In need of some cheering up
 

Hello everyone, long time no see. Clearly I have been out of the forums for way too long. Anyways today I will like to share a $15,000 experience I had with a certain breeder.

So earlier this year we decided to go into showing. We searched and finally found a male. When the boy came we took him to our vet and had him checked. Everything looked great except he only had one jelly bean. Our vet advised that we contact our breeder and express our concerns. We contacted our breeder and he said that prior to shipping the boy both beans were checked and down. It may have just temporarily went up and that it was quite normal.

Okay ... we have trust in our breeder. So we wait about 1-2 weeks and we visit our vet again. Still one missing, BUT our vet said he's a little boy and it is quite common. So yes, we love and trust our vet so we ask how long should we wait before we should start getting worried. Our vet says give it about 5-6 months. We go home and email our breeder and he tells us yes the puppy's father didn't have his beans until he was 12 months old. So it probably runs in the family? Okay that sounds fine.

So we wait and wait ..... Now at 5 months. Still missing one bean, we are getting concerned. So we write to our breeder and tell him it's not going to drop and to please take him back in exchange for a show capable male. Our breeder replies well you should have returned him the moment you found out he only had one bean and that I shouldn't have waited for so long to take action. Because a 5-6 month old puppy is just not worth as much as a 2-3 month old puppy. Hmmm ... well we only waited so long because everyone said it was normal. Well I guess the jokes on us, we obviously weren't experienced enough to know better and the testicle is such a delicate subject. Really ... no one is to blame, right?

But our breeder offered us $1,000 credit toward another puppy. Which really wasn't much considering the fact that a pet quality pup is only $2,000-$2,500. But we eventually gave in when he promised us first dibs on this new girl we really liked. Even though some people thought it was silly, by allowing us to have to girl it had added more face value to the measly $1,000 credit he offered for our next boy. Ok so the deal is to pick a boy and we get the girl. Yay!

We made our picks ..... waited for them to be old enough to be shipped. Finally the day before their arrival I received an email stating both beans were there and very noticeable. And here I am thinking .... finally after 8 months of waiting for a male the day has finally come and we can finally get this show on the road.

Next day .... yay the pups are here! Still a little frusterated because the airport took FOREVER to get the paperwork to us. It was a 5 hour process just standing at customs. But it was all worth it!!! Because the pups are finally home =)

We get home and let the pups out. They weren't bouncy or playful but who could blame them. After a 7 hour flight + 5 hours at the airport I would be pretty scared too. We take them out and let them settle. We check the boys beans .... YES! They are both there and yes very noticeable. Whew! Atleast the quality check is still in order over there. I go slowly checking all the parts that I can and I get to his bite. And to my horror .... the boy has the biggest underbite ever. I immediately email my breeder and ask him what's going on and why is there no pedigree for the girl?????

He told me both pups were checked and bites were perfect. He swears and says his vet promised him the bite was good, and that the pedigree is on it's way. But the bite was NOT good ....and bad bites don't happen overnight or go back up like jelly beans.

I tell him that this is unacceptable and I cannot work with a bad bite and he is not show quality. Then he goes on to tell me well why don't you wait 3 months and see if his bite will self correct and if it doesn't we will give you $2000 credit toward your next puppy and this time it will be perfect.

Like ..... seriously???? I tell him nicely .... we made a mistake holding onto Remy (our last boy from him) for too long and we don't want to make the same mistake again. Then he goes on and leads me in circles asking me to take him to my vet and ask what he thinks. Okay fine ...I go to my vet and ask him what he thinks. My vet says the bite is bad, and underbites will not self correct and if anything it will only get worse. I go home with an official letter from my vet stating the bite is bad and the pup is not fit for what it is intended for. I scan and email the letter to my breeder.

Now he goes ... why don't you take him to the show this weekend and ask what other breeders think. Now I'm getting annoyed but okay I will do whatever I have to do to convince this guy the dog is no good. I take little Benji (we named him Benji) to the show, we show him around and needless to say everyone agrees with my vet.

I go home and email him again. I explained to him what happened at the show. Blah blah .... (other peoples input) .... and I tell him that he is not being fair to Benji and that he needs to take him back or find him a new home now. Now he says he will refund me $2,000 and help me sell Benji for $2,000. Well that sounds okay since I won't be too far out from what I paid. Okay so a few days go by and I receive an angry email. Apparently there were some negative postings on a breeder who sends dogs with no beans and bad bites. He automatically assumed the role and pointed fingers at me and told me that he has been trying really hard to help me and only for me to say bad things about him, his mother, his father and etc. Well I guess everyone has a different definition on "working hard". But okay you say that you are working hard and I will give you that. But hmmm .... now what does your parents have to do with any of this? I don't understand? I've only heard that when things get rough you run to mommy and daddy. But now I see what they mean ... stop being childish we are all grown ups.

So I tell him I'm sorry but I can no longer work with you if you are going to be so petty. Originally I asked for him to reimburse me $3,000 for both Remy and Benji. We paid $4,500 for both pups that are supose to be show quality. To reimburse us $3000 for both pet quality dogs is actually a very FAIR thing to do. Because that would have meant I spent about $2,500 each for pet males. I mean it's still not fair since we don't need pet males but we were willing to split some of the losses with our breeder.

Now this is the frusterating part. He finally agrees to send us the money back for the two bad dogs ONLY if we sent the little girl back. But WHYYYY .... we like the little girl and there is nothing wrong with her. He explains to me that it was a package deal and that if i return the boy then i need to return the girl. Well .... that doesn't make sense... I would have gladly kept the boy if you actually took the time to check his bite. I sometimes wonder if this so called vet is ALSO the same vet that checked Remy's beans! So it's not really my fault... it's not like we are trying to swindle you out of a girl. And I paid just as much for the girl as anyone else would have. So I offer to send the boy back (all expenses paid by me) as long as he sends me a proper replacement free of charge at a later date. He refuses and then tells me I treat him like Sh**.


Hmmm ..... but I'm the one who ended up with two bad dogs. You ended up $15000 richer ... so .... ????? Overall ... I paid $15,000 for ONE show quality female so far .... still no pedigree.

You can try to post your side of the story on your website or wherever your choice of place may be. But just remember this, no one is going to think you tried your best to resolve anything because you don't stand by your dogs. You replaced one bad male with ANOTHER bad male. And this time you did not even offer ANOTHER replacement. You just kept corning us into sending you more money by offering us more credit towards ANOTHER boy, promising us the next time would be perfect. When the first one should have been perfect to begin with.


Anyways at this point I think it is safe to mark it off as a total loss. I have tried to communicate with him in all sorts of way but he keeps playing games and leading me in circles. Posting on the forum is really my last resort. I thank you all for taking the time in reading my story and I hoped you all enjoyed it as much as it relieved and lifted some stress off of me.

If anyone has any advice in any other further steps or actions I can take against this guy please let me know. It would be greatly appreciated.

And just a tip in the future for those looking for a biewer puppy. Don't for once be fooled by fancy pictures. Especially don't for once think that you would be an exception once something goes wrong he will not stand by his dogs. And if a breeder doesn't care about his reputation he will not make any rights to any of his wrongs.

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UPDATE 6/19/14

I wanted to just make an update to the original post. As you all know that these dogs were purchased through Michael. However, the breeder was actually another breeder whom Michael worked closely with.

Michael, the other breeder (Marianne) and I have all come to a satisfactory mutual agreement and funds were refunded to make the pups that were not fit for breeding a "pet" status.

The two pups were rehomed to loving homes of YT members. Both pups were neutered and had baby teeth removed prior to rehoming. I am happy to say that they are now living better lives than me!!! I know because I still keep in touch with them

I would just like to conclude as I am a breeder myself. No matter how hard we try our best to start off with the best and healthiest dogs in our program. Once in a while you will always get one that doesn't turn out. It is unfortunate but that is just how genetics works. We do our best to inform the new families of any defects. But sometimes things do slip by and they don't turn out exactly what we hope them to be. Whether in size, color or other physical contributions. What makes the breeder great is whether they are willing to work with you to make you happy. So I would like thank Michael and Marianne for making things right as they have helped rehomed the two pups that are not fit for breeding.

I am so sorry this happened to you. I have had this very thing happen to me and there are quite a few on here that it has happened to.
I am learning and it was a costly education also. Even if you do the checks, go with YTCA breeder and show person it means nothing nor does the run of the mill. Next time I will be at the shows watching which dogs are winning, who the breeder is and not just one show. That expense would have saved me thousands also.
I wish I had some advice, but i do have empathy...so sorry:(

Wow - what a disheartening story. Do you not want people to know who this breeder is because you never stated him by name? Shouldn't people be aware so that they would consider your story before purchasing a puppy from this breeder? You did show a lot of class - but aren't you being too nice not naming him? And it is being intended that this was a YTCA breeder also? Wow!! You really cannot trust anyone. This is a place where people come to because of the standards they uphold and, I believe, have a reputation to uphold as well - shouldn't they be made aware of this also?

I think you either need to supply the name and location of the breeder or ask the Admin to move your thread to another section if you want to keep that information private.

This is the rule about posting in the breeder review section:

In your thread title, make sure you put in the name of your breeder, groomer, or vet, as well as the city and state (or city and country for non-USA cities). If there is a company name, you can include that as well.

So the title would be like:

Breeder: Jane Doe - Beverly Hills, CA
Groomer: Bob Smith - Miami, FL
Vet: Dr. Cindy Jones - Denver, CO

We purchased the pups through Michael Ostern of My Insatiable Love and Marianne Shroter from Simply the Best. Michael and Marianne has a working relationship in Germany. I do not know what that relationship in specific.

All I do know is that I purchased my first biewer from Michael and I was content. When we returned for our second pup, Michael showed us a litter from Marianne. I stated that I felt uncomfortable dealing with someone I have never spoke to. Michael told me I can trust them 1000% as they are like family to him. I thought well Mariannes litters are all out of Michaels males. So it would be like getting a pup from Michael plus we were so happy with out Kissy. That is when we started going through our hideous venture.

Michael tried to wash his hands afterwards by telling me I was wrong to blame him. Since afterall it was not him who sent the dogs. Even though that is TRUE. Michael acted as a broker between Marianne and I, and I feel that he is heavily responsible in ensuring the quality of the pups.

Originally I did not want to go around bad mouthing people. But after a few encouragements I've decided it is best to make sure the his name and kennel name be stated in these posts. So that in the future families searching through google can google keywords like biewer yorkshire, biewer yorkie, michael ostern, my insatiable love, biewerbabys and simply the best. I wish when I was researching I had came upon threads like these. There were threads about breeders such as Michael in the past but names were never mentioned thus the search was not possible.

I just hope that Michael will keep good on his word and not continue to hold on to our little girls pedigree as hostage.

I am not the breeder of the dogs .
Jin send the money to the breeder , she just needs to look in the pedigree to see that MJ is the breeder and she needs to look at the paperwork from shipping that MJ shipped the puppies . She knew this all upfront .

When Remy was shipped he was checked by 2 different vets ( not our vet) and he was fine . I told Jin to take him to the vet at least 48 hours after she got him , but she first made it 2 weeks later . She send me a email and told me all was fine expect that the vet only could feel one testicle , WHICH i had to tell her is not correct and that she should send the puppy back . I told her that MJ is more than correct and that i could talk to them even if she had him already for 2 weeks . BUT JIN didn't wanted to send him back and wanted to wait longer even if i told her that i don't know if the breeder takes him back if she doesn't send him back right away. Testicles are a very sensetive subjec and can go back up if the males are not handeled right . I never said that the second testicle is going to come back down . I said it could be , but that it also could be that the testicle won't come back down .I think every breeder would do the same . I said that Sunny had one of his testicle pretty high , you could feel it , but it was not down and first came down with 10 month. Jin herself said that she was stupid to trust her vet . If the fault is been know at a young age and the owner does not want to send the puppy back ....i think that the breeder is not to be blamed for that .

MJ feeled bad for that and wanted to make that good so we started to find a solution for that problem . MJ offered to send 1000 USD back or give credit to the next puppy and we was talking about free shipping ( another 500 USD ) .

In that time Jin feel in love with a girl that MJ was going to keep for breeding . She begged and begged and it was her idea to take her and a boy and get a credit of 1000 USD so that she was able to talk MJ into letting the girl go because they wanted to keep her.

I have been pretty pretty busy the weeks and have not been able to drive up to see the puppies myself and check them again . I always asked MJ if everything is fine with the puppies and they told me everything is fine .Than they was shipped on 1 September and i think on the 2 th September , after Jin already told me that she likes the girl , but the boy would be to big for her taste , she told me he had a bad bite . I was shocked and really upset .......but not at Jin . I was upset about MJ and talked to them and they told me the bite has been fine and gave me the number of their vet's and they told me the same . In my very first email after i found this out with the bite i promised Jin that we find a solution and i told her more than 1000 times that i am really sorry . There is no excuse for something like that . I asked for pictures and asked her to let the vet check the bite . Jin was going to a show Sunday so i asked her to take him with her what she wanted to do anyway and maybe ask other people what they think .

I asked if Jin maybe could keep the male longer to see how the bite turns out after the new teeth come in , because it happened in the past that bites have been fine after the new teeth come in . BeeGee the dad so far has never produced a puppy with a bad bite and the mom Sina didn't produced a puppy with a bad bite.

Jin got really mad at me because i asked her to keep him longer . I told her if he would not turn out , we would make sure that she gets the money back and that she has no lose . BUT she didn't wanted that .

So i started to look for a new home for him, but it wasn't fast enough for Jin . She wanted to get ride of him the same day . Again i told her that i am really sorry .

When i found out that a other person started to talk about the whole problem that we had , i wrote to Jin and told her that i am upset about it , she wrote some really mean Emails , which i send to MJ . They called me and told me to offer Jin that they take all 3 dogs back . They would pay the whole money back included the shipping cost that MJ had to pay PetAir to ship the 3 puppies to USA ( 1000 USD ) , they wanted to pay the vet cost of all 3 dogs , they wanted to pay the taxes back that Jin had to pay when she picked up the dogs from the airport as well as the money they pay to wire the money to Germany . And on top they wanted to pay for the shipping cost to send the puppies back . Who would do that ?

We needed to wait because the puppies got their shots for rabies and could not fly back until they have it at least 30 days and there have been a few more things that needed to be worked on . Again i got some really upsetting emails from Jin because it went not fast enough .

Yesterday i got an Email with a data that shows what it would cost to send the puppies back .
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...by/Jetapet.jpg

I didn't agrreed with the cost for sending the puppies back . I know we paid about 600 USD when we imported a dog from USA back , so i think that this is way to high. I asked her if we could see if we find a other company that is able to ship the puppies that isn't that expensive . But again she got mad .

Meanwhile MJ had planned to place the girl with a friend in the USA and wanted to co-own her with the person , so that she does not need to fly back and that they still could get puppies from her .
The person wanted to pick her up in the next days and i wanted to give Jin an exact date .

She wrote back that this would be great so that the boys could fly right away and don't habe to stay longer until end of October . She send a few emails and wanted that we send the money right away back and said that we then could talk about the girl . I could not understand why and had the feeling that she would not keep her word and let us get the girl and later we would not get her when the boys are away . She again got mad and told me that the girl needs to fly back with the 2 boys because she is not a broker and that we then could send her back to USA . It didn't made sense to me and i told her that she would not be a broker if a friend picks up a puppy from her and pay in cash for the puppy .

Than she backed everything up again and send me a pretty nast email .
After this email i told her i am done with her because i really don't think i need to be treated that way .


Ok Michael. I am going to say this one more time.
Now read this in a nice way I am not trying to s**t on you.
I am a really busy woman. I have a life and I don't sell dogs for a living like you. So I don't have much time to do this crap all day. I am getting VERY tired of this. I am going to give you ONE option. You can take it or leave it. Tomorrow I want to see a confirmation from the bank stating that you refund us $3,000. After you wire it ... I will be happy and Henry will be happy. I will most likely not buy anymore dogs from you because I am scared to send you money now. But I promise to say nice things about you and Marianne on the forum. I will announce that you do stand by your dogs and love them very much and that I am very happy with the results. If you do not wire me the money. I will continue to go on all dog forums, health forums and I will buy a website and critisize your business ethnics. Don't underestimate me I do not enjoy toying with you over emails after emails. I will also take the emails you sent me and post them on a website dedicated to just you.Now this might sound really mean and stuff. But it's really not because if you agree to send us the $3,000 and Mia's pedigree we can still be friends and I can still send you nice pics like I use to. So think about it but don't forget ... I want an answer by tomorrow. =)

I think i have done what i could to get a solution for this problem and i think my reaction to the last email is more than understandable .

That is all i want to say about this topic .
It kind of remembers me about the story that a lady got 2 yorkshire females from us . The one yorkshire female got to big and she got the half price that she paid for both girls back......because the one girl was to big for breeding . Later i had to find out that both females got sold to breeder and that the one female got breed at a age of 10 month .

So now think what you want about me , but i think our reference site talks for itself !

Many greetings
Michael
Biewer Yorkshire "My Insatiable Love"

I want to add that if Jin had not send some really nasty and upsetting Emails i am sure we already had found a solution for the problem . We knew that never a puppy should have been shipped that had a bite if the buyer doesn't know about it and wants a dog for show and breeding . I know that is was not good. BUT to treat a person so bad that wants to help and find a solution for the problem , isn't right as well .

Always interesting to hear both sides of a story.

This is exactly why i am so against shipping of pups on both ends.

That is not true . We asked you if you mind could keep him 3 month longer to see how his bite turns out when the new teeth come in . We told you that if the bite still will be bad we would send you 2000 USD or give you a 2000 USD credit on the next puppy and help you place him in a nice home so that you would get another 2000 USD so that you would have the money back that you paid for him . You said you don't want it , because you would get to fast attached to him and would not more be able to place him later , which i could understand . After that you agreed that i find him another home, so that you get all the money back that you paid for him , which went not fast enough for you . You wanted that we send you 3000 USD back and you will place him yourself and after we didn't agreed with that , you wanted to send both back and MJ offered to take the older boy with the one testicle back as well .


That is what we offered you from day 1 .

Here are the two emails i send Jin .
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...erbaby/aaa.jpg
Please read what has been posted on the forum ......don't you agree that this sound pretty pretty much like this story ?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...rbaby/bbbb.jpg

You didn't wanted to work longer with us because i could not sell Benji fast enough , but it takes a few days and i want him to have a good home and that does not work in 1 day . See the email
.
cccc.jpg picture by biewerbaby - Photobucket

We gave you already a discount of 1000 USD when you got the last 2 puppies and we wanted to send you 2000 USD back that would be a reinburse of 3000 USD for the two males and you still had the option to place Benji in a nice pet home for 2000 USD .

What a mess on both ends. It really makes me kind of sick to see how all of these puppies are treated like a business venture as opposed to living creatures. How sad on both ends. :(

My question to the breeder from Germany is this:
If you sent a pup or he did with only one testicle down did you not offer to pay to ship him back and refund all of his cost? That would be the proper thing to do.
After sending a dog with one testicle down you turn and send a dog with a bad bite, why? Would you not make certain that this dog had NO health issues?

These issues are things on a breeding dog that should NEVER be sold as a breeder. These dogs should have gone to loving pet homes and as a breeder who is selling dogs as show quality/breed quality they should be as close to standard as is possible. Any questionable hereditary issues should never be sold that way and should be petted out. PERIOD.

People need to understand that no these dogs are not a business, however if you purchase a pet and it has a liver shunt, leggs perthes, etc. from a breeder you want answers and retribution do you not? Of course you do. A reputable breeder stands behind EACH AND EVERY pup. Not just the show/breed pups but the pets too. If you buy a pet with one testicle down the breeder has the ethical obligation to disclose that to you because even the neuter will cost more etc. So it is 2 fold when a breeder sells a show/breed dog and it has a hereditary problem. As a breeder I for sure would want someone to stand behind their dogs. I think the OP is entitled to either replacement from different parents (because these issues are obviously in the lines) or all her money back and return shipping free.

I am glad the OP is choosing not to breed a dog with a poor bite or one testicle not down. This removes them from the breeding population. Some people are not as ethical, and they would have used them for breeding and the process would continue.

I am not going to bother reading your extreme posts. You have put me and my family through enough over the past few weeks.

BOTTOM LINE IS ..... you told me I was wrong for keeping Remy and that I should have returned him sooner. YES YOU WERE RIGHT.

So with Benji .... the moment I found out. I asked to return him AND i did not even ask for you to pay shipping. I asked for either a REPLACEMENT or a REFUND. But you said NO to both. But Why?????? I don't understand ... I am doing everything you mentioned I should have done last time.

Perhaps its because you knew you sent me a bad dog and if I sent him back. You can't sell him.


Oh just keep him for 3 more months is all that you ask??? See if his bites corrects? And what if it doesn't???? You said then you will send me a $2,000 credit toward another pup and this time it would be perfect???

Then what of Benji??? What is to become of him. By then he would be attached to us and we would be attached to him. Oh I know, we can stick him next to Remy our other PET BOY!

It's just horrible and makes me mad that you want to gamble on Benji's happiness when you KNOW he wasn't what we are looking for. I feel sorry for your dogs knowing now you don't stand next to them.

I

Thank you. He'll be neutered when he is of age and placed in the near future. I will be posting an ad for him shortly.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...erbaby/aaa.jpg

This email was the angry email he sent me when he saw a posting about girls getting ripped off by German breeders. Please note.... NO NAMES were mentioned. But Michael Ostern automatically assumed the role and pointed fingers at me.

Michael you are being ridiculous just as I told you in my response. That posting was not entirely about you.

But you know ... if the shoe fits then wear it.

The puppy had both testicles when was shipped and when he had been checked 2 weeks later from the vet what should have been done at least 2 days after the buyer got the dog one testicle was not there and i told the buyer to send the dog back , but she wanted to keep him longer and i told her i would not know if the breeder takes the dog back at a later time .

The problem was that the replacment puppy had a bad bite when the lady picked him up . If that had not been the chase we had no problem yet .
It was not that the dog was send with a bad bite to upset the buyer .
I really don't know how that could happen and why MJ made not 1000% sure that the bite is perfect . I think you should not send a puppy as a replacement for the puppy that was bought for show and breeding . Everyone know that this only will turn out in trouble .

The breeder offered to pay all the money back + the cost that the buyer had + the cost to ship them back .

Of course the emails were nasty. They were only nasty because I knew at the end you were not going to do anything for me.

You said that in order to get a refund for the dogs I had to send the girl.
I asked you why? You gave me your lame answer .... package deal blah blah.

And I told you ... WHY would you want to put the dogs on such a long flight and pay $1000 shipping them back. When you can just give me the $2000 + the $1000 extra you were going to pay for shipping them back.

But no you were GREEDY and you wanted to only give me back $2,000. And you knew that because I was already attached to Remy and how I adored the little girl. You kept insisting you wanted to fly them ALL back or I get NOThING. But you know what .... I said I am not about to pay over $12,000 for ONE SHOW CAPABLE FEMALE.

So I agreed. Then you led me in circles again ... everyday you asked for pictures and more pictures. And then you ask me to meet a potential customer who wants to buy the girl.

Hmmm .... okay???? But WHAT ABOUT THE BOYS??!?!?!?!?! Oh .... you want to send me money after the girl is gone???? I don't think so ... you said all or nothing but now your trying to weasel your way into getting rid of the girl first.


Michael you are childish and I do not want to play your stupid games.

You knew that his rabies shot needs to be at least 30 days old before he could enter germany ( shipped back to germany )
It is not true that we didn't wanted to replace Benji or send you a refund .

I only asked you to give me some time to find him a nice home . Refund or credit toward another puppy .

Yea you supposedly offered but you never sent me the money. I went through a lot of trouble calling jet a pet and etc.

I even took them all for their shots and their passports were done. Everything was ready except your wire.

You knew that his rabies shot needs to be at least 30 days old before he could enter germany ( shipped back to germany )
It is not true that we didn't wanted to replace Benji or send you a refund .


Okay .... so if it is not true that you did not want to replace Benji or send me a refund. Why did you say NO to all my options????

I paid $4,500 for Remy .... And I paid $4,000 - $1,000 Credit for Benji.

All I ask for is that you REFUND me $3,000.

Now $7,500 (both pup) - $3,000 (i ask for) = you would still have MADE $4,500 for TWO pet boys. Which is more than enough for the going price.

And I told you in my last supposedly "mean" email. That if you refunded me the $3,000 I would be happy. And I would still be able to send you pictures of the babies like I use to.

But then you reply "WE ARE DONE, That's it"

Well doesn't sound like you are trying to work anything out to me???

First of all explain to me how a testicle is down then goes back up? Now the breeder is saying it will come back down? :rolleyes:
Second the first pup had a problem, the second one has a different problem but a problem is a problem. If the vet is not finding these issues maybe MJ needs a different vet?
I am just saying as a breeder you should do the right thing. That should have been done in the first place. You go above and beyond with each and every sale. You make sure that #1 the pup is going to the best home possible for that particular pup. Some are a little shy and should be placed with someone to give them the time and socialization to come out of their shell. Some are very active and dominant and need proper active homes. Show prospects should be placed with someone with alot of knowledge in the breed and who intends to show and not just breed. But along with that you should be placing THE ABSOLUTE BEST there is with that person. Your name goes into the ring with that new owner/handler. So it behooves you to give it your best. You send substandard show prospects, actually you send pet quality dogs for show quality prices. If you or he did not want your name out there for bad dealings then you do everything to make it right, starting from the first dog you sent. You are right maybe you should not have sent a replacement pup, you should have sent all the money back and assured that the original pup was neutered. Then once that was done wait for the appropriate show prospect and go from there.
I do feel bad for these pups that will be sent across the seas once again. Not something that they should have to endure. But what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. If you are not producing show quality pups do not sell them as such. They are pets and their parents should be looked at carefully, because a bad bite is not something to look lightly at nor is a cryptorchid. Those parents at the least should never be bred together again. If these issues are happening again then the offending bitch or sire should be spayed/neutered and be a pet.

You tried to blackmail me when you said you want the 3000 USD back or i am not going to see anymore pictures of the babies and that would post everything in the WWW .

I can't stand it when someone holds the pistol to someones head (?) .
It is not the money which makes me upset .....it is not even my money ....it is the way you treated me that made me upset because i think i can say from myself that i always treated you like a human and with respect .

Oh then maybe I should have continued to say things nicely like I did for the last 8 months you wasted for me?

Look ... all I wanted at the end was for you to refund the proper amount to make the dogs "pet price". Yes we agreed that Remy's problem was fixed with the $1,000 credit + girl .... but you have to understand that you were also supose to deliver me a show boy as well.

Because at the end you did not deliver the show boy. I expect both puppies to be properly refunded into PET PRICE. Now if you did deliver a show boy I wouldn't be complaining that I just spend too much for a pet quality male. Because at the end you would have handed me a show female and a show male. But you did not.

I am extremely disappointed in the way things turned out. And I feel that I am entitled the right to tell my story so that in the future other buyers do not make the SAME mistake I did.

A lot of people told me I was stupid to send you more money after the first bad dog. And yes they are right. I only did it because I believed that Remy's testicle was somewhat in no ones control. And I really did believe it would drop like you said.

But with Benji .... I knew that his bite will not fix. From all the breeders and judges I spoke to. They never once told me that an underbite fixed itself. You sold one of your males to a show/breed home. He had a SLIGHT underbite that was not nearly as bad as Benji's. To this day his bite is still somewhat imperfect, it was perfect enough to show because only two upper teeth were slightly placed behind his lower. But the breeder told me when she got her pup from you it did not look as bad as Benji's.

You said I rushed things. Of course! Why would you blame me???? With Remy we took it nice and slow and look where it got us? Sometimes I wonder if you would have even took Remy back if at the time I said no I would not wait.

I have the right to tell my story. And if I have to I will file a ripoff report and anywhere that will allow me to file the report. I will make every effort to make sure that this story is searchable through google. I kid you not. I am very mad and disappointed.

After I have made my story public. I received numerous emails from your other victims giving me their condolences. So now I know I am not the first one. And I have learned other things about you. But it is not in my position to say. I just wonder why everyone told me your dogs were beautiful but not warn me about the other things. I guess perhaps no one wanted to step up and let it be known.

Now, I have not been around long.....but.....you said you got these pups at 2-3 months old? (Your first post said he wouldn't take Remy back "Because a 5-6 month old puppy is just not worth as much as a 2-3 month old puppy")

What I have learned is that you cannot predict show quality at that young of an age. So, IMO, this may not be the best person to purchase 'show quality' pups from anyway.

:yeahthat:

But it also reinforces the point that one should never buy a dog, whether pet or show prospect, without seeing the dog in person.

To the OP, I'm sorry you had to learn such an expensive lesson. But thank you for sharing the story. Hopefully it will help someone else.

Not sure where you got that the breeder was a YTCA member?? It looks very clear to me that its overseas!

When we sell a Biewer we provide a video of the puppy via YouTube or live feed using our web camera via MSN. This way the client can see exactly what the puppy looks like.

We also provide a very extensive vet check list and a bile acid test. And of course our normal health guarantee.

In reading the entire post, I can see that there has been some miscommunications between both parties. It's like the old saying goes "there is his side, her side and the truth is somewhere in between"

Hope you can work it out amicably even after all of this turmoil.

I jumped the gun and made an assumption based on Post #2. Well, I guess that made an a$$ out of me - Sorry for the misunderstanding:(

I totally agree with you on that quote.

I would also like to just take the time to just update everyone on the situation. Since "our" last posts, I have contacted Marianne, the original breeder and we are in the process of working things out. I have to say that I am quite confident that we can all come to compromise on the situation with Benji. Marianne sounds like a very sweet lady and I look foward into resolving the problem with her personally.

I also would like to make a note, that I have not spoken to Michael since these posts. But I do see that he is still trying to help us sell Benji as per Marianne has said.

I promise to update once we make more progress. :)

If you cant get it fixed then please know you only have 2 years to do anything about this thur the court system. If all else fails.