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-   -   Updates on Sadie's aggression. (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/234349-updates-sadies-aggression.html)

susan lynn 09-20-2011 06:24 PM

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time with Sadie and Bentley. My 2 girls do this but it is the youngest snapping and biting at the oldest. Usually for my attention. You are in my prayers that things work out for you and your babies.

Teresa Ford 09-20-2011 06:32 PM

My heart goes out to you, it is awful to see your own babies fight like strangers.

I think a time out helps to calm things down. And you may want to keep them separate when you are not with them. Face biting is scary. This seems to be a new behavior that is getting worse from what you wrote. You are doing the right thing by checking health, first. Perhaps your Vet can help you determine what happens next and who could help you with behavior modification techniques. If you could have them in your home that would be great.
I know you are expecting soon and need to get this resolved. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Hugs

RachelandSadie 09-20-2011 06:51 PM

i think a combination of vet check, walking her daily to wear her out, agility to make her feel confident and special, a leash on her to correct her instantly and pull her off Bentley and into a time out safe area, and lots more love and patience will help pay off in the long run. can't give up on my girl, i'd be the only woman in the house and we can't have that :p stressing over it won't help anyone. just take action and try to make this better.

107barney 09-20-2011 06:55 PM

Forget the vet check, you need a dog trainer - a good one. For now, I would take away all toys and make her work for everything. I wish I were closer, I would help you with her.

BanditSocks2 09-20-2011 07:00 PM

This is just a random idea, but did this start when you were pregnant? Do you think it has something to do with her sensing that?

Also, will your vet somehow be checking her hormone levels? The prozac idea seems like it would be helpful!

AllDogBoots 09-20-2011 07:02 PM

Rachel I am so sorry you are still struggling with this.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3672527)
Forget the vet check, you need a dog trainer - a good one. For now, I would take away all toys and make her work for everything. I wish I were closer, I would help you with her.

I completely agree with this. I am going to talk to my trainer and try to get some advice.

RachelandSadie 09-20-2011 07:41 PM

okay update. it's totally ME. it's something to do with me that's triggering her. i walked in the door tonight and turned away from her when she did her usual nutso greeting. the plan was to get a calm dog before greeting her. well instead of getting a calm dog i got a dog that ran around the house to find bentley and bark and attack him.

i'm the cause. now what do i do about it. right now i have her on leash and harness now so if she does aggress i can instantly stop it and give her a time out away from Bentley.

she's sleeping sweetly on my lap with Bentley close by us. figures!!

so it has to be the hormones. has to be the pending baby. and she doesn't do this with DH ever he says she's never done this around him alone and also it did seem to start around when i got pregnant. i'm the cause so that's at least a start.

now help me fix her and fix me.

Ringo1 09-21-2011 05:22 AM

Which dog was there first ~ Sadie or Bentley?

She might be 'resource guarding' and YOU are the resource she is guarding.

I would definitely keep them separated when you are not home and maybe when you are at home - until things calm down. I second the suggestion of a trainer. I like your idea of more walks to tire her out a bit. Can you walk them together to help build their bond?

IF no blood is being drawn - the fight is probably more noise and for show than anything else. But, still, it's upsetting and no one wants to live like that all the time.

I'd also start implementing NILF for Sadie ~ well both, I guess. Start teaching her some basic manners.

Nothing in Life is Free

dottiesyrky 09-21-2011 07:15 AM

Aggressive dog
 
How sorry I am that your dogs are having this problem, and very scary and concerning for you too. Does Sadie only go for Bentley or had she ever attacked people??
My little man started being aggressive in certain situations (mainly getting in his space, shoes and feet when they get close, and when he is resting or sleeping) after we moved and also he had eye issues. (A lot of upheaval and trauma for a little dog) We had him vet checked as we thought he may have a serious issue, but nothing turned up. He is a lot better now and we try to avoid the bad trigger situations. It appears to stem from fear and lack of confidence. We did try a trainer, but that did not help much and tended to make him more aggressive once she left. She used the treat method and he liked that and he would only then react well with us for treats.
It seem though that in your case it is the alpha dog syndrome and usually dogs sort it out among themselves, but if they are really tearing each other apart that is not practical or safe. Putting him on a leash is a great idea so you control the dog and his actions before they get serious. If you are not around, separation seems the only safe thing to do. I put my dog on a leash for a while when he was at his worst and that did show him I was the alpha and he could not do whatever he wished. Perhaps you have to be the alpha on the house over BOTH dogs???
It is a complex issue, but I am sure you will figure it out and that you will be able to keep Sadie. I know I was desperate and thinking of rehoming, but had to deal with it as he needed eye surgery. But I found that time and observation and home training and establishing boundaries have made the aggression minor now and I can deal with it. Hopefully he will calm down with age. (He is 2.5 yrs)
Good Luck and let us know what works!

BabyGirl Rosie 09-21-2011 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 3672559)
okay update. it's totally ME. it's something to do with me that's triggering her. i walked in the door tonight and turned away from her when she did her usual nutso greeting. the plan was to get a calm dog before greeting her. well instead of getting a calm dog i got a dog that ran around the house to find bentley and bark and attack him.

i'm the cause. now what do i do about it. right now i have her on leash and harness now so if she does aggress i can instantly stop it and give her a time out away from Bentley.

she's sleeping sweetly on my lap with Bentley close by us. figures!!

so it has to be the hormones. has to be the pending baby. and she doesn't do this with DH ever he says she's never done this around him alone and also it did seem to start around when i got pregnant. i'm the cause so that's at least a start.

now help me fix her and fix me.


OMG! We were having a similar problem with Rosie and Mikki when DH comes home. As soon as he would come home both girls get really excited. And then Mikki would go at Rosie for no reason at all. Then of course the fight was on because Rosie does not back down.

We have stopped it by having DH pick up both of them at the same time as soon as he comes in. That way they both are getting the attention at the same time. Before he would let them spin and bark while talking to them. That was giving them to much time and Mikki the opportunity to get her cheap shots in. Now, they are calmer because he picks them up immediately.
This seems to have worked for us. Just an idea!

Teresa Ford 09-21-2011 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3672527)
Forget the vet check, you need a dog trainer - a good one. For now, I would take away all toys and make her work for everything. I wish I were closer, I would help you with her.

:) God love you Kathy, right to the heart of the problem.
I try not to give detailed advice about aggression on line. There are just too many veritables. A trainer needs to see what the trigger is. What is the body posture, lip licking, is the tail tucked, or stiff barely moving or what. Is the body stiff, trembling, held high or low and what are the ears doing and so much more. I try to suggest a trainer because I know they can back up and look from things from an unemotional point of view.
The mom in me wants to run in and fix it, so I have curb myself. When I was having problems with my own Gracie, I had to get another trainer to come over and watch us. I couldn't put my emotions aside. I even had a handler tell me to do the Alpha roll ! Geeze I have used that since the late 70s ! I tell everyone when in doubt go to the professional, if it is a health problem go to the Vet. If it is a behavior problem, get a trainer. I really feel for OP she is a very loving person I can tell.

RachelandSadie 09-21-2011 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo1 (Post 3672749)
Which dog was there first ~ Sadie or Bentley?

She might be 'resource guarding' and YOU are the resource she is guarding.

I would definitely keep them separated when you are not home and maybe when you are at home - until things calm down. I second the suggestion of a trainer. I like your idea of more walks to tire her out a bit. Can you walk them together to help build their bond?

IF no blood is being drawn - the fight is probably more noise and for show than anything else. But, still, it's upsetting and no one wants to live like that all the time.

I'd also start implementing NILF for Sadie ~ well both, I guess. Start teaching her some basic manners.

Nothing in Life is Free


Sadie was the first dog. She's been here since she was almost 8 weeks old (my stupid mistake i'm still paying for)

Bentley came in at about the time they were both 10 months old and they were fine until i got pregnant. we're pretty sure this all started about the time i got pregnant so it's totally hormone/stress related from me.

gidget529 09-21-2011 09:59 AM

I think sometimes dogs react to pregnancy in their pack. My sister had a lab mix (male) who got very protective over her during her pregnancies. She did not have another dog in the house, but he got real funny about her being out of his sight. He would be very anxious/pacing. He seemed to want to "supervise" her interactions w others. After the baby would come, then he would transfer it and be very overprotective of her AND baby.

kjc 09-21-2011 12:02 PM

Sorry to hear you are having this problem again. When Peek a Boo was doing this, the only way I found to begin to stop him was before he made contact with his intended victim. It usually occured in my bed, when he and anyone else was there too. Once he made contact, he was in another zone and wouldn't respond to me at all.

Part is resource guarding, and the other part was that I was not being Alpha enough and he felt the need to control situations. When I began doing the controlling, his aggressiveness subsided almost completely.

I put everyone on the bed and waited for him to react. I noticed he would stare at his intended victim and freeze, just seconds before he launched his little body to attack. Well, he launched and I grabbed him out of midair, told him 'No' and placed him back on his pillow. We did this a few times till he figured out that I really was one step ahead of him, now I only have to glare at him to get his full attention.

Maybe instead of ignoring Sadie when you come in the door, try making her 'sit' and then reward her, or tell her to go get a toy and interact with her positively. It sounds like she's frustrated and is using Bentley to get her frustrations out.

I found out also with Peek a Boo that his attacks would increase in frequency whenever he wants more attention from me and doesn't get it. I figured this out by accident, as telling him 'No' had no effect, so one day I just did the opposite and picked him up and held him and gave him some undeserved loving. His attacks stopped completely, until he felt neglected again. So now I make a point of giving him some extra attention, above and beyond our normal day to day interactions.

Hope some of this helps you...

RachelandSadie 09-21-2011 03:06 PM

reading at www.dogsandstorks.com for extra advice per my trainer. she's also researching methods to help calm and sooth a frustrated dog dealing with anxiety over the hormone changes in pregnancy. we're working on it lots. so far the leashing and time outs are what we're using. going to start crating them seperately at night as part of a new routine and also giving them "dog space" for time alone in their own crate space.


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