For the life of me, I could not figure out why you have such animosity towards the OP and this whole situation, going so far as to accuse her of being a thief. I get it now. You are a breeder and are just defending your "career choice". One quick look at your past posts, and the first sentence that jumped out off the page was where you referred to your "breeding stock". Oh yea, I definitely get it now, and therefore will be bowing gracefully out of this conversation. The only reason I became involved in it was because Chinalee had emailed me with her story and asked for suggestions/help. Chinalee/Karen - good luck to you and your pup. I have forwarded your information to organizations who are very successful with this type of situation. I encourage you to file a report with petshoppuppiies.org. "Loretta" and her unlicensed/illegal breeders are already on their radar and I know that they would welcome any information you can give them. You made a decision that others may not agree with, but honestly, it's none of their business, and please know that most compassionate people would be behind you 100%. Those that are not - well, it's obvious now that they have their own agenda. To think that someone would try to present themselves as having a high moral compass, yet can be so blind when it comes to seeing the forest through the trees.

Yorkimom1 - I won't argue with you about the responsibilities of buyers versus breeders. But will just say that for every puppy born to one of your "breeding stock", a perfectly healthy and loving dog is put to death. You can blame whoever you want, but the only ones who are not to blame are the dogs, and they can't fix this - we humans have to do that. Until you face the truth and realize that we CAN fix this, nothing I can say or do will mean anything to you. I hope that one day you will come to this realization on your own and decide to try and help make a difference. And, for the record, I had posted in a previous message that while I 100% disagree with breeding dogs for profit, I accept that it is a necessary evil and that the very few reputable breeders out there play an important role in helping us put an end to puppy mills by keeping potential buyers out of pet shops and off the internet.
My final suggestion - stop blaming and start making a difference. And oh yea, Adopt. Don't Shop. Ever.
www.madpuppymills.org

one more thing
 

and also for the record - the "attachments" that you refer to, are not surrendered puppies from people who no longer want them, those are the "breeding stock" that those puppies were born to.

For the life of me, I could not figure out why you have such animosity towards the OP and this whole situation, going so far as to accuse her of being a thief. I get it now. You are a breeder and are just defending your "career choice". One quick look at your past posts, and the first sentence that jumped out off the page was where you referred to your "breeding stock". Oh yea, I definitely get it now, and therefore will be bowing gracefully out of this conversation. The only reason I became involved in it was because Chinalee had emailed me with her story and asked for suggestions/help. Chinalee/Karen - good luck to you and your pup. I have forwarded your information to organizations who are very successful with this type of situation. I encourage you to file a report with petshoppuppiies.org. "Loretta" and her unlicensed/illegal breeders are already on their radar and I know that they would welcome any information you can give them. You made a decision that others may not agree with, but honestly, it's none of their business, and please know that most compassionate people would be behind you 100%. Those that are not - well, it's obvious now that they have their own agenda.

Yorkimom1 - I won't argue with you about the responsibilities of buyers versus breeders. But will just say that for every puppy born to one of your "breeding stock", a perfectly healthy and loving dog is put to death. You can blame whoever you want, but the only ones who are not to blame are the dogs, and they can't fix this - we humans have to do that. Until you face the truth and realize that we CAN fix this, nothing I can say or do will mean anything to you. I hope that one day you will come to this realization on your own and decide to try and help make a difference. And, for the record, I had posted in a previous message that while I 100% disagree with breeding dogs for profit, I accept that it is a necessary evil and that the very few reputable breeders out there play an important role in helping us put an end to puppy mills by keeping potential buyers out of pet shops and off the internet.
My final suggestion - stop blaming and start making a difference. And oh yea, Adopt. Don't Shop. Ever.
www.madpuppymills.org

I can tell you I'm not breeder and I'm very much against puppy mills and bad breeders, but I agree with Yorkiemom1 and placing some of the blame on the pet buyer. So many are too much in a hurry, or they want the cheapest dog out there. There so much information out there on finding a good breeder. Sorry, but if you stop payment and keep the item you bought, you are a thief, and you have no legal backing for doing such a thing. I understand you are supporting Chinalee, but as many have stated, two wrongs don't make a right. You should also know that “breeding stock” is a term breeder’s use and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the term. I believe it's wrong for breeders to breed their "pets", if you know what I mean. Some people will breed any dog that they own, but a good breeder won't. She takes special pains to find dogs meant for breeding. It can be dangerous to breed a dog that you treat like a pet, and sleeping with breeding dogs, especially, can be dangerous. Don’t think that these people love their dogs any less, they are still their loving family members, but they also have a “job.” You need to read both sides of this, and not just put all breeders in the same basket. Just as anyone who has a baby can be called a mother, not all mothers are equal. I'm glad that you believe in rescue and I applaud your actions, but we also need to support good breeders who are breeding for the betterment of the breed, or the Yorkshire Terrier will die out.

Thank you for the PM, madpuppymills...I appreciate what you said in your PM...I wish you had posted that in the open forum, after you tore me up out here, I certainly would have appreciated what you had to say to me, out here in the open. I do not know for the life of me why people who devote their lives to the well being of dogs, feel they have a moral obligation to use the word 'BREEDER', like it is a filthy word, that they want everyone to believe is used by the drudges of our society to scam and steal and gyp poor unsuspecting, uneducated, uninformed buyers. Not only is this soooooo wrong, it is unfair. Not only are you maligning SOME very honest, respectable, responsible breeders, who care every bit as much as YOU do about where our babies go and how they end up, you are making people that WANT TO PURCHASE A PUPPY FROM SUCH A BREEDER, feel they are the lowest, stupidest, most selfish, most uninformed idiots of society for doing so. This is so wrong of people to do this. All MY intention was in addressing the OP, was to express a concern to her that she pursue this through legal channels, and not risk breaking the law which if this woman chooses to fight over, the OP may very well loose. Then the one person that was trying to do good for a sick baby, has blown the chance she had to effectively do something, within the legal boundaries of the laws of that State, to draw attention to this person she feels she needs to shut down. And it ALWAYS comes back to being "a breeder"...so, as a "breeder", (OMG! there is that filthy word again) I am not allowed to encourage someone to choose to fight an injustice done to her, legally with follow through, rather than buying a puppy, stopping payment on the puppy and then not even bothering to go after the offender in the courts. I, (even though some think of me as nothing more than one of those "nasty, filthy, scum of society breeders") have more integrity than that....I just encouraged her to fight LEGALLY, so she could do some good in a battle to close down this woman....but ooops...let ME shut up, because I am a "breeder" and as such, I can not possibly care about my beloved little babies, my girls or my boys, my new borns, or my program, my ethics or my goals or anything else to do with my dogs, because in the eyes of people like YOU, I am a "breeder"...akin to a leper, I guess and should be avoided at all cost. I am sorry you feel that way...but I will put my ethics and integrity up against yours or anyone elses, anytime....I just happen to believe in paying for ANYTHING I buy, regardless of how stupid a mistake it turned out to be. I will then seek a LEGAL remedy for my mistake, through the court system, where the REAL damage can be done to the person that I believe scammed or took advantage of my gullibility. My only question is, will this person now drag the "breeder" that scammed her and sold her a sick puppy, into court for public exposure, where she can be judged by a law abiding society...I doubt it...she got her puppy, she didnt pay for it, so "the end justifys the means"...I guess some people "honestly" think the answer is to go "BUY" every single abused, mistreated sick puppy from every puppy mill in existance and then stop payment on the check? Is that REALLY the solution to this problem? As far as "Adopt...Dont Shop"...I encourage everyone that wants to do that, by all means do it...but if you DO choose to get your puppy from a breeder that is accountable for what she has spent years educating herself in, on lines, pedigree combinations, diseases, genetics, etc, then do not feel like you are less than worthy of respect from the rest of society for PURCHASING your puppy from a "BREEDER". And if you EVER buy a puppy from someone you think has scammed you, take them to court and get your money refunded by the court system, legally. THAT will do more damage to the scammer than you stealing a puppy from her.

Wow. That's all I can say, is wow. (for those interested, I am pasting my personal PM to her at the end of this post, at her request). My attempt at extending an olive branch with the hopes of garnering your support in the fight against puppy mills went right over your head. You obviously read it, but your perverse need to continually defend yourself against things that I have NEVER, said or even hinted at to you on this board or anywhere else, have made it impossible for you to absorb the reality. Seriously, this is bordering on delusional, and I don't have time for this, as there can obviously be no good coming from it.

I will leave you with this thought and then move on. I'll make it as simple as possible, and if you will please step down out of defensive mode for just a few minutes as you read it, you will see that it is not a personal attack on you. These are MY beliefs and while I do my best to share them with others, I have never, and will never call or refer to someone as stupid, selfish idiots for not agreeing with me. I save those titles for the people who really deserve it, the known and proven puppy millers.

I do not believe in breeding dogs for profit. They are not products and they are not stock.

Unless you plan on showing or breeding a dog yourself, the papers that you receive from a breeder have about as much value as the newspaper that you potty train your puppy on. Showing or breeding a dog is not something to be taken lightly. To those that do it, and do it well, it is a lifestyle, not a hobby. In addition, unless you have actually seen the mother and father of the puppy, with your own eyes, in person, you have absolutely no idea of where that dog is from or who it's parents are.

I know that in the midst of your little pity party that you are throwing for yourself, you believe that people like me are out to get you, to unfairly take away your means of making a living, for no other reason than we want to hurt you. Get over yourself. It's about the dogs and it always has been. Even if every single puppy mill and breeder in the world were all of a sudden to become top notch, humane, reputable breeders - nothing would change for the millions of dogs who are killed each year through no fault of their own, primarily because they are homeless. Shelters are FILLED to capacity with wonderful dogs - including purebreds.

While thousands of puppys are being bred and sold for profit each day, thousands are being killed because they do not have a home. Is that such a hard concept to grasp? Is it not something that you would find worthy of fighting for?

----
my PM message to Yorkiemom1 earlier today:
Judy, I made my final post regarding this subject (Chinalee) about 45 minutes ago. It hasn't been approved yet and not sure when it will show up. It's not a horrible post, but definitely negative, and I have been sitting here ever since, wishing that I did not post it.
This is not what I came to this forum for, and this is not what I have dedicated my life to. Unfortunately, emotions take ahold and we (I, at least) can be easily driven off of my intended path.
I have visited your Rosehill website and while I certainly know that looks can be deceiving in this business, your operation looks to be both legit and reputable. My opinion will never waiver when it comes to breeding dogs for profit while millions are dying, but I also accept that because of public demand to "purchase" puppies, reputable breeders play an integral role in the fight against puppy mills by keeping these buyers out of pet shops.
When I joined in on the fight against puppy mills, one of my goals was to network with reputable breeders who have the same desire that I do, which is to end the suffering of puppy mill dogs, and encourage them to speak out against puppy mills, back-yard/and otherwise dishonest breeders, with the hope that we can put them all out of business one day.
Where I strayed from my goal/path in this situation, is when I felt that you were actually defending one of these dishonest breeders. I realize that you are only stating what you believe to be a legal fact, but it most certainly came across as defending "Loretta's" actions, and villifying the true victim. Instead, it could have been a perfect opportunity for a reputable breeder to send a message to the public that you won't put up with this. A private message to Chinalee with your concerns that she may have gotten herself into a legal situation should have sufficed.
So, I'm finished posting on this subject, I hope that you will understand where I am coming from, and that you will join me in the fight to end the suffering of puppy mill dogs.
Kelly Wood
www.madpuppymills.org
-------
Now, can you please show me where I, in this message or ANY post, even remotely said or hinted at the things you accuse me of??

I always have a problem with people copy and pasting pm's. Firstly, I would never, not ever, no matter how much I wanted to do it do such a thing. It solves nothing, and if someone was privately messaging me and I accepted, opened, read and responded to it, then I consider it a private conversation. I think it is childish, and void of integrity. The only exception would be a truly threatening or harassing pm which I would summarize NOT COPY it...but before even doing that, I would discuss it with Admin/moderators.

The only thing posting that p.m. does is to leave more questions...such as, what was the response? Is that the entire conversation?....its rediculous in my opinion for adults to vacate their own scruples, even on a forum, but I am also the mom who taught my children not to repeat secrets unless the person was endangered...not ever.

I could have nailed my ex to 15 crosses in divorce court, but even then I maintained my dignity and showed him what a better person I am despite him....

Ok, why am I on this soapbox? Because if you had looked at all the posts you would see that we support you, we may not always agree with you, but we support you...*we* even admire you....at the end of the day all of us want whats best for the PUPS...each of us doing it in our own way...some give more, some give less...but trying to make others agree with all of your beliefs is wrong...can't you accept every little bit we offer to your cause and leave it at that? Embrace what we have to offer you...accept it as a small token of our admiration...be satisfied tht we are grateful to you for what you do? I think its along the same lines as trying to make a liberal believe what a conservative believes...we each have a right to our own beliefs. Thank you for sharing yours, and thank you for so tirelessly doing all the things you do for animals...its because of people like you that many animals are treated better than before...we are getting there...

OK, let's stop here. If what I did was either right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Some may agree or disagree for what I did, but it all comes down to the health and welfare of my poor pup. I nor mad puppy mills should not have to justify my reasons for what I did. Legal or illegal, its done and over. Can we just concentrate on zooey for a change? She's the one who's suffering here. That's all I care about at this point!

Chinalee, with all do respect and in my nicest kindest voice this thread is not about you being right or wrong, please don't take it personal, it is about Loretta Plise being an unethical breeder. At somepoint it was taken off topic, sort of.....however it evolved into an important topic of our differences and yet our similarities in all of us wanting what is best for your pup and all pups. Opinions stated, many views heard...there is nothing wrong with this thread....and of course we all support Zooey, I truly hope she is getting better, as I do for all and any pups from this unethical breeder, and other breeders like this. Stay the course and keep us posted about the outcome, we really do want to know and we do care!

Lynzy - I am a little bit confused by anger directed toward me in your post. First of all, I did not copy and paste a private message from anyone. I sent a private message to Yorkiemom1, extending an olive branch, and asking for her support. She did not reply to me in a private message, instead she replied to me on the public board, and stated that she wished I had posted my message publically rather than in a private message - for which I obliged her. Like you, I would never post something that someone sent to me in private.

No anger directed at you, unfortunately text does not convey emotion, it was a generalized statement about my views on pm's, period.:) Please don't be offended.:)

The bottom line is karen nigal,has tryed to run me down with saying IM a puppy mill person sell sick babes all are not true,she and husband new that i was treating my pup for hot spot ,with no money
gave her my baby with the meds to finish caring for her she agreed with a $400 discount gave me a post dated check for 2 wks after 2 wks,she stop payment of $600.. she has now stoled my pup wont give it back, I would have never gave her my akc girl with her bald spot..with out telling her she new,But I felt so sorry for her and how bad she wanted a yorkie I gave her my little girl without any money
I could have treated her myself.she was never sick .Why would someone who was so kind to another,turn and cheat, lie and steel my puppy..shame on u karen Nagel nothing u cry make it right to take something that docent belong to you..15 yrs I have made people happy who have lost a husband live alone "elderly" these babies have changed there lives with joy again..why ruin this joy with your deception and lies. U make people never want to trust again this is how it makes are world the way it is with people like you we can never change.. so sad

OK Loretta, are who ever you call yourself today. You lied, and won't admit it, so others know what you are. So keep slandering my name untill you grow up. There's so much proof of who you really are. How do you look at yourself in the mirror everyday and not realize what you're doing wrong? Now that is what I call SAD!!!!

Well this is also your fault because you should not have taken a check for payment and also you shouldnt have set a dog home to a new owner with a skin infection. It was your job to treat it you are the breeder

Thank you Loretta for bringing us back on topic. Now there is enough proof and evidence out there to show that you are not what you claim to be, an ethical breeder; infact, quite the opposite.

Now may be a good time, in my opinion, for you to consider turning over your "fleet" of breeders to a rescue so that they can live the rest of their lives as somebody's pet and be the dogs they were meant to be.

You need to address the situation with Chinalee through your lawyer or small claims court, unless of course you have something to hide, which in my opinion I think is true. Coming on here and blabbing about your being wronged etc., etc., is surely not the productive means to an end. Take action or walk away. Karen has shown that she would be happy to answer to you in a court of law, which is the avenue for such situations..take it or leave it Loretta.

If your reputation was such as it is, I would think you would as an elderly person want to take an inward inventory and admit where your faults may lay = they are in the kennels in your back yard, Loretta.

Exactly!!:thumbup:

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle this transaction/failed transaction, it is a legal matter.

And by the way, I never cried for a yorkie. Out of two pups you, Ms. Broker shows me. You insisted I pick the one I have today. Even though I wanted the other one, you talked me out of it. After coming back to you three days later for bald spots, you give me meds and tell me "don't go to the vet" then you offer me a discount? Because you knew all along she was sick! I never asked you to do that. It was your guilt that made you give a discount. Keep track of your own lies!

Funny how when you hear both sides of the story(s) one side always makes more sense than the one that keeps changing....I'm sorry Chinalee, that this happened to you and your pup.

Thank you lynzy!!!!!

Is it ok for karen to keep my puppy without paying for it ? is that the way we want people to be, after holding a check twice because they still didnt have the money, then make a excuse to keep the puppy because why?sick/not I can treat my puppy myself..she should have given me the pup back. is that how we want to teach our children its not her puppy to keep its a baby my baby..is ok to steel from another

it be nice if you made sence!! lynzy!! chinalee,took a puppy
without paying for it..would you do that? if she thought the puppy was sick, she should have gave me back my dog, you dont stop a check and keep someone else little puppy,
that's stealing...if you make a excuse that the puppy is sick
and keep it ..and the money What are you telling people
why would you think its ok...is this what you would teach your children..its wrong!! I love my puppies..
your just as bad as karen giving her ok for keeping something that dosent belong to her.:mad:

So.... you have an option. Take her to court.

I'll let you in on a secret. I work with several lawyers, my lawyer is a personal friend, my son is also a lawyer. She stopped a check/payment. It is now your legal right to persue a resolution, as long as your contract is legitimate and legal, you should have no problem recouping your money...however; I'm betting, as demonstrated so far by your bitch and do nothing approach, you will continue to complain on here rather than go to small claims court and settle this matter. Her costs, thus far financially, are higher than the cost of the dog...I'm thinking you already lose...is it possible for a loser to lose....eh nevermind, just rhetorical.

How to Sue for a "Stop Payment" Check (Small Claims)

I talked to someone who told me that this is for all of California.....um, Loretta...I'd cut your losses and be quiet now...you definitely lose....

I understand what u are saying we lost our beloved Rocco a week and 2 days ago. Loosing him has devastated our entire family. We also purchased Rocco from Loretta. God Bless my little boy he was 4 yrs. and died from Acute Pancreatis that turned into Kidney Failure. The vet believes that he may have been genetically predisposed to this. She deceived us. I can not see straight I am so filled with anger.

I pray no one else goes through what we are going through now. She and her accomplishes (Rick Willis in Oaklahoma etc..) must be stopped. If there is anything that we can do to stop her please let me know......

Terrie

So Sorry for your loss,I truly understand the loss off your beloved rocco.
> Why in gods name would you blame
> me and Mr willis we would never have known the puppy you bought could have
> had any kidney problems he was four. Your VET said he MAY have been
> genetically deposed I do not have a crystal ball just like you don't . If I
> did I would have done everything in my means my life to save your child 7 mo
> old from dyeing of crib death...I didn't blame my husband.no one
> intentionally would want something to happen to any loved one.
> I know your hurting but please rethink who your throwing your anger at its
> just not fare.
> Thank you Loretta

Sad!
 

People like her need to be put away.... Glad that you are puting the word out!!!:)

shut her down!!!
 

Well, looks like Loretta makes an appearance today. She's not sorry for anyone or anything. She's just making tons of money selling sick puppies. I'm a victim of her crimes too. This isn't over yet!

Just wanted to thanks all of you guys for trying to stop this lady from selling sick puppies, just so sad for all those poor little babies keep up your work praying you get this lady shut DOWN

Loretta
 

In response to your reply. I would like to ask u why in God's name do u continue to lie and try and hide. The more I research u and Rick Willis the more it stinks.. U are shady and many others know this...

I do not blame I am telling the truth. I was the foul who believed and trusted your documents and your words. KARMA will come to u. All will come out in the wash....

In the name of my boy I will pay........