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She will sometimes "attack" me in a similar fashion if she is laying on me and I disturb her. This is not playful biting in any way, it is aggressive and willful and quite startling. Typically happens in the evening. She has virtually no tolerance for strangers or other dogs. She barks constantly at people she sees out the windows. When someone comes to the door she goes ballistic. I can't even answer the door without locking her in another room. On walks she is better, as long as people or dogs don't get too close. I won't let children try to pet her because I fear she may bite I have had the bed issue twice. Buddy has been banned from the bed again! He has charged me in the middle of the night because I moved him. The first time he did it I thought was because he was sleeping and I frightened him but the second time, months later, I know it was because I disturbed him. I had a full blown attack in my bed in the middle of the night. I threw him out of bed so fast he scared the daylights out of me. He now knows it's MY BED and not his. He sleeps in his bed next to mine. He just recently started creeping into mine during the night and I ignore it. As long as he know IT"S MINE I think we'll be ok. He is not allowed on the bed ever during the day anylonger. He hates large unknown dogs and it so aggressive when he sees one it's hard to hang onto him. He really is lovable with smaller ones and large dogs he has known from puppyhood. He is wonderful with small children. Because of his sporatic behavior I do not trust him 100% nor will I ever. He is a dog and anything is possible. I would keep your dog out of you bed forever. Put the dog on a leash when people come into the room and control him that way until he is comfortable with the company. I feel Yorkies are very smart and easy to train however they are unpredictable as a most toy dogs breeds can be. |
re: Cesar Are you referring to the guy that was billed as the Animal Whisperer on animal planet? The guys at Petsmart were telling me about his book and said that it was a must buy for anyone who wanted to correct or prevent behavioral problems with their pets. |
Killer yorkie My dog bit a friend of mine yesterday enough to break the skin. I am so upset by his behavior. He did not bite because of anything my friend did, instead, he ran up to him and attacked him. He has been to training, it did no good. I have no idea where this behavior has come from, but it makes me not love him as much. He can never be around people again. When someone comes to my house, he will have to be caged, but when I cage him, he barks uncontrollably. I have two yorkies, one is a biter and the other one thinks he is supposed to kiss everyone that comes here. We can not have company in our house anymore because of their behavior. The only thing else I know to do is to make an attempt to dominate him, but it is so hard to get through his think skull that I am dominating him. I tried that just before he bit my friend. I held him by his neck on the floor saying NO when he growled at my friend. He settled down, and then as soon as I let him up, he ran and attacked my friend. We spent the rest of the evening apologizing and the dog went to the basement. |
for situations like these i believe a professional behaviorist should be contacted. |
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http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/ |
Aggression Issues My Buddy is usually pretty good except for the Mailman when he puts mail in the slot - if I open the door and take the mail Buddy is fine with him; cats/birds through the window or when my husband watches the Outdoor channel and he sees all the bears, elk, etc. I have a spray bottle by me and have it on very light mist. When he attacks the TV or through the window; I gruffly say NO and if he goes back to attack mode, I say "bottle" to which now he usually just walks away, growling under his breath (he does have to have the last word). If the word 'bottle" doesn't work and he attacks the TV again (or if the cat continues to approach the house and he goes crazy) I will spray him, ever so lightly and he comes right over and kisses me; I guess asking for forgiveness. I have been doing this since he was young and he is now 2.5 years; so he is "bottle trained" now. I even use this when he's outside and he goes crazy barking at the squirrels (I can't handle the noise). I go out on the deck and yell "bottle" and he usually walks away. |
There are so many postings on this I could not read them all. In the time since I first posted here, my boy has bitten two people. So, I have hired a professional trainer of the 'dog whisperer' ilk. In one session, I was totally amazed how she affected my dog. He is very aggressive and when any one comes to the door he goes into attack mode, barking and trying to bite. She had him totally under control in 30 seconds. After that, he never barked, he never tried to bite and he never lunged. Now, I know that problem is me and not the dog. This trainer did not even have to speak to him, except when he was good, she said good boy. She accomplished everything by making him calm and using a leash and collar. I think a lot of her success was in her ability to use the leash perfectly in terms of timing and force used. It remains to be seen if I can take advantage of what she suggested. It is a matter of being dominate, however, when I tried to subdue my dog by rolling him and holding him down, he tried to bite me. He has never done that before and it really upset me because I thought he and I were friends. I don't think you can have it both ways with dogs, they have to know you are boss first, then friend. The other thing that will be an issue is time, I don't know if I have the time to do all this training. |
I am so glad the trainer was able to help you and Joey. They are really amazing, aren't they? We had to consult one with our first puppy many years ago and it surprised me how much they train you! I hope Joey continues to make progress. |
This is an excellent thread to read, very interesting. :thumbup: :thumbup: I have a 5 year old 4 pound male, he was such a great yorkie baby, then just before he was one, the vet killed my almost 5 year old, I was so sad for my baby, I got another play mate for him, a 6 month old girl. well she was out to kill, and after that he has never been the same, he was afraid of new born yorkies, after three litters he is so much better. Slowly over time, I would always put him up away from baby's, where he could watch and yet feel safe. Each litter he got a bit better. I just got a new girl this summer, he jumped right into bed with her, stund us all..:eek: He is still aggressive when some one comes near the door, he acts like a huge attack dog. Needless to say the 6 month old girl I got, went to my daughter, my loss on the money, but she got a good home, and now a few years later she is a much better dog, it took me three years for me to allow my dogs around her though. :eek: :eek: pooh's mum |
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HISTORY & MISCONCEPTIONS OF DOMINANCE THEORY [ABOUT THE ALPHA ROLL] Note: The information in the following article came from an interview with Dr. Ian Dunbar, who spent nine years studying the social behavior of dogs during the study mentioned below. In an earlier version of this article, Dr. L. David Mech was credited with the 30-year study. This was a mistake. The researcher who conducted the study was Dr. Frank Beach. An effort has been made to correct this error. However, if you know of a place where the original article was published, please notify the editor and request a correction. The original alpha/dominance model was born out of short-term studies of wolf packs done in the 1940s. These were the first studies of their kind. These studies were a good start, but later research has essentially disproved most of the findings. There were three major flaws in these studies: These were short-term studies, so the researchers concentrated on the most obvious, overt parts of wolf life, such as hunting. The studies are therefore unrepresentative -- drawing conclusions about "wolf behavior" based on about 1% of wolf life. The studies observed what are now known to be ritualistic displays and misinterpreted them. Unfortunately, this is where the bulk of the "dominance model" comes from, and though the information has been soundly disproved, it still thrives in the dog training mythos. For example, alpha rolls. The early researchers saw this behavior and concluded that the higher-ranking wolf was forcibly rolling the subordinate to exert his dominance. Well, not exactly. This is actually an "appeasement ritual" instigated by the SUBORDINATE wolf. The subordinate offers his muzzle, and when the higher-ranking wolf "pins" it, the lower-ranking wolf voluntarily rolls and presents his belly. There is NO force. It is all entirely voluntary. A wolf would flip another wolf against his will ONLY if he were planning to kill it. Can you imagine what a forced alpha roll does to the psyche of our dogs? . Finally, after the studies, the researchers made cavalier extrapolations from wolf-dog, dog-dog, and dog-human based on their "findings." Unfortunately, this nonsense still abounds. So what's the truth? The truth is dogs aren't wolves. Honestly, when you take into account the number of generations past, saying "I want to learn how to interact with my dog so I'll learn from the wolves" makes about as much sense as saying, "I want to improve my parenting -- let's see how the chimps do it!" Dr. Frank Beach performed a 30-year study on dogs at Yale and UC Berkeley. Nineteen years of the study was devoted to social behavior of a dog pack. (Not a wolf pack. A DOG pack.) Some of his findings: Male dogs have a rigid hierarchy. Female dogs have a hierarchy, but it's more variable. When you mix the sexes, the rules get mixed up. Males try to follow their constitution, but the females have "amendments." Young puppies have what's called "puppy license." Basically, that license to do most anything. Bitches are more tolerant of puppy license than males are. The puppy license is revoked at approximately four months of age. At that time, the older middle-ranked dogs literally give the puppy hell -- psychologically torturing it until it offers all of the appropriate appeasement behaviors and takes its place at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The top-ranked dogs ignore the whole thing. There is NO physical domination. Everything is accomplished through psychological harassment. It's all ritualistic. A small minority of "alpha" dogs assumed their position by bullying and force. Those that did were quickly deposed. No one likes a dictator. The vast majority of alpha dogs rule benevolently. They are confident in their position. They do not stoop to squabbling to prove their point. To do so would lower their status because... Middle-ranked animals squabble. They are insecure in their positions and want to advance over other middle-ranked animals. Low-ranked animals do not squabble. They know they would lose. They know their position, and they accept it. "Alpha" does not mean physically dominant. It means "in control of resources." Many, many alpha dogs are too small or too physically frail to physically dominate. But they have earned the right to control the valued resources. An individual dog determines which resources he considers important. Thus an alpha dog may give up a prime sleeping place because he simply couldn't care less. So what does this mean for the dog-human relationship? Using physical force of any kind reduces your "rank." Only middle-ranked animals insecure in their place squabble. To be "alpha," control the resources. I don't mean hokey stuff like not allowing dogs on beds or preceding them through doorways. I mean making resources contingent on behavior. Does the dog want to be fed. Great -- ask him to sit first. Does the dog want to go outside? Sit first. Dog want to greet people? Sit first. Want to play a game? Sit first. Or whatever. If you are proactive enough to control the things your dogs want, *you* are alpha by definition. Train your dog. This is the dog-human equivalent of the "revoking of puppy license" phase in dog development. Children, women, elderly people, handicapped people -- all are capable of training a dog. Very few people are capable of physical domination. Reward deferential behavior, rather than pushy behavior. I have two dogs. If one pushes in front of the other, the other gets the attention, the food, whatever the first dog wanted. The first dog to sit gets treated. Pulling on lead goes nowhere. Doors don't open until dogs are seated and I say they may go out. Reward pushy, and you get pushy. Your job is to be a leader, not a boss, not a dictator. Leadership is a huge responsibility. Your job is to provide for all of your dog's needs... food, water, vet care, social needs, security, etc. If you fail to provide what your dog needs, your dog will try to satisfy those needs on his own. In a recent article in the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT) newsletter, Dr. Ray Coppinger -- a biology professor at Hampshire College, co-founder of the Livestock Guarding Dog Project, author of several books including Dogs : A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior, and Evolution; and an extremely well-respected member of the dog training community -- says in regards to the dominance model (and alpha rolling)... "I cannot think of many learning situations where I want my learning dogs responding with fear and lack of motion. I never want my animals to be thinking social hierarchy. Once they do, they will be spending their time trying to figure out how to move up in the hierarchy." That pretty much sums it up, don't you think? Melissa Alexander mcalex@connectexpress.com copyright 2001 Melissa C. Alexander |
Part 1 Biscuits, Not Rolls Why you should never use the “alpha roll” (and what to do instead). By Pat Miller Teddy’s owners were distraught as they explained to me on the phone why they had called. Their veterinarian had told them that their nine-week-old Golden Retriever puppy was “dominant aggressive” because he was biting their hands. He had advised them to alpha-roll the pup every time he tried to bite or otherwise challenge their authority. They’d been following the vet’s instructions for a week, and Teddy’s aggression was getting seriously worse. They feared they would have to euthanize their pup. We made an emergency same-day appointment for a behavior consultation. I found Teddy to be a somewhat assertive puppy, who enjoyed actively exploring the world with his mouth, as normal puppies do. Like many assertive, excitable pups, Teddy also got increasingly aroused when his owners protested his needle-sharp-toothed explorations on their skin. The more they protested, the more excited (and mouthier) he got. Hence the veterinarian’s all-too-common misdiagnosis of “dominance aggression” and his woefully inappropriate prescription of alpha-rolling the pup to put him in his place. Rolling the dice The alpha-roll consists of physically rolling a dog onto his side or back and holding him there until he stops resisting or struggling, supposedly submitting to your superior authority. Popularized by the monks of New Skete in their dog-training books (such as How to Be Your Dog’s Best Friend) in the 1980s, the technique is a truly unfortunate and dangerous interpretation of a normal canine social behavior. When approached by a higher-status dog, a lower-ranking member of the pack may first avert and lower his head and shoulders, then voluntarily lie down on the ground and perhaps roll onto his side or back as an appeasement or deference gesture. Typically, when an appeasement gesture is used, the higher-ranking canine has no need to assert himself by forcibly flattening the lower-ranking dog to the ground; the subordinate is already there! Job Michael Evans, one of the New Skete monks responsible for writing "How to Be Your Dog’s Best Friend," later left the order, and subsequently stated he regretted including the now-controversial technique in the book. While he didn’t go as far as to say the alpha roll was ineffective or inappropriate, he did say he felt it wasn’t safe for use by the general public. Modern behavior professionals who are well-educated in the science of behavior and learning go much further, denouncing the risky technique along with other methods based in faulty dominance theory. The most obvious negative consequence of techniques that encourage owners to physically overpower and intimidate their canine companions is the possibility of scaring or coercing the dog into defending himself. He reacts aggressively in return, angering or frightening his owner, who often responds by escalating his own level of violence. Before you know it, the relationship between the two is seriously, sometimes irreparably, damaged. Despite compelling evidence that physical intimidation does more harm than good, some trainers today (indeed, some very high-profile ones) are stubbornly attached to the forced roll-over, cloaking it in new-age terms and turning a blind eye to the damage done to relationships between dogs and their humans in the process. Questions of appropriateness aside, it takes someone skilled in handling dogs to be able to alpha-roll a dog without significant risk to human safety – which is at least in part why one television show where the technique is frequently used includes a “Don’t try this at home”-style disclaimer. It’s also why trainers who employ methods such as the alpha roll talk about being bitten as “part of the job,” while those who use more appropriate, nonconfrontational approaches are more likely to keep their skins intact. Canine as a second language Again, the alpha roll is supposed to mimic the behavior of the “top dog” in a pack, and send the message, “I’m the boss of you!” But one huge error in alpha-roll logic is the belief that we can successfully pretend to be dogs in our interactions with our canine companions. Dogs know we’re not dogs, and any attempt on our part to mimic their language is doomed to failure. Dogs are masters at speaking and reading canine body language. Their communications to each other are often subtle and nuanced, a furry ballet designed to keep peace in the pack. Our efforts to use canine body communications are oafish in comparison – and I imagine that our dogs are alternately amused, confused, nonplussed, and terrified by our clumsy attempts to speak their language. Violence occurs between dogs within established social groups when the communication system breaks down; it’s a sign of an unhealthy pack relationship. Ethology studies from the 1970s and 1980s suggest that canine social structure holds together because appeasement behaviors are offered by subordinate members, not because higher-ranking members aggressively demand subservience. Instead, successful pack leaders were observed to calmly control the good stuff – an approach frequently suggested by today’s modern, positive trainers as a much safer, more appropriate, and effective method for creating a harmonious mixed-species social group. In her book, Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Small Animals, Dr. Karen Overall agrees, stating, “The behavior of the lower status individuals, not the higher ranking one, is what determines the relative hierarchical rank. Truly high-ranking animals are tolerant of lower-ranking ones.” Methods that encourage dogs to offer deference behaviors, and then reward them for it, are a much closer approximation of actual pack behavior – and easier for us to emulate successfully – than any application of force. Use biscuits (training treats), not (alpha) rolls! |
Part 2 Establishing leadership The Monks, and others like them, didn’t have it all wrong. It is important that your dog perceive his humans as higher-ranking member of your collective multi-species social group. It is far better, safer, and ultimately more effective, however, to accomplish this through offered deference rather than forced dominance. In his text, Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training, Volume Two: Etiology and Assessment of Behavior Problems, Steven R. Lindsay, a dog behavior consultant in Philadelphia, says, “A wise lupine leader avoids unnecessary dominance contests and assertions of authority.” Lindsay also cites a 1988 study (E. Fonberg, “Dominance and Aggression”), noting that dominance that is established without resorting to aggression appears to be more stable than dominance that is maintained by constant vigilance and displays of strength. There is a multitude of ways to establish appropriate social hierarchy without resorting to aggression. No, you don’t have to go through all doorways first, nor do you have to eat before your dog does. You can simply wait for and/or encourage your dog to offer deference behaviors in order to make good stuff happen, while at the same time you make sure that pushy behavior doesn’t result in him getting good stuff. Your dog’s driving ambition in life is to get good stuff. Some owners and trainers express concern that teaching the dog that he can get you to click! and give him a treat by offering certain behaviors elevates his status because he’s controlling you. In reality, a dog’s psychological response to deference behaviors appears to so hardwired that if a dog repeatedly performs them, he becomes deferent. It’s not just a role he’s playing, like an actor. If he does deference, he is deferent. He can’t help it. Deference behaviors you can use to your relationship advantage include: • Wait at the door. Dog sits and waits to go through a door, even a wide open one, until you give him permission to move forward (good stuff = go out and have fun). • Wait for your dinner. Dog sits and waits to eat his meal until you give him permission to eat (good stuff = eat food!). • Wait to get in car. Dogs sits and waits outside car while door is opened, hatchback is lifted, or tailgate lowered, until you give him permission to jump in (good stuff = go somewhere in the car and have fun). • Wait to get out of the car. Dog sits and waits in vehicle while car door is opened, hatchback is lifted, or tailgate lowered, until you give him permission to jump out (good stuff = get out of car and have fun). • Wait to get out of kennel, crate, or exercise pen. (Good stuff = get out of kennel, crate, or pen and get attention and have fun.) • Sit for your leash. Dog sits calmly to go out for a walk while leash is attached to collar (good stuff = go for walk). • Ask to be petted. Dog sits and waits politely at your feet to be petted rather than jumping up, pawing, or nudging you for attention (good stuff = petting and attention). • Ask for permission to jump on sofa or bed. Dog sits and waits to be invited onto furniture instead of jumping up uninvited (good stuff = lying on soft, comfortable surface and getting attention). In each case, the dog learns to offer deference behavior in order to get the desired “good stuff” result. Appropriate (deference) behavior moves him closer to his goal; inappropriate behavior makes the good stuff go away (see “Oops, You Lose!” below). Happy endings That phone call from Teddy’s owners came almost 10 years ago, early in my career as a professional behavior consultant. Although I had handled many aggressive dogs during the 20 years I worked at the Marin Humane Society, I had not yet worked with a lot of aggression-modification cases professionally. I agreed to see Teddy, with the understanding that I would refer him to someone more experienced if I felt I wasn’t capable of handling his case. He turned out to be one of the simplest aggression cases I’ve ever worked with. He just needed his people to stop frightening him with their unpredictable eruptions of violence so he could stop having to defend himself. We began training with clicks and treats. Teddy loved the clicker game, and caught on very quickly to the concept that a “click!” equals “treat” – and even better, that he could make the click! happen by offering one of a growing list of desirable behaviors. We used a tether to restrain Teddy during training so if he did do inappropriate mouthing we could simply say “Oops!” and step out of reach of his nasty-sharp baby teeth. In the very first session his arousal and biting lessened noticeably. By the time I returned for the second, the mouthing problem was 95 percent resolved, Teddy’s owners were tearfully grateful, and we happily moved on with his basic training. Since Teddy, I’ve lost count of the number of “aggression” cases I’ve handled where the alpha roll was the clear and present cause of a dog’s increasing aggression. A frightening number of puppy/dog owners are still counseled by their veterinarians, trainers, other animal professionals, and well-intentioned friends to alpha roll their uncooperative canines. It’s always better to get your dog to voluntarily buy into your desired behaviors than to try to force him. That’s the challenge, the joy, and the excitement of positive training. As the supposedly more intelligent species, we should be able to figure out how to get dogs to want to do what we want, including being deferent to us, without the use of force. Biscuits, not rolls! |
I can only say if you don't have the time to work with your dog and with his biting issues I can almost guarantee that he will be put down if you no longer want him. Very few reputable rescues will work with a biter and try to place them. If your dog went into a fearful situation I am sure he would bite again. With my work with rescue I ended up with 3 biters (animal control and humane society gave to me as they would have had to put them down) that I could never adopt out-I could be sued. I am well aware of what frightens them and do my best to never put them in a situation that they are fearful of. Yorkies are terriers which is another whole issue at times but from my experience Yorkies are fear aggressive and will bite when they feel scared or pushed into something they do not want to do. It is really amazing to me how they will go after a big dog at a drop of a hat when there can only be one outcome and the Yorkie will lose everytime. If you want to save your little one you will have to do research and read many articles and you will have to commit to time spent with him. I only wish you good luck as this is not an easy thing but with time, patience and love it will work out. |
Let me also add I am not a big fan of Cesar's. I have his tapes and both of his books. I am more impressed with his second book but if you read his books many of these dogs that he has changed are exercised over 7 hours a day. Now that will take the piss and vinegar out of just about any dog. I also find that strangers sometimes will get a dog to do something easier than the owner if the stranger is a take charge kind of person. Time will really tell with some of the dogs he has visited. |
Thank you so much for posting that! The Alpha Roll was started by the Monks of New Skete in the 1970's, They have since apologized for it and said that it was only intended to be used by trained professionals in cases of extreme aggression. It is horrible that it is still being used today. Dogs only roll one another onto their backs to kill them. It is not the same as a dog rolling over on his back voluntarily as a sign of submission. The use of the Alpha Roll has damaged so many dog psyches and made so many dogs aggressive. |
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