Invisible fence doesn't work anymore
 

Finn (3-year-old Yorkie) no longer stays within the invisible fence. It's been about two years, but he has figured out that he can shoot through with only a short shock. We live near a horse farm, so he simply goes nuts, barking constantly and running through the countryside. He stands near the door and waits for someone to come in and bolts out.

Last week, he literally ran around and barked constantly from 8pm until about 3am...it was unreal. This is the most obstinant, stubborn, untrainable dog I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's my mother-in-law's so I can't 'crate' him. Until recently, the only way to get him to come was for my mother-in-law to get in the car and start it up (she takes him everywhere she goes)...but now he won't even come for that.

Is there any way to slow a Yorkie down? At this point, I'm praying for animal control to pick him up. I certainly don't want to be the bad guy and take him to a humane society farm, but I can't take any more.

Help?

You'll have to spend a lot of time training and most likely bring a trainer in too. There really is no easy answer here. You can try the squirt bottle of water, pennies in a can, etc. but they don't work for all dogs.

The invisible fence has some flaws, 1) doesn't keep other animals out/these animals can easily hurt a Yorkie, 2) obviously doesn't keep Yorkie in and thus is a totally unsafe system, 3) you are using shocks to train which, in the opinion of a lot of us here, is not okay, 4) Yorkies shouldn't be outside unattended in most circumstances anyway. So between 8pm (or whenever it was) and 3am, he ran around the house barking? What was done to stop him?

hmmm....Are you for real???

How much does this Yorkie weigh??? Is he neutered??? Males that are left intact have "urges" to run for females in heat...

I think it is VERY unsafe for a Yorkie to be "allowed" to run free thru the fields/farms, etc...He could get seriously hurt, or killed or attacked by another animal...

I suggest that you put an expen around the door area, so he CANNOT slip thru when the door is open. Here is what I have, it opens up and you can "block off" areas (like the door)

Walmart.com: North State - Superyard XT Portable Playard & Gate: Gear

Now for when he should go outside. Can someone take him for a 20 min walk everyday ??? With him being in a harness and leash????

Or can you build an outside pen for him to play in when it is nice outside?

...again, if this is for real, he SHOULD NEVER be allowed to slip thru the door and run free outside...PLEASE use more caution :(

If ya live out in the country... I totally get where you're comin' from. Country folks are different when it comes to their dogs. We live on 3 acres with 90 acres of farmland behind us, including horses, pigs and chickens. My stepdad and mother had a dog (a cockapoo) that was always just a "farm dog" per say. She had free roam and was often let outside and she wouldn't wanna come back in... so they would just leave her outside when they went to dinner, etc. NOT my way of raising a dog and it was very aggravating, but it's just the way farmers do it. She was still very much a part of our family though... and she ended up getting hit by a car. It's just not a good situation when you're leaving your dog off leash unattended.

I agree with posters above ^^ that neutering (if he's not already) would help. Training!!! I can't say that enough. A trained dog is a happy dog. Just basic sits, stays, come and down would be super useful in your situation.

I allow Jackson some off leash time in our farmfields in the back, which are far from the road, but only during the day when I'm 100% watching him. He became a bit more daring after he turned a year old so he hasn't had the freedom. I've been working with him on a 50 foot training lead I got from eBay (It was, like, $15) but a simple rope from Lowe's or Home Depot would do. Keep him on a long leash so that he gets some room, but is still safe. With this leash, you can also practice the "come" command. Let him go out the full 50 feet and then say "come" and always give a good treat when they come back to you.

I do believe that invisible fencing has it's place and for some dogs, it may work. But often times w/ terriers... they see a rabbit and they're gone. They don't care what shocks them. And obviously, it's not working for you anymore.

Just remember... it's typically NOT the dog, but the HUMAN behind the dog. Clearly the dog has no boundaries, rules or limitations which needs to be enforced by the human. If you really want it to work, training, leadership and consistency will have to be put in place. If you really think you can't handle this dog, find a reputable rescue to take him... Animal Control may just put him to sleep.

Good luck.

He is neutered. He wasn't allowed outside all that time. He waited and bolted out when my daughter came in...He's diabolical!

There was no way for us to catch him. He's too fast, and won't come...even when offered steak!

I like the expen idea....sort of a double-lock system. I'll try that! Thanks!

I personally don't have the time to train him...but am not in a position to demand that he be gotten rid of....you can probably deduce what ihy stands for, but I don't want anything bad to happen to him.

Thanks again for the advice.

If you give the dog up, please make sure that it goes to a rescue or no-kill shelter.

In answer to the training comment... I mentioned that I don't have time to train him, but I do try when I have a chance. I taught him to lay...but he only lays when he thinks there's a treat, and only when he's hungry. So, if he's not hungry, he doesn't lay.

He sits, turns around, stands...all for treats. I was once told that to prevent a dog from barking constantly, you have to teach him to "speak" for a treat. However, he just won't do it...looks at me blankly. Our beagle speaks on cue...even when no treat is out. I tried showing Finn how Mikey gets a treat for speaking....over and over again.

Also, how do you teach him to come? If we can get that one, our problems will be solved.

Thanks!

?ihy?
 

:confused::confused:Does IHY mean I HATE Yorkies? I sure hope that isn't the case. Clearly some dogs are more difficult than others. If you can't or don't want to deal with him, tell your mother in law, or who ever is the owner, how you feel. It's not right to have a dog forced onyou. It isn't fair to you OR the dog. Good luck to both or you.

Blue Belle gets the prize.... No I really don't hate Yorkies....they're cute. But this one....yikes! Everyone in the extended family, east and west coast, feels the same - that this dog is simply the most stubborn anyone has ever seen.

So this dog has learned 3 or 4 tricks from a person who doesn't like him... and he is the most stubborn, untrainable dog you have ever seen? If that's the case, you've been obscenely lucky until now.

Of course the dog is only going to do tricks for food. That is how dogs are. After they've learned the trick, you can give them food at random intervals, and then eventually they will simply do it from habit. It's not a short process.

Also, lots of dogs have trouble with the Speak command. He probably doesn't understand what you want. Why do you assume that he is defying you?

To control barking, just try putting some pennies in a can, and shake them whenever he barks. I don't know if that will be effective since he is not your dog and he will need to be trained consistently, but most dogs learn to be quiet very quickly, so you may be able to do it in one visit.

I get the impression this dog's needs for training, attention, exercise and LOVE are not getting met. And for that matter, safety. What if a coyote comes INTO the yard, what good does the invisible fence do at that point?

Finally, as opposed to Speak, the Come command is VERY easy to teach. Why don't you teach him that one? There are lots of threads here on how to teach that one.

Here are a few really good Yorkie Rescues in your area:

Rescue Me Yorkie Rescue

Welcome to Save A Yorkie Rescue, Inc.

Yorkies Inc. Placement Service

Aversive training methods should only be used in conjunction with positive reinforcement. That's why methods such as shock collars or invisible fences don't work forever. Eventually the dog gets use to the discomfort, and does what he wants. I believe you'd be better off building a real fence. I think you are expecting way too much from this dog.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll respond one-by-one.

Attention/Love: Grandma (his owner) talks to him all day, sleeps with him, takes him for drives. She's with him constantly. I pet him all the time and play fetch with him a lot. (btw, I only taught him to lay)

Exercise: He gets tons of exercise...even now that we have him on a run line, he runs back-n-forth....barking....a lot. And my daughter takes him for walks on the lead.

Come: I and everyone else have tried teaching him to come. He only comes when there is something in it for him. We all use either treats or petting. When he doesn't want to come, he'll start to come, and then run away....it's all a game. Like I've said, he has even stopped coming for the van when Grandma starts.

Defiance: Whenever anyone corrects him (with standard one-syllable commands such as "no"), he will poop somewhere strategic. My brother-in-law (in Oregon) once wouldn't let him out (they live in a suburban neighborhood), and Finn poop on his pillow (on his bed) 5 minutes later!

Barking: He doesn't bark much inside at all oddly enough, even when there are strange occurrences or sounds outside. It's when he is outside that he goes nuts.

The dog is smart, figures things out....and knows that he's got us licked!

Yes, you must teach a dog to come to you. You do this with food. Some dogs are not food motivated, so you use praise and/or toys. However, most dogs respond to food, and from what you've said, this one does too. You teach them this command inside the house, with minimal distractions. You gradually move to the outside, and teach them greater self control until they come to you in all circumstances. You never call a dog to you for correction - returning to you should always be a positive experience. This was the first command I taught my dog, and several years later, I still treat him when he comes.

Dogs enjoy being chased, so you should not chase after him. Instead, turn around and run in the other direction so he will chase YOU.

Some dogs can never be trusted off leash, but it doesn't sound like this dog has had proper training, so you can't make that determination at this point.

As for pooping - maybe the dog wanted to go out so he could poop.

A professional trainer will tell you, it is NEVER the animal's fault. You are smarter, you are bigger, and you have opposable thumbs. It is the HUMAN's job to teach and manage the dog.

It really sounds like your family needs to read up on basic positive training for dogs. You are describing barking, potty training, and running around as if these are extraordinary behaviors never before seen in the canine world, when these are basic challenges dog owners work on every day. I'm surprised you said you have a beagle, as they are famously difficult to train to Come - they are slaves to their noses.

From what you've said, it sounds like this dog maybe does not get regular structure and discipline from his owner, and then there are a bunch of relatives who don't like him, and are not training him consistently either. Poor doggie.

Haha - I'm obviously not painting a very accurate picture.

The beagle was easy to train, using the same techniques we have tried with the Yorkie....and I've had success training other dogs using the same techniques. Trust me, we use positive reinforcement and simple commands such as "no" when discouraging unwanted behavior.

He's getting proper training, love, exercise, etc.....he's just obstinant. Perhaps dogs have disorders as humans do. Just frustrating.

I do like him - he's cute. Don't take my screen name to heart - I do have a sense of humor. If I didn't like him I wouldn't be registering on a forum where the experts are. For the most part, we've done everything you've suggested (except the pennies in the can, and the expen).

Perhaps you've just been lucky enough not to come across such a dog as Finn.

Well, I'm sure all yorkie owners will agree with you on that, yorkies are very obstinate, determined, stubborn, and pigheaded, more so, than any other breed I've had; that's one of the things I love about them! Most breeds really want to please you, and have no problem with the human being the "master". Not true with yorkies, you have to outwit, outsmart and outplay them, and for most of us, this is too hard, and it's just easier to build a fence. They are trainable; at least that's what I've heard. :D

Sounds like this little guy might benefit from NILf training. NILIf stands for "Nothing in life is free". You'll find an intro here: Nothing in life is free - NILF - dog training - Article on Pets.ca and if you search for "NILIF Dog Training" you'll find tons of articles and opinions on the subject.

It sounds like he is a little rascal, and I hope you work everything out.

When you fetch, are you just throwing it back and forth, or are you in control? Are you making him "drop it", "sit", "stay", and "go get it"? If he is always in control, he will feel like he always HAS to be in control (alpha).

I sort of got the impression that it may have gotten to the point where Grandma was "starting her car" just to get him to "come" - is that true? If so, then he has learned that the starting of the car IS just a game (and therefore, no longer necessarily means he is going anywhere). In any case, it appears to me that "Come" is now just lost on this kiddo. Completely confuses him and doesn't really mean anything - which makes sense to me if his commands, overall, are unclear to him.

I'm not quite sure about revenge pooping :rolleyes:, but that's interesting. If there is such a thing, that would be yet another sign of alpha behavior - and again, he is feeling like he has to be in charge...this is a lot of pressure for him.

The barking - again, alpha and confusion and boundaries. He is trying to protect territory all by his little alpha self - so barking his head off makes perfect sense to me - he feels unsafe and feels a lot of pressure. When he is inside, he probably feels more equipped to "handle" the smaller territory, so he doesn't bark as much.

Dogs need clear and consistent messages, they don't speak English, they speak dog. If you want to learn to speak dog, I'd recommend Tamar Gellar's "The Loved Dog" :). This fella will do fine if you communicate using his language.

Hmmmm....what other species does this remind me of...what is IT....??? OH! I got it! HUMANS :D.

Okay, maybe I am missing something. I admit I didn't find it all that hilarious when you said you wanted to drop him off at the humane society.

I don't really understand how someone who has trained dogs before - and has a beagle - can make statements like, "he only does tricks for food", or "he just stares at me when I try to teach him speak", or "he doesn't come back to us when called." Again, I can only guess that the other dogs you've worked with were both brilliant and angelic.

Please also consider that this dog could be attacked by a larger animal while outside, even if successfully confined by an invisible fence.

Thanks WyliesMom for the insight, Nancy1999 for the link, and JenniferLeigh for letting me know that I am not alone! :)

QuickSilver. I do apologize...I realize now that going on a Yorkie forum with the name ihy was probably not the best introduction. Can I rephrase that to I Hug Yorkies? ...and by Humane Society, and meant a place that could find him a more suitable owner. I do feel inadequate however much I am trying to get through to him.

So WyliesMom: A suppose the trick is to establish someone else in the house as the alpha? I suppose that will have to be Grandma as she spends the most time with him. Perhaps my daughter can go out and walk the perimeter with him to show him that things are "okay" out there. I certainly don't want to break his spirit, but perhaps we just need to rein him in a notch or two.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Grandma, although it would probably be easiest. He just needs to learn what his place is on the totem pole. For my dog for a time it was me, him, the grass, sky, and all living creatures then all the humans in the household. When they tried to correct him using other methods than the one I used he just wouldn't listen. I had complains for weeks that he just wouldn't listen to my parents. Now he knows my family comes first (although he has preferences) and then comes the dog. Whatever you decide to do, you all need to be on the same page. Corrections don't have to be "no" it can be pennies in a can, a clap, "uh-oh" or something else. Since come has no meaning, find a new word and try again. Whatever it is everyone in the household has to use it. When my parents didn't follow my rule, my boy had no structure, and he got into mischief.
Good luck!

How much time do you spend with him? The person who should be taking the lead on training is the owner. I'm not sure how much effect a visitor can have, although perhaps you can impress the MiL by teaching him something and convince her to work on his behavior.

Here's a practical suggestion for the nighttime barking: ear plugs. Works great with crying babies on airplanes too!

You're right!
 

I think you are right, this dog is obstinate. Some want to please, some want reward and some want their way. The last appears to be him. You are stuck trying to take evasive action to keep him from escaping, and he will have to wear a leash when outside even if it is long. It does give you a chance to keep him safe, at least. Good luck, you are going to need it.;)