and ran. Tail was tucked under for a bit, too. So, yes, I'll be talking to our trainer. She's excellent and never steered us wrong before. However, she's wrong with this. And- thank you, for your kind words, too.

I think the squirt bottle works very well for somethings like with Callie she would grab onto pants legs and it was dangerous and nothing else worked of course I'm not spraying her in the face but one squirt and say no. With two puppies that get overly rough when wrestling it works well to. I prefer the squirt bottle to shaking a can of coins which has been linked to why dogs are scared of loud noises. I don't think baiting a dog and then squirting them when they go for it is a good idea. My trainer used distraction persay to that. We would walk close to the treat and when they went for it we would say leave it and then do come come come in a fun high pitched voice. Obviously with certain dogs certain things wouldn't be ok. Loud noises scare Penny so when her and Joey get rough the water bottle works well without completely terrifying her.

If it works and hasn't intimidated Callie or broken her trust in you for spraying her out of the blue, it's your choice to use it and, besides, it's not like you're spritzing her right in the eyes and nose. Callie's a bigger-sized dog and she likely takes it in stride, as can even toy dogs with no small amount of self-confidence and trusting nature. I just wanted JennaPenny and any other readers that might be interested to know that spraying a dog right in the face for training them not to do something isn't always that helpful if it scares or intimidates them. Tibbe was almost feral when I brought him home, trusted no human, shrieked/screamed, bit at me and ran, hid at the drop of a hat and had to be handled with nothing but positive reinforcement. Everything in the house intimidated him. He was even scared to come to me!

I taught Tibbe to "Leave it" by simply putting a treat on the floor before him, saying "Leave it" when he went for it and putting a flat palm up between him and the treat. It stopped him in his tracks, he looked up at me, I gave him an expectant expression, kept my palm up between him & treat, waited a few seconds and said "GOOOOD leave it!!!!" in the merriest voice possible, instantly sticking a treat in his mouth and scratching the base of his tail, smiling as big as possible!

He thought he'd just won the lottery! After he'd scarf his treat and look up at me so happy with himself, I'd then say "Take it!" and point toward the treat he'd left on the floor and when he took it, I'd say "GOOOOD take it!!!" and treat him for that, with more smiles, scratches and happy times, often lightly happy-clapping my hands for emphasis! He quickly learned that doing each trick was super fun, he got treats(which were just his kibble due to his sensitive tummy back then) and made mommie insanely happy and proud of him so he learned both tricks at once and nothing I did during the teaching of either trick shocked, upset him or made him worry about what I might do next, which was the best way to handle my nervous little guy.

Yeah I don't think one method works for all dogs some learn one way and some learn the other way. I haven't used it on Callie since she was a pup but I use it on the younger two when their wrestling gets out of hand. I go for like the hip/back end area when I spray. It's funny they all learn differently. Joey likes training but you have to make it fun or he gets bored. He wants lots of verbal praise and rubs sometimes more then a treat. My trainer also suggested when working on something hard or not completely gotten yet always end with something they know of do well to end it off positive. This was Joey doing a big leave it at his training place. Sorry I had to share.

I'm so glad Callie wasn't intimidated by the spraying and now obeys you, whereas some dogs would psychologically suffer trust issues if they thought you were so unhappy with them you did something sudden and unexpected they disliked during their training. It's just a fact with some dogs so that's why positive-rewards training was begun, I'm certain. Thankfully, your dogs don't have any of those issues!

Just for the sake of readers who want to read more about it, positive-reward training, when done with enthusiasm and fun, can essentially create a dog that is reflexively programmed to obey you every time without thought and sees obeying you as a big ,big win vs. getting sent a no-nonsense message he's misbehaving, usually a downer for many dogs. "Leave it" positive-reward training worked so well for Tibbe. When he would nip at my socks, show an unhealthy interest in an electric plug, went for something I dropped or even started to do something I didn't want him to do, I'd tell him, and occas. yell it, "Leave it!" or "Stop" in an upbeat voice and he couldn't back off fast enough in hopes of getting his reward and my praises, the occasional full party-time celebration. He got them. I'd be praising him mightily on our way to the treat box, him dancing expectantly along at my feet, so pleased with himself. Only once has he gone for a bit of meat I dropped but couldn't get "Leave it!" out B4 he was on it.

A month ago, he was on the front porch with me after dark and a stray cat flew from nowhere across the porch, Tibbe suddenly on its heels. I yelled out "Stop! Leave it!" and, you know what, he DID!!!! (That's the third time he's stopped chasing the cat at my request.) And he turned, came running to me for our party. Don't think we didn't celebrate THAT special moment with happy dances, me repeating 'What a BIG win - goooood boy!' praises, serial treats and back scratching, hugs. See what I mean - positive-reward training creates times of expectation of fun celebration and rewards in your dog vs. aversive punishment with your dog backing away from a spray feeling chastised/guilty/intimidated or you relying on using a tool that might not be available when you most need it?

What a darling picture!!!!!!! And talk about a BIG LEAVE - that's a doozy! Soooo cute. Wonder how many dogs are as well-behaved as yours, Taylor? Not so many or we wouldn't have shelters crammed with them. And all it takes is gaining your dog's trust and some good times training. Bravo!

It takes a lot of time and I was soooo worried he wouldn't do it lol

I'd trust your ability to get any dog to do anything you wanted. You've got good dog skills! Hope that photo makes the YT 2018 Calendar!!!! :animal-pa

Not cutting in on purpose- Jilly, I worked with the leave it command and then hoover last night. she loved every second of it, so I'm confident that she'll be good to go. Of course, duck jerky helps. ;). I was so upset, and thanks for those links, because I Fully agree, because I've always done positive reinforcement. I am one of those women, I love video games. I love Bitten and Teen wolf. I play a game called Red Dead Redemption from time to time on the console. Each time bitten, or teen wolf came on, she used to bark like crazy. Same with Red dead. Wolves, bark like crazy. She doesn't any more, and it only took two days. I used her favorite treats- suuupppper expensive Honest kitchen jerky treats to do this.

When people or that dog passes by the window, she now does the end of the puppy howl bark- where she sounds like she's back talking with this little drawn out growl. Positive reinforcement I've always been all for. Her potty training was long and drawn out, because the trainer wanted us to stop her mid stream or mid poo, and she wouldn't poop OR pee for hours after that happened- even when she was obviously going, so again, prime example of how praise and treats worked better, even if it was slower. So, thanks!!!

Telling them no when you catch them going potty in the house isn't wrong or negative training its just giving a correction otherwise they don't know its bad to go in the house. I have done that with all of the dogs I have had and the ones I grew up with. Then we would take them outside and if they had more they would go and we would praise sometimes they didn't get busted until they were finished so they didn't have to go again. Lots of people think they can yell at the dog later when they find the accident but the dog doesn't remember it then. I'm in a bit of a potty training nightmare with my youngest now. The old owners never trained her at all and I didn't get her until 8 months so its going a lot slower then my other two that I got as young puppies and we trained by 8 months. Its like you thing everything is going great for a few days then she pees and poos on the floor. My mom says its because my youngest will always be the problem child lol. I have had to cut three different collars off of her because she got them stuck in her mouth some how. She wants to eat dirt and rocks!

I won't yell at her or say anything after myself. I know she can't remember. When we were stopping her going, she literally wouldn't go for a long time. I upped her praises, to the point where it was clapping, fanfare, and treats. She hasn't had any accidents on the carpet in a month. Not urine. Poop, however, is a different story. I think, though, that she doesn't like peeing and pooping on the same areas. She'll do it maybe 75% of the time. My idea to put a new pad on the opposite side is working- so far, lol. knocking on wood.

I'm so pleased that she's training well. If made fun and the dog sees obeying as super-rewarding - a big win-win, they quickly grow to love their training sessions, the intense interaction with you and before long, she'll likely push you to work her. Dogs with trainers using positive-reward techniques are extremely eager and happy to work, find it very fulfilling.

Personally, I don't mind my dog showing reasonable instincts of greeting and territorial protection messages, barking and growling at passersby, whatever the species, to say, "Hey, hi, there, I'm here! By the way, you're on my patch here, just so you know". It's natural for dogs to love to communicate with others and their bark and growl are the only way they usually can do so. I usually indulge a 1 - 2 minute initial communication session.

As dogs get older and if well-trained, well-behaved, usually don't bark over a maximum of 60 - 120 seconds at a time unless there is a real problem in their minds, such as utility workmen setting up on the street and beginning to dig it up! Even then a well-behaved pet has learned our boundaries for barking, how to control himself and won't go nuts barking for minutes at a time; but still may bark or growl from time to time if people or critters linger within his line of sight or scent(his territory), just reinforcing his initial message of greeting and territorial notice. Eventually the savvy dog realizes the ones that concerned him have not actually approached his home or tried to enter it, relaxes and finds other things to do, checking back from time to time.

Frankly, I kinda like passersby to know I've got a very alert little watchdog in my home and no approaching it day or night will go unnoticed, so I gladly tolerate most territorial barking Tibbe finds necessary! I've come to trust his instincts. He learned the 'bark/speak' & 'quiet' commands quickly but I rarely have to use 'quiet' anymore unless the garbage collection truck or stray cats linger nearby longer than he'd like :D !

Trying to reply fast, might come back for a better reply. It's not the barking that bothers us so much; it's the physical reaction she gets. Case in point. Jack arse and his devil dog- 10 minutes ago. I'm still working on her reaction with this guy. he stopped while I was training her, had his dog Sit, then he STAYED BY OUR WINDOW and stared. I had to kneel down glare and say GET AWAY FROM OUR HOUSE. Meanwhile, poor sweetie. she was shaking like a leaf, snarling, growling, barking, and whining. We are certain her drooling episode a few months back was from him. She gets physically ill from this. She was barking a bit about 5 months back, but this guy is a different issue, and he causes her to do this each time. I've had her not doing it almost every time. He is just a different story. It's hard to watch. Back to seeing if she's okay!

Oh your pad training, I am outside training so it can be a little different.

Have you tried closing the window and closing blinds or something else where he can't see in and she can't see out. I remember reading out that guy in another post and he sounds nuts honestly.

Great idea. Sorry, I misunderstood thinking you were objecting to a lot of barking. Closing off her line of sight could very well begin to take the power of that image away, though she'll likely recognize their scented the moment they come outdoors and the cone of scent will get stronger as they draw nearer.

This is long but worth reading and considering some of the techniques to try to help your little one through fearful things or issues until she learns coping skills and you two form a bond and she knows she can trust you to keep her safe:

Trying to change her association to that scary neighbor pair's image and scent will be your next task but it's doable. I've told on YT many times about how Tibbe was near feral when I got him at age 9 mos., having spent that time according to the breeder I got him from, who'd been given Tibbe's breeder's whole kennel of breeding dogs to rehome. Tibbe was one of those neglected/abused dogs.

She told me that somehow she'd found out that Tibbe's breeder had neglected her dogs for the time Tibbe had been alive, keeping them outside in individual pens under an open-sided shelter(!) with basically nothing but food and water. So Tibbe's insecurities and fears all developed the moment he was taken from his longtime cage and suddenly thrust into the world and had to learn about rushing about inside cars, being 'trapped' inside a house, the sounds of TV's, doorbells, phones, A-C coming on, refrigerators, doors that opened & closed, strange people, etc. Everything panicked him to the point of drooling, shaking, running/hiding, screaming, fighting/aggressing toward anyone who tried to help him, walking in a semi-permanent crouched position and finally, just freezing, shutting down, tail clamped down to his body and staring ahead.

One by one, we worked in very short but frequent sessions of exposure to change his unpleasant associations with each thing he feared to something he could tolerate, then accept, cope with and finally, disregard. I used my presence, little eye contact, words or touch but just sitting alongside him and gradually offering him some Nutrical on the tip of a finger when he'd finally begin to shake less and relax even a bit. He was too nervous to eat much so he was always empty and eventually, the Nutrical appealed to him & he'd sniff and accept it when I put it in his mouth, often having to work his lips apart until he got the taste. I'd offer it 4 or 5 times and get up and take him away from the source of his fears and put him in his little 'den', a small airline carrier shell with holes here and there sandwiched between the den couch and the wall with the wire door left 3/4 closed so he could exit when he chose, never feel trapped. He'd go in there for refuge and feel safe from the thing we'd just confronted for however long he needed. Sometimes I had to tump him out and redirect him to vigorous baiting/play/challenges he was so comfy in there.

Enough repetitions of those types of short exposure with me beside him, a bit of tasty glucose to redirect his attention, up his blood sugar, improve his mood and then removal to his safe place began to teach him that whatever the terror, I would be there with him, usually fidgeting with the Nutrical or food to sort of distract him from his terror, eventually offer him some if he slacked from shaking, drooling, wanting to flee, momentarily, give him some more glucose boost and then whisk him away from the terror to his safe spot, where he was permitted to stay until he came out.

He eventually realized he didn't have to endure his terror alone or for long, was fed mood-lifting glucose the moment he showed any sign of less terror & shortly removed to his safe spot. Gradually, he'd take bits of food or offered a squeaky toy pr I'd challenge him to tugowar or handplay instead of Nutrical and we'd stay a bit longer B4 he was removed and slowly working up to longer times spent enduring his fears until he began to see there wasn't really anything to keep fearing and turned the terror into just a thing or situation he needn't react fearfully to. Using variations on this technique, he learned how to cope with fears and eventually, no longer feared his world as we worked through each thing/issue, inside and outside, sometimes taking from a few days to 6 mos. plus to get past each terror.

All the while we were reinforcing our bond and teamwork with fun obedience training with positive rewards and he began to learn he could trust me to ALWAYS keep him safe. enrich his life with activities/puzzles/games/challenges and he began to enjoy living his life, not fearing it. To this day, certain new or odd electronic sounds can send him out of the room but he bounces back within minutes. Illness or feeling poorly can exacerbate his fear reactions until he's vetted, treated, well again.

Oh boy I have a lot to learn! I'm getting my puppy on July 27 so I have time and these posts are a real helper!