Advice on punishment
 

I have a 6 month old yorkie pup named Lick who is the cutest terror ever. I have had him since he was 2 months old. He is my first puppy, and I have been learning along the way. Unfortunetly, I spanked him and have raised my voice at him on many occasions when he does something wrong. Since reading many of the posts on this site I have come to the conclusion that I am handling punishment totally wrong. As of yet I have not seen any negative side effects of the spanking, but I can only think it is a matter of time. I spanked while housebreaking, but to date Lick is about 85% when using the pad and has no issues about going outside, in fact it is about his favorite thing to do, besides chasing my girlfriends cat around the house.
I guess my question is this: I am not going to spank or yell at Lick anymore, but what else can I do to make him realize he did something wrong? He is very headstrong and requires a lot of guidance and attention. He takes direction well at times and could care less other times. He drives me crazy, but I love the little stinker to death. Please help.

Chris

Not punishment, praise and reward
 

I am so happy that you have learned that you need to change how you are bringing up your puppy! You are to be congratulated for that! Welcome to YT!

Punishing your dog is futile. They really do not understand it. They do, however, want to please you. If you reward and praise your pup for GOOD behavior, then it's a lot more fun for both of you.

What particular behaviors besides potty training are you trying to change? Specifics can help us help you more effectively.

Let us know what we can help with!

Good Pup, Bad habits
 

Lick is really a sweetheart, but he rarely listens he knows there is something in it for him or I raise my voice. I didn't know dogs were so smart. I don't know if I will be able to get him to listen by being sweet to him after I have spent the last 4 months being so stern.
What I am hoping is possible is to end the blackmail cycle. Lick knows if I am holding a treat and will follow commands quickly. If I am not holding a treat or say something in a normal tone regardless of command, he takes his time. So far he knows sit, stay (for about 10 seconds), and lay down. He will sit most of the time but will not lay down unless I am in the kitchen were the treats are. I don't like to feel like I am blackmailing him to do a trick.
Some of his other behaviors are growling while playing with a toy, the cat, or when playing tug o war with me; eating everything, to include rocks and sticks while on walks; and jumping and playing on the furniture.
I have only been on this site for about 2 hours, but I now realize that I have great puppy and I need to guide and train him to be better. Strong arm tactics have had limited results, but I don't think they will work long term.

something you could try...do you have a doggie crate? If you do...

Lick pees where he's not suppose to. Firmly tell him no and put him in time out in the crate.

Consistancy is VERY important for dogs. How often is he taken out to do his business?

btw...Welcome!

Welcome to YT and I am thrilled you have seen the light :D We have a couple of really great members who are very involved with clicker training but they are not on right now but you might want to check this website out in the mean time.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/

Excellent! You have learned much already!
 

Chris, I am so impressed how much you have learned already! Nicely done!

You are right, it may take some time and patience to show your pup you have changed your style, but I am guessing he will catch on.Your puppy is still very young, so he should be able to change some of his behaviors pretty quickly. Let's take a look at each item:

Lick is really a sweetheart, but he rarely listens he knows there is something in it for him or I raise my voice.
It's OK to treat while training. As time goes on and your pup learns the behavior you are training him, you can cut back the treats to every other time, then fewer, until you are only praising. But a treat now and then only enforces that you love the pup and he is special. The important part is PRAISE. Every time there is good behavior, PRAISE, pet, treat.

So far he knows sit, stay (for about 10 seconds), and lay down.
That's actually a pretty good start! If you can get him to stay for 10 seconds, that's great. Release him from his Stay with a happy and chipper "OK"! and praise and treat. Then try for 12 seconds. Remember at this age the attention span of your pup is probably 10-15 minutes, so keep your sessions short and concentrate on one behavior each session. Praise praise praise. And try to work on COME. This one can save your dog's life.

Some of his other behaviors are growling while playing with a toy, the cat, or when playing tug o war with me; eating everything, to include rocks and sticks while on walks; and jumping and playing on the furniture.
Growling is not uncommon, and part of play. If you feel that your pup is getting aggressive, that's a different issue that we can cover later. Eating everything is also common, as your babe is teething big time. Offer other safe chew things. There are awesome toys out there. Jumping and playing on furniture is OK with some people, not with me. Make sure your pup has a nice soft bed that he loves on the floor, and he won't need your furniture. Train him with an OFF, assist him down, show him his nice soft bed, and reward/praise when he listens.If he is chewing on the furniture, get some Bitter Apple Spray. That'll stop him!

Strong arm tactics have had limited results, but I don't think they will work long term.
Again, CONGRATS! I am really proud of you! You are on your way to a happy and pleasant doggy relationship! HOORAY! :p

Well, actually, some doggies are a lot like people. Few people like to work for nothing. They like to be paid. So, once a reward system has been started with people, they will seldom keep working if they don't get anything for it.

Growling while playing is a normal puppy behavior and not to be discouraged.

All puppies will pick up anything and eat it if given the chance. You are there to remove it from them if it is dangerous for them to have in their mouths. Puppies seem to like sticks and rocks for some reason. It's kind of like when you were a child and exploring your environment and if you found a really neat rock and wanted to keep it. Your puppy has found a really neat rock and it's quite a find for him. The only difference is that he wants to chew on it because it feels good to his gums.

As far as jumping and playing on the furniture is concerned, do you not want him on the furniture at all? All I can say is good luck. Yorkies think what is yours is theirs, too. I suppose you could train them not to jump on the furniture, but to me that is part of having a yorkie. They seem to think they are part of the family and feel they have as much right there as you.

No real punishment
 

Thank you all for the advice. I am going to have to invest some time is looking this site over thoroughly.
To answer question, yes, I have a crate for Lick, and I have put him in it for infractions. He is so comfortable in it, instead of a time out, he usually just goes to sleep.
Overall, what I am getting is that there really isn't punishment, just redirection. All bad behavior is a training oppurtunity for the correct action?
From what I have read here, Yorkies seem to have a behavior all their own, and the general methods may need some tweaking for best results. I have a start for some retraining on my part, and more training for Lick.
Thanks for the help so far.

Chris

He's very cute! Now, in that picture, he is on your furniture and looks just as happy and content there as any yorkie I have ever seen! :D

I have never punished a doggie and I've had them from the time I was a very young child. Positive reinforcement will get you ten times further with a doggie than anything in the world. Punishment will only push a doggie away from you and break the bond between you.

LOL, too cute!
 

I am with Karen, though I was brought up in a household that did use punishment for dog training I learned the error of my parent's ways, and like this way much better!

I meant to say I don't let Wosie on the furniture unless I am sitting with her. I don't want her jumping down as she has already proven to me how breakable she is. So far she stays on the floor unless she is sitting in my lap. :D

Okay, 1st I have to ask are you Chris Man or Chris Woman. Because if you are a guy you sure are learning fast for a guy :D :D and if you are a woman great job for understanding you need to be retrained to understand the mind of a Yorkshire Terror. Your little guy sounds very typical and they can be a handful but with the right training they are a hoot and will bring you years of enjoyment.

The picture was taken before he peed on the couch, twice. Since then I have not let him on the couch unless he is in someones lap. I thought this was a fair comprimise. Also, he is allowed on the bed as long as someone is in bed to supervise him, and he does sleep with me. He has not had an accident in the bed ever, so I am comfortable with him there overnight. I do not like him playing with the cat on the bed though. That is what I am trying to stop by not allowing him on furniture by himself.

Perhaps it is time for him to be neutered? He may have started marking? Just a wild guess. I'm afraid I've never had a small male doggie, just big one's outside.

I understand the furniture problem better now. :D I suppose that could be a problem, though, because he sleeps on the bed and probably considers it his territory and right to play there.

Lick was just neutered. He is exactly the same as before when he was intact. I don't know if they actually did anything as he still has his "boys." I don't know if they just snip or if they remove, but he still exhibits all of the same traits he did when he was whole. I am at a loss. He has always been really energetic, which I like, and I thought getting him fixed would slow him down, but to date, he is still a little heck raiser.
To clear up any confusion from my name, I am a guy. I get made fun of all the time by my guy friends for having an "anklebiter." If they had any idea how many girls stop me to talk when I am walking Lick they would have one too.

Lol!!
 

Yup, yorkies are definitely chick magnets!!

Lick is a puppy, Chris, he will be a "heck raiser" for some time more! Some people say they begin to calm down around a year old. Having had 2 other yorkies before Wosie, I have to say I did not want mine to calm down, lol. I enjoy the antics, provided there is good behavior for the most part.

There are tons of posts here on potty training. You can go to the search function above and type in "peeing", or go to the Training thread and just browse. With your new-found positive reinforcement skills, you will hopefully have this problem solved in no time! :teethysmi

:thumbup: YES! You learn fast!!! :thumbup:

There is very little (some would say there isn't any) dog behavior that can't be addressed through redirection or positive training. I know it sounds like spoiling to you right now, but trust me, it works! You just have to change your thinking. :cool:

For every negative behavior, you need to put some thought into what behavior you want instead. Then, train that.

This may not be what you want but say, for instance, jumping on the furniture - teach him that in order to get on the furniture, he must sit first. When he does, give him a small treat, praise enthusiastically and lift him up. Practice over and over. Any time that he hops up by himself, say "off" and lift him down. He will get it eventually. At random times, when you aren't on the furniture and you catch him laying down on the floor (or wherever you want him to lay), drop a treat and say "good boy". Reward the behavior that you want to see more of.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with rewarding your dog for correct behavior. I carry small treats in my pocket at all times. This isn't blackmail on your dogs part. This is called "doing what works". He doesn't listen unless you reward him or yell? That's because he doesn't understand the English language. There's not a dog alive who understands a lecture. He can be taught simple commands and he knows from your tone of voice whether or not he has pleased you, but it may not be obvious to him what he has done that doesn't please you.

Go to the website that Cindy recommended. It will change your relationship with your dog completely.
www.clickersolutions.com

A good book is The Complete Idiots Guide to Positive Dog Training.

Feel free to ask all the questions you want!

Good luck and let us know how it is going!

There are a few other guys on here - Alaskayorkie is one. ;) If all else fails, I suppose you could use belly bands indoors. :D

I had read before that it takes time for the hormones to stop circulating after being neutered, so I did a search and that is correct. Here is an article I found. I hope it helps some:

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIP...ip_Marking.php

You are SO right! How funny! Take Lick for a walk along with some of these guys and just watch!!!

thanks for the help
 

I just wanted to thank everyone who provided information and guidance. I have seen some posotive changes in Lick and my relationship with him. He is happier and easier to train than ever before. Hopefully, with time, we both will be trained well. Again, thanks to all, and I will update with signifigant progress.

Chris

Great News Chris :) Just make sure you keep on checking in as you will learn a lot.

Thanks for the update, Chris! I'm so glad things are going well.

I'm the worst --

I see nothing wrong with giving your little puppy a light pat on the butt and telling him, "No no" in a stern voice when you catch him peeing on the carpet or doing something he shouldn't be doing.

A mother dog is more rough than this. I have noticed many mother dogs nip their little charges and get quite rough with them when they get out of line. And, of course, the little guys are up and running around the next second as though nothing happened.....but they are learning their pups what they can and cannot do. A mother dog instinctively teaches her pups skills they need to survive.

We are training out little guys so that they can live harmoniously with us in our homes. And, the sooner the training takes place - the happier everyone will be forever!!

You don't need to hurt a puppy - but you need to get its attention and make it aware of types of behavior that aren't acceptable.

This is always a controversial subject - but I do believe that there is a happy middle ground. Be stern with your puppy when he is bad - Never hurt him - but also don't be so sweet that he never gets trained.

I see people's larger dogs jumping on everyone all the time. And, the owner's apologize and say that they have been trying to stop this for five years. To me, this means that they have been discipling and yelling at their dog for five years for doing something that could have been stopped in a couple of days when they were a pup. Which is really kinder????

I may pat my puppy on his butt occasionally, but he has pooped on me, pee'd on me, chewed on my furniture, ruined some of my favorite things, and bitten me all over. Someone should tell my dog to be nicer to me!!!!!

I thought my brother-in-law was a little strict with his retriever puppy, but before that pup was six months old, it was the best, happiest, most playful, well behaved dog I have ever known. He rarely has to raise his voice to his dog anymore. It obeys the slightest command. And, this dog is wonderfully happy, friendly, and playful. It is the dream dog that we all want. Need to mention also, that he isn't too strict with it - it does get to run around and be a dog! Because this dog has been trained so well at a young age, it will be receiving less discipline than any other dog I know for the rest of its life.

I would never scare or hurt my puppy - but I am firm when I need to be.
This could well save its life one day - and, it will certainly make our relationship much more enjoyable for both of us.

Carol Jean

Carol Jean,

We are just going to have to "agree to disagree" on this one. Joey has never needed anything more negative than a stern "NO!", occasionally coupled with my standing up and turning my back on him for 30-60 seconds (for inappropriate mouthing). He is praised frequently for doing the right thing and I try my best to teach an alternate behavior when he is doing somthing I don't like.

I've found that he REALLY wants to please me. All it takes is making it clear what is is that I want him to do. A firm "no" is all it takes for him to figure out that a certain behavior isn't working. The minute he desists - "Good Boy! That's right! That's what I like".

Maybe my dog is smarter than most. But, I doubt it. Yorkies, as a breed, are so smart!

Yes, it's possible to train a dog using stricter methods. But why would you want to if you can accomplish the same thing in a positive way?

FirstYorkie - Yes - but please - when I say pat on the butt - I'm talking about the way you would walk over and pat your friend on the shoulder.
I am by nature a very patient, liberal - non-loud person. So when I say, "No no" in a stern voice -----it is me saying "No no" in a stern voice (not my sister, who would wake the whole town up!!) I don't even raise my voice. It's just the tone (like your stern "No") that changes. And, I'm not a strict person. I have always been told that I am the opposite ---to a fault.

I agree with you about praise - it is my favorite thing to do also. I love praising my dog..... and he gets a lot of it.

A couple of examples that I quoted in my post were ways I have seen other people successfully train their dogs. They were not cruel or mean to their dogs by any means. They were just guys with pups that weighed about 30 pounds more than ours do. And, my brother-in-law lives on a busy road - he had to give his pup a crash course on behaving - or it might have gotten loose, ran out into the street, and have been hurt or killed. This guy is a gentle soul by nature (he won't watch Bambi - it makes him cry) and now he has a well-trained, happy, playful year-old pup.

Can't say that I disagree with you at all. I think praise is the best way in the world to instill good behavior. But when my puppy pees on the carpet right in front of me - I just can't come up with anything nice to say to him right then. So, he gets a little pat on the butt, hears a stern "no no" and is taken to his puppy pad. He knows I don't like that.

Yesterday - he was going to pee on the carpet - looked up and saw me - quit peeing before he started and ran as fast as he could go into my office and pee'd behind a chair before I could even get there. I said, "You nitwit - you're driving me crazy!" Gave him his usual pat on the butt, and he ran back to the other room to play with my other dog like nothing had happened.

See - he is definitely learning that it is naughty to pee on the carpet (at least in front of me!)

Again - thanks for your reply.


Carol Jean

Great advice from everyone! I agree with it all ! I would only add that some people don't always know 'how' to praise their dog. Sounds silly but think about it. It really is important to reinforce this positive behavior coming from you!
Your dog listens to your voice inflection for everything, right? He knows when you are mad, you're using not just a loud voice but a 'low toned' voice too?..

So, to use a correct tone, he needs to know when you are really happy with him. Not just a ..'oh,good dog' and that's all...You need to USE your voice in a high happy tone..over and over...like,
"WOW! GOOD DOG, LICK. GOOD BOY! YOU ARE SUCH A GOOD DOG!!" and in a high toned manner. This way he will learn to associate your 'good' voice with his good behavior. and a treat too.
Good for you Chris for realizing you need to change things, and for coming here to YT...welcome. I hope everyone here has helped you.

SnowWa
I have avoided till now posting to this as I tend to get frustrated with this kind of trainnig.
I tend to loose my ability to post from kindness and in a tone that is respectful.

but will try--- there is a saying if a dog pees on the floor role up a paper and hit your self in the head, you missed something.
I believe that.
When my girl first came home she peeed, pooh and throw up on the floor and well. I cleaned it up telling her I was sorry for failing her and not listening that she did not feel well.
I have never spanked or patted a human kids but for failing to potty train.
I sure will not do it to my girl.
I started paying more attention to her signals and she now very clearly tells me by rattleing the blinds that she needs out.
I hate to think what a crash course in training would be as I am sure I loose all calm.
The only time I use No is if my girl is after another dog and leave it has failed.
Let me tell you it not a yell it is a firm and short in a male tone. A male voice tones stop movement in dogs where as female voice tones fire them up.
One reason I am off next week to train is to take the no out of it all the way.

"he is definitely learning that it is naughty to pee on the carpet (at least in front of me!) " Yes that is fear training at it best.
When he hides out from you or will not let you near him, then what??
Fear begats fear and then comes nipping and then comes well I will leave it at that.

Hug them, kiss them, guide them and they will follow.

Joy

Well said, Joy! And Paisleypup, you made a good point, too.

SnowWa, you said:
I see nothing wrong with giving your little puppy a light pat on the butt and telling him, "No no" in a stern voice when you catch him peeing on the carpet or doing something he shouldn't be doing.

My question to you would be the same as Dr Phil: "How's that working for ya?".

Judging from what you later said, I'd say it isn't working that well:
Yesterday - he was going to pee on the carpet - looked up and saw me - quit peeing before he started and ran as fast as he could go into my office and pee'd behind a chair before I could even get there.
and
I may pat my puppy on his butt occasionally, but he has pooped on me, pee'd on me, chewed on my furniture, ruined some of my favorite things, and bitten me all over. Someone should tell my dog to be nicer to me!!!!!

Someone should tell your pup to be nicer. Only you can do that and the best way to do that is by example. My pup doesn't do those things. And, he's learned NOT to do them strickly by redirection and praise/reward when he does the right thing.

I agree there's nothing positive to say to a dog who just peed in front of you. The time to praise and reward is when you catch him doing it right!

I agree and it does sound silly but this is where your little girl voice should come out in praise...high and babyish ...they need to know that you are happy :D

Sorry SnowWa, I am going to go with FirstYorkie and Yorkie Mum and Livingdustmops on this subject. I know your frustration. I have had a dog that even after years, refused to be completely potty trained. Was it my fault? I think it was for the most part. I used the methods you are still using and it didn't work. I have never lifted a hand even in a pat to my yorkie and she is smart enough to figure it out over time. Did I say 'no' to her? Sure, at first, but quickly found it not necessary after learning other methods to use.
Most dogs learn to 'indoor pee' out of 'spite and fear and upsets', unless there is a physical problem which you might want to check into. Males can also get infections, and I'm sorry but I also think that some dogs are smarter and some not so smart. I've had them all.