Patellar Luxation
 

Do breeders breed dogs with this condition if the grade level is 1?

I would hope not. (IMO) LP is quite serious and expensive to repair. :mad:

A lot of breeders don't check the patellas of their dogs prior to breeding. Your reputable breeders should though - they should have the patellas cleared before breeding and wouldn't breed a dog with LP. A dog with luxating patellas shouldn't be bred, but many are.

I am not trying to start controvesy but....... I have talked to some show breeders and they will breed dogs with a grade1-2 as well as some vets say it is ok as well. Lp isn't alway genetic it can be an injury as well.

I definitely believe it. Luxating patellas are so common unfortunately. Not all show breeders are reputable breeders either. My first cat came from a show breeder that i now wouldn't consider reputable. It would be great if all breeders checked their dogs for LP prior to breeding but that just doesn't happen. My Lacy has Luxating patellas. Her right one is a grade 3. So far as reputable breeders are concerned - I have a very narrow opinion on what that is - much more so than most YTers and in my opinion a reputable breeder wouldn't breed a dog with any grade of LPs unless they were 100% certain that the LPs were from an injury and not genetic. Most LPs in our little dogs are genetic though - injuries make up a small percentage of LPs

Are you serious????
I really hope that this is not most breeders. I have 2 dogs with LP. In NY surgery is extremely expensive. We have spent $4000 on Roxy's LP surgery so far, and TJ will have to have it too at some point. They both have Bi-Lateral Luxating Patella - and it has been confirmed by 2 different Ortho Specialists, that YES it is hereditary. When you have LP in the larger breed dogs, that's when it is from injury.

is there any way to proove that its hereditary or from an injury?

I'm not an expert or anything but just some thoughts I'm having on it. I would think that if you did x-rays, you'd be able to see if the patellar groove is too shallow or not. If the groove is too shallow, then it's obviously genetic. If your dog's legs are bowed, that's genetic. If the ligaments holding the patella in the groove seem to be damaged, it's probably an injury. I would think by looking at x-rays, you'd be able to tell a lot. But like I said, not an expert on this (yet anyway...I'm really interested in orthopedics so I'm sure I'll be learning a lot more about it over the next few years)

How old did you say your puppy is? And how long have you had the puppy? I'm sure you've posted this, but bear with an old lady.


Grade 1 or 2 is not at the point of required surgery. If a vet has pushed surgery, get a second opinion. Some vets are in a hurry $$$$$.

You are absolutely correct.:thumbup: Wow, pretty good advice for a regular old pet owner. ;) :p We have a male that has Grade 1 LP due to injury. You CAN see it and tell if it was injury induced in an x-ray. I tried once before to figure a way to post it on here as this conversation has come up before, but I couldn't.:rolleyes: Yes, LP is hereditary, but minor cases can arise from things like injury and even jumping on and off the couch. So it isn't always something that would be passed on to other generations.
We have not used our male as stud...he isn't quite old enough, but if we decide he is what we want to add to our breeding program, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do so.:)

She said in a previous thread that the puppy is 10months old, and the vet did not say what grade the LPs were

thank for the info, thats what I was thinking, xrays, but wasnt sure if they could tell by them or not.

yup yup!

I've been learning more about LPs over the past year. I'm in my first year of vet school now, and I've learned a lot about Luxating patellas within just the past couple of weeks. It's something I'm interested in since Lacy has LPs so I've been asking a lot of questions about it in Anatomy (especially since we just finished studying that joint) :) But I am in no way an expert on this...still have a A LOT to learn

Thanks, I couldn't remember.

But, as both you and Bama informed her x-rays would be the best point of reference. If both legs are involved, most like the LP is hereditary.

I too have a Stud with grade level 1 that was caused by trauma. Would never hesitate to use him as he was cleared as a pup as well as his parents.

Another contributing factor to LP is weight.

I dont think her weight is an issue, she is def not overweight, I think she is a little over 3lbs. I am sure there must be conditions of the front elbows, maybe I should have that checked out as well.

The comment wasn't aimed at you, just a generalization.

:) Interesting...makes perfect sense though.

And MyFairLacey...find me someone who does truly know it all about this or any breed and I'll eat your hat. I don't think anyone could ever truly learn or know it all, although some forget that from time to time.
:)

oh yes i know, i didnt think you were. :p I think MiMi could use a little more meat on her actually..:animal36

Isn't this pretty commun in toy breeds? Just curios here. My aunt Tina bought a toy Poodle and she discovered the boy has a grade 2 PL. The vet told her that this is not of too much concern and that this is pretty commun in all toy breeds. The vet said that he saw many toy dogs (especially those tiny tiny) with a grade 2 that grow up older and never needed a surgery and/or did not show any real sign. Again, I am not a breeder here but that's my only experience on the subject.

Agree with this!!! many vets are there for money!!

Yep, pretty common. Not sure about other breeds, but it's common w/ Bassets too...which, we have one of those as well. The best of both worlds ...woo hoo!:rolleyes:

There can be problems with the elbow joint but that is a lot less common because the elbow joint is just a better joint. The bones just fit together so much better than they do in the stifle (ie. Knee) joint. But there is a condition called elbow displaysia, but you'll normally see that in large, active breeds.

:thumbup::thumbup: i agree. myfairlacy, orthopedics is an excellent area to specialize in. lots of money in that field. you should see the surgeon's i work for LOL maybe when you intern you can do it with a board certified orthopedic surgeon, you'd learn so much. i have, and i've only worked with them for 8 months.

very true. while some surgeons may know A LOT, things are always changing. they're are always learning new ways to do things and discovering new things entirely. Just recently, within the past couple of months our hospital started performing TTA's in place of doing CCL's surgery (if the patient qualifies for this particular surgery). patients that have had a TTA done are showing to recover faster, and most patients start putting pressure on their surgical leg the day after surgery. its amazing.

nobody knows everything, and if they say they do they're full of it :D

the only reason its common in toy breeds (speaking from the heredity side) is that people let it be. If breeders were more strict, they could wipe out genetic LP, but many breeders, as stated before, still breed their dogs with grade 1 or 2 LPs. Alot of people figure its ok to let the small dogs suffer from LPs because they are so small and they think it doesn't hurt them as much because they're not as weighty as bigger dogs.

Really? i didn't know this about Bassets. i haven't seen any come in for LP surgery, tho a couple have come in for bloat. had one last week in fact...poor little guy didn't make it. bloated again in hospital at night after the first surgery. :(

:thumbup::thumbup: yup, i've seen a lot of FCPs (Fragmented coronoid process) done in bigger dogs like GSD, mastiffs, and bernese mountain dogs.

A few weeks ago we were talking about the stifle joint in Anatomy and the professor started off by telling us it's just a "sucky joint"..LOL..thought that was funny. It's just designed so terribly. The rounded condyles of the femur just dont fit on the flat surface of the tibia so you have to have a ton of ligaments to stabilize the joint. And since it's such a "sucky" joint there are just too many problems that can happen with it.

got that right!

Yeppers, that along w/ glaucoma, hip disorders, von Willebrands and disk problems. They rarely need surgery for their LP, but most have 1 or 2. Now, I didn\'t know bloat was associated with them...that is def something I will start keeping a closer eye on. The enlongated torso, would make them a perfect candidate for it. Now THAT is scary because it hits sooo fast.:(

Has anyone adopted from Queen\'s Yorkies?
 

If so, please respond with your experience.
Thanks,
Trish