Pinch Collars
 

Lexi just finished puppy kindergarten. She is quite a puller on her leash.
The Training school uses pinch collars and was willing to order one for us. I searched your forums and found most of you are against these collars.
Our training center has vets on staff and one of our trainers is also our vet tech. They do not let us use harnesses. They will not let us use chokes. They are saying the pinch is safest when used correctly and regular collars can cause more trach damage on a puller.
I am so confused!

I am sure you will get mixed comments about the pinch collar. Toby is only eight pounds but as his trainer said: He had the Nepolean Complex

Toby was very aggressive with other dogs regardless of their size. We worked with a gentle leader for the first 14 weeks and he was still having aggression episodes. She put the pinch collar on him and his whole attitude changed! I never pulled enough to hurt him and I tried it on my own wrist and pulled and it was not painful at all. Of course Toby being in full coat, the hair was a real pain in putting the collar off and on but by the end of the first day of wearing the collar, he was a changed dog. He went through the last obedience class of eight weeks not even wearing a leash and I was able to leave him in a room with "big" dogs and he never broke his command to sit/stay/down. AND no more aggressiive action towards other dogs. He just laid there between a huge German Shepherd and a Dobie on the other side, never making any aggressive moves or looks at them. So while some may not agree, the pinch collar gave my Toby (whom I absolutely love and adore) the attitude adjustment he needed. JMHO

Ooh they look lethal! I know for a fact they're not, it's the first time I've heard of them and I've just read up on them, they seem quite effective on pullers xXx

Hi. I have never used a pinch collar, so I can't make any suggestions. However, I did want to mention that Victoria Stilwell is strongly against them. She had one episode where she had people using pinch collars put them around their NECKS, rather than their wrists, and they said it was an extremely unpleasant sensation.

This probably sounds judgmental, but it is not intended to be.

I will continue to research
 

Our class of 10 dog owners asked many questions about the collars. The Vet tech expressed more concern over "pullers" and regular collars causing trach damage. Several of the people there came the following week with collars on their larger dogs ( they received special training on how to use them) they told the class the difference it made. I do not believe that anyone of those trainers would encourage us to hurt our dogs. Many of them are involved in pet rescue.
Yes they look terrible and we thought we would never even consider it, but I am trying to keep an open mind and do my research. They do have one special for Toy Breeds. Our dog is 5 months and weighs 5 lbs.

Why did the trainers recommend against harnesses? There are a number of different styles that are supposed to work well for pullers.

I don't know, for puppy class they said we needed a flat buckle collar.

I am getting ready to do puppy agility classes in 2 weeks. If you have the name of a few collars I will ask them what they think of them. Or I will just get one and show up with it on! I am open to suggestions, and she is my dog so I do get to decide. Right? I do not want to cause her any pain. She is very smart and I think
she will learn fast. I am working with her at home on loose leash walking as they taught us in class. And she does well, but as soon as we get in a room with the other dogs its off to the races, pulling me to follow her!

This is my personal opinion and isn't meant to offend, but I wouldn't continue with a training class where the trainer dictates what type of equipment to use across the board without taking individual needs into consideration.

I had Chizziewink in a basic obedience class where the trainer recommended pinch collars. I told her that I would prefer to use a harness and she replied -- "Chizzie is your dog and I won't dictate to you what collar to use. You may have to work harder to get the same results, but it can be done." I really loved her approach to training - she trains high level agility as well as basic obedience and her dogs have won tons of events.

Unfortunately Chizzie and I had to drop out of class after 3 weeks because I got really sick and couldn't continue.

I am not at all offended, I posted looking for opinions because it concerns me. This training school does only that. It is not at the pet store, or pet smart. So I do want to trust they know what they are doing, but it is my baby and just like with my kids, I will always be their advocate. I will approach them about another collar. Maybe I am not asking them the right questions, I will do that, I should do that. Thanks again, for helping me think things thru.:)

AAAwww thank you. This class is at a self contained training/boarding facility. The classes are "guaranteed for life" meaning that you can repeat the same level of class as many times as you would like for the life of the dog. I would love to go back, but unfortunately my leg injury prevents me from that much physical activity. Maybe one day I'll get well enough to give it another go.

In my estimation a good trainer will be training the owner to train their dog using they types of equipment you would be willing to use at home. If you don't feel comfortable with the pinch collar, then it isn't for you. Good luck -- and be sure to report back :)

I'm definitely not an expert in dog training but I have a maltichon that is a puller. She would pull so hard on her harness she would choke herself and cough. One of the staff at a local dog boutique recommended the Easy Walk Harness and I've have had great results using it. Chloe doesn't pull anymore when I take her out.

Here is a link.:)
Easy Walk Harness, No-Pull Dog Harness - Dog Training Supply

Ugh ... I have a real problem with these collars :(
anything that can possibly inflict any pain on dogs should never be used
There are MANY other ways to stop a dog from pulling

I am not open minded when it comes to using these different types of collars.
The point is that these blunt prongs pinch the skin of your dog's neck.
I would never allow one of these to be used on Ellie even if a vet or vet tech said to. I would drop the class. Harnesses are the best option for Yorkies and the Easy Walk or Chattiesmom's Walk Nice harness may be good options.

These types of training "methods" should be reserved for the untrainable dogs whose next step would be euthanasia and most likely never on a small dog.

That's my opnion. :)

Thank you all for your opinions. I did speak with another trainer at the Pet Expo today. She did not personally like them. ONe of her partners has used them however. They would never suggest using one without proper training and only after working with other methods. You know I kind of was feeling that way, that is why I asked you all! I needed backup!
At the Expo today they had a dog training show. A women was there with her two Yorkies. They were amazing! But they were all on choke collars.
I do not like choke collars!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

A regular collar shouldn't even been used On yorkie's This has to be 100 time's worse.

You shouldn't Pain you dog into listening you should Train it to listen.

NO Need if one actually knows how to train to use a pinch collar on a dog at all ever ever ever.... I am a dog trainer no matter the size of the dog.. Training is not to be done with force.

Then can do a great deal of damage and should not be used at all even more so on a little dog.
Fired them and find a trainer that is postive based and can teach hands off.
International Positive Dog Training Association
International Positive Dog Training Association
SETTING THE INTERNATIONAL STANDARD FOR HUMANE DOG TRAINING AND BEHAVIOUR THERAPY TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES
IPDTA Research Findings



Title: Pinch (Prong) Collars

Body: Tool: Pinch or Prong Collar


Rating: Unacceptable due to high risk for misuse and/or abuse

Operant Sequence:

Positive Punishment - adding the pinch to decrease the likelihood that the behaviour will be repeated. ie: pulling on the pinch collar to stop the dog from pulling on leash.
Negative Reinforcement - ending the pinch to increase the likelihood that the behaviour will be repeated. ie: ending the pinch to keep the dog in heel position (avoidance conditioning).

Use of Tool: Powerful Aversive

Proper Application: The pinch collar is opened by removing one link, then wrapped around the dog’s neck. It is then fastened by replacing the missing link. The collar should fit with the prongs facing the neck, snug enough for the prongs to lightly touch but not push into the skin. When the leash is pulled or tightens, the prongs push against the skin and muscles of the neck causing physical discomfort or pain. Unlike the choke chain and slip collar, the pinch collar has limited constriction. It takes minimal effort to create a powerful correction.

Parameters:

Timing of the correction must be exact for the dog to realize which behaviour will predict the correction.

The severity of the correction must match the dog’s level of sensitivity.

The dog must be taught the desired behaviour before being corrected for the undesirable behaviour.

Benefits:

Has limited constriction.

Takes little effort for handlers with limited strength.

Distributes even pressure around the neck.

Takes less skill to use than some other collars.

Drawbacks, Risks and Warnings:

Physical

The metal prongs allow for a high potential for causing pain and/or physical injury.

Has been known to cause irritation, wounds and infection.

If the collar is left on the dog when not supervised, the dog can become caught by the collar and can injure itself, cause de-gloving of the skin on the neck and head, cause strangulation and even death.

If two dogs are playing together, the dog’s jaw can become caught in the chain causing injury to one or both dogs.

If the dog hits the end of the leash, life line or retractable leash with any force it can cause injury.

If positioned too close to the ears, the correction will affect the sensitive nerve bundles just below the dog’s ears.

Behavioural

Pinch collars have been known to cause fear, submission, aggression, stress, depression and avoidance behaviours.

The anxiety caused by the correction can increase aggressive behaviour, the severity and frequency of aggressive episodes.

Psychological

Unwanted associations may be created if the dog pairs up the unpleasant experience with someone or something in the environment at the moment it is shocked. For example; if the dog is focused on a child when corrected, it may create an unpleasant association with children. This association can cause fear of the child which could lead to fear aggression.

The unpleasant experience can create fear and distrust of the handler.

The unpleasant experience can create fear and distrust of anyone or anything in the environment.

In order to effectively stop an unwanted behaviour with as few corrections as possible, the dog’s temperament and level of sensitivity must be known. Because there is no way to know how sensitive the dog is to the physical correction without correcting it, the risk of making a mistake is high. If you start too high and work your way down you can create fear and/or aggression, if you start too low and work your way up you can desensitize the dog to the correction and/or cause habituation; which is the ability to stop reacting to meaningless stimuli through repeat exposure. R1 When this happens you will require higher and higher levels of correction to stop the unwanted behaviour. Therefore, finding the correct intensity of correction risks causing pain, physical harm, damaging the dog’s temperament and/or creating new behaviour problems.

The unpleasant experience can cause stress, anxiety, and/or depression, leading to other behavior issues and/or the inability to learn.

Limitations:

Goals must be achieved with as few corrections as possible.

Excellent timing is essential for the dog to associate the correction with the unwanted behaviour.

Since it takes very little strength to deliver a severe correction, the risk for misuse and abuse is high.

Because human behaviour is often affected by emotions, there is a risk of bad judgement and/or timing on part of the handler.

The dog may not be able to feel the correction if there is too much hair between the prongs and the skin.

This tool can only be effective once the dog understands the desired response.

Links have been known to come loose resulting in an escaped dog.

Putting the collar on the dog requires strength and good vision.

If the collar is too loose, contact will be concentrated on one particular area which can result in too much pressure to one spot on the dog’s neck.

If the collar is too tight it can cause non-stop pain and/or discomfort.

The pinch collar can only be used during supervised training.

The size of the links must be appropriate to the size of the dog.

Viable Alternatives

A suitable, well-fitting head halter (ie: Gentle Leader)

Counter-conditioning

Obedience training

Systematic desensitization

Negative Punishment - Remove something pleasant to decrease a behaviour

Positive Punishment - Add something unpleasant to decrease a behaviour (Extremely Limited - ie; "Ah Ah" - must not cause fear or pain)

Negative Reinforcement - Remove something unpleasant to increase a behaviour (Extremely Limited - ie; "Ah Ah" - must not cause fear or pain)

Positive Reinforcement - Add something pleasant to increase a behaviour

Interrupt and redirect

Create a reliable “on-off” switch to put the behaviour on cue

Creating other acceptable outlets for the unwanted behaviour

Environmental management to prevent the unwanted behaviour from occurring

References:
R1 - “Habituation” - Excel-lerated Learning, Pamela J Reid Ph.D., James & Kenneth Publishers 1996 Page 37-38




JL

Have you ever used a gentle leader or a gentle leader easy walk? Smokey is a terrible puller and he's 13 lbs and strong. The gentle leader allows me to have more control over him with out hurting him and he listens a lot better. Some people look that the gentle leader and think that it is a collar, but it is not pulling on the throat. If you go into a store and look at one, you will see that the hook where you put the leash is at the bottom of the nose, so when your dog goes to pull, it pulls his/her nose down putting pressure on the nose and causes them to stop pulling. The clasp is not attached to the neck part at all. When put on correctly, the gentle leader is a great tool! It's worth a shot.

I would NOT use anything other then a gentle leader (or similar brand) or a harness on my dogs. In fact I got in a mini confrontation with a "trainer" at PetCo about that. She told me that if I wanted to be in her class that I have to use a collar and I walked away. I have to do what is best for MY dogs and their health. I don't care if it will take me longer to train them, their health is more important to me than that.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will check out the gentle leader. I will be doing puppy agility classes with Lexi in March. It is only for 4 weeks. I am not afraid to stand up for my puppy. I just thought my concern about the collar thing was just me being the worry parent type. I do have the smallest dog in class! Sometimes I think the trainers are so used to the big dogs they try to treat them all the same.
Our previous dog was a big lab, so this little dog thing is new to me. Even at puppy play time in puppy class I was constantly watching the big dogs and the trainer had to scold the big dogs alot for being over aggressive with her. Yea they were learning at the expense of my little puppy! I would like to find a class that was for mid to small dogs only. Sorry no labs, or retrievers!

We use the gentle leader easy walk harness and it works wonderfull

In other words, for really big dogs that are stronger than you, this could be a useful tool, but for a Yorkie, it's really not needed.

We lost our little girl to a collapsed trachea. She had it when we first took her in. We were told right away not to use anything other than a harness on her because a regular collar can squeeze when they are walking on a leash if they get too far away. After seeing what she went through because of the trachea problem, I won't use a regular collar on either of my dogs just to be safe.

Just an opinion... but... I don't understand why a 3 pound dog pulling on a leash is a big deal.

It's a big deal because whether they are 3 lbs or 300 lbs, they should still know manners and be trained.

I am not an expert on training but all 3 of my girls used harnesses in their puppy kindergarten classes and it was fine. I would never be able to use pinch collars on my kiddos. It just my opinion...

i would never use a pinch collar on Annie. She is a puller as well and I really like the idea of the easy walk harness, but never ever a pinch collar on a Yorkie.