Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4480457)

Oh, Rob, I'm so glad you are willing to try to help your sweet guy as so many would just give up on a little guy like this and some, as you know, would surrender him or have him put down! You surely love him to bits and I believe you can take firm but loving charge of him, show him with your firm but matter-of-fact & never scary/frightening training what is unacceptable and acceptable when he meets another dog out on the leash and once that's behind him and he's doing that well, can advance further than that in how to re-socialize him so he can be around dogs in a home setting, after further retraining/re-socializing him there. Those are a whole new set of training sessions.

Even after his re-training in dog socialization, I'd tend to keep a lead on him for quite some time in a home-setting when he's around other dogs until he's gone more than two years without trying to attack and if he can go that long w/out flexing up on another dog, it will show he's likely as predicable as any dog will be around any other dog in any social setting.

No, I'm no behaviorist or anything like that, I've just always worked with helping dogs since I was a teen, foster dogs and otherwise, many of them deeply troubled and learned what different things work to help them from my own experiences over the years, and read just about every book I can get my hands on, in print or audio, about canine behavior. You can, too. Read your local and other cities libraries out of all their canine and canine body-language books and scour your second-hand bookshops for dog behavior /body-language books that are not older than 20 -25 years(older than that they are usually so old-school that they aren't helpful) and you will learn how to help your baby and rehabilitate him. Read all you can about positive-reinforcement training, too. Lots of information is on the internet, too. Let me know if I can help in any way. Jeanie

Keep us updated on how he's coming along, won't you please? And good luck and blessings to you both. Jeanie

Originally Posted by windwalker (Post 4480547)

Yes you dog was attacked at one time and for that I am sorry, but to let your dog off lead when he can and does attack others by your own words is irresponsible.

Originally Posted by aladinsane33 (Post 4480550)

I have began his new training regimen today using chicken treats and walking in fast circle should he bark, snarl or take up a belligerent stance with any dog, certainly the swift nipping alpha style showed a result, the look of bemusement on his face said it all. I will indeed persevere with this approach. I will endeavour to keep you appraised of events as and when they begin to unfold, that is of course unless I am banned for having to reply to judge and jury, this as one subscriber has already suggested, that others, who may write in here, may well become. Jeannie, but seriously I really cannot thank you enough. Kind Regards Rob.

Originally Posted by windwalker (Post 4480547)

Yes you dog was attacked at one time and for that I am sorry, but to let your dog off lead when he can and does attack others by your own words is irresponsible.

Originally Posted by aladinsane33 (Post 4480550)

I have began his new training regimen today using chicken treats and walking in fast circle should he bark, snarl or take up a belligerent stance with any dog, certainly the swift nipping alpha style showed a result, the look of bemusement on his face said it all. I will indeed persevere with this approach. I will endeavour to keep you appraised of events as and when they begin to unfold, that is of course unless I am banned for having to reply to judge and jury, this as one subscriber has already suggested, that others, who may write in here, may well become. Jeannie, but seriously I really cannot thank you enough. Kind Regards Rob.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4482864)

And be sure to cross the street or keep a good distance between your dog and the other dog during rehab training as proximity of a perceived danger to themselves is a great anxiety/fear trigger to most anxious dogs and makes them want to lash out whereas keeping them far away during re-training will decrease the threat in your dog's mind and make focusing on that high-reward food just in front of his nose while walking in fast circles much easier on him.

As he begins to accept the presence of other dogs passing by him at a distance while being distracted by food and fast-walking in those crazy circles, gradually decrease the space between the dogs as rehab training progresses and increase distance again should he flex up on a dog again. Be sure to keep the initial re-training sessions very short in duration.

Originally Posted by shelbysmom (Post 4483243)

It appears that leash laws are different in the UK? Correct me if I am wrong? People are allowed to have their trained non aggressive dogs off leash, under their control. If I am correct, that means when your dog (the aggressive one) loses it because a "non aggressive" dog gets in his face, you and your dog are at fault even though yours is on leash. Right or wrong?

If that is the case it sounds like you need ways of dealing with dogs that get in your dogs face and I don't know what is allowed in the UK. I keep a whistle around my neck to scare away intruding dogs and coyotes :mad: You may also need to get a muzzle type lead. Again, I don't know your laws. I just did a little research because I was confused about how a person could be mad at you when his dog was the one that was off lead. Sounds like a difficult situation. Wish you the best.

Originally Posted by aladinsane33 (Post 4479948)

Well thank you for taking the time to compose your reply, to my post [that was a mammoth effort] thanks again [phew I here you say].


Ok, I see what your indicating and will indeed try this that you mention, what therapists in the UK call loosely 'distraction therapy.' Historically I have tried many distractions with him, but we do not live in the past, my Yorkie walks with me on or off the lead by my side, rarely in front, he is a wonderfully well trained dog and never until he was two years old following this attack had I, well my daughter actually who owned him then had this trouble. Toby lived with two big dogs and never troubled them or them him.


We walk to my garden allotment and if I can see well ahead of me I let him free from the leash, if he sees another dog I click my fingers twice and call toby 'sit' he does this no problem, and allows me to put his lead on, however should this other dog come past him or near him [even without invading Toby's self space] he will attack it, then I have the explaining to do.


Toby has been to professionals for help, and more than once, it is nearly seven years now that has elapsed since that attack] albeit the common mode of thought is they can do little for him. At one such school they tried training him to do things that were not alien to him insisting I stay away, which I had no problem with, then reporting he was/had no problem with basic training, and disattending other dogs .


No, no problem at all following basic commands, this little Yorkie picks things up so very easily and learns so very quickly but not when it comes to other dogs, despite what therapists assert he attacks them with a ferocity that would maim them and seriously I would never venture to pick him up when in confrontation with another dog, that would, depending on how things progressed, endanger me, as previously,actually this is what I did instinctively when that brute of a dog was roaming ownerless, it then attacked me when I was busy smashing it to an inch of its life to save my little Yorkie, one of the reasons why I would never have a retractable lead again as one forgets in such instances to snap it shut, then of course your tied in knots as Toby tries to evade this other dog chasing him.


He has not been /was not just physically scarred, more than 100 stitches in his back end and rear paws, a torn open nose requiring stitching, a rip across his tummy which endangered his life and needed emergency vetinary intervention but mentally too he is scarred, and hundreds of pounds spent on rehabilitation has not helped this little dog. Is it me, well maybe but he is the same when my wife or son takes him out, and really they have no where near the control of him that I have. Please read my other post[s] thread to see my ethos here in training Toby, even the best trainers who have wrote books have stated that retraining after dog attack is a long and arduous process, they are not kidding. Seriously if I were to give you this little dog, he is a [for want of better wording] a proper Yorkshire terrier [not a toy or miniature tea cup or anything else these breeders bring to the fore], he will teach you things, he finds a way of communicating his wants to you, there is little one needs to assume for Toby, this is notably one of the things absent in all other dogs I have had that endears me to him. It is not what I can teach Toby but rather what he instinctively' intuitively knows [which is the basis of all IQ tests]this is what makes him so clever, so bright a little dog.


On a separate note . These little dogs were ratters, as you probably know they were bred to kill rats in the mills in middle England widely rumoured but not known to be crossed with a Skye and Manchester terrier and inherently it is in their breed to kill rats and despite the different, for want of a better word 'nuances' of their owners buttons bows and the like, Yorkies, true Yorkie terriers cannot be prevented from doing what is innate in their breed, whether the smaller Yorkie type terrier tea cup or whatever will try and kill rats I do not know, but neither do I think these are true Yorkies either. Regards Rob

Originally Posted by Graneet (Post 4483400)

OH MY GOODNESS poor little guy. No wonder he is ready to attack. My papilon is like that. She wants to play but lets the other dog know whos boss. She ran out of our house after to big dogs a guy was walking. Shes a yapper and it scared them they growelled at her and she came home quick. But now shes afraid and is agressive to. But we got a yorkie and they play together. She comes running to check on him if he makes any unusual sound. But its not changed her agression to other dogs. I might try the chicken training sounds good. Hope the little guy gets better. Drivrs me nuts when people let their big dogs loose. Then say oh they wont bite . Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Unfortunately now my yorky fusses at other dogs to.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4483018)

Going great? You mean he's been acting more calmly around passing dogs as he focuses on the meat and fast-walking? If that's what you meant, that's wonderful.

You poor thing - no wonder your boy went into full frenzy mode when that huge dog came at you both - he's just begun training and this dog came belligerently into his private space, no doubt with his tail and ears pricked, hackles raised and without any attempted normal greeting of butt-sniffing or friendly signals - just barged up to your little guy. Thank goodness nobody was hurt. Sounds as if not too many people in that area obey leash laws or are afraid of their off-lead dogs hurting others or getting hurt, lost, stolen or run-over by being off leash and just taking off on a whim, as I'm pretty certain few of them are trained to stop and stay in place at the owner's command when off lead and as you say their dog does not either understand or obey the owners command, this incidentally is not true with Toby who [as long as there is no perceived threat would sit at first command, lie down with one gesticulation from me and roll over of his own accord, bring in a perceived threat and it all goes to the wall.

But it sounds as if things were maybe going great, he was learning not to go ballistic at every dog that passed by, until this episode and you two are still on track and can reset and start out again, this time with some behavior-modification skills having been learned by your little guy so he won't be that hard to get back into his training. Just remember to keep the sessions very, very short, frequent, keep him distracted and at a far distance from the other dog until he's accepting of them being nearby and passing as he's learning that not all of them are going to try to hurt him or you and once you no longer need the distracting chicken or circle-walking and then you can allow him to pass by other dogs more closely.