a little info for people so against mixing
 

This is probably not going to take well but im really upset with people stating things about mixing breed for example about them being pathetic and ruining the standard and one person even told me digusting, and a true breeder should know the history of the breed and that EVERY breed has been mixed with other breeds to get that desired dog here is the info for several places including akc.org
AKC.ORG

The Yorkshire Terrier traces to the Waterside Terrier, a small longish-coated dog, bluish-gray in color, weighing between 6 and 20 pounds (most commonly 10 pounds). The Waterside Terrier was a breed formed by the crossing of the old rough-coated Black-and-Tan English Terrier (common in the Manchester area) and the Paisley and Clydesdale Terriers. It was brought to Yorkshire by weavers who migrated from Scotland to England in the mid-19th century.

The Yorkshire Terrier made its first appearance at a bench show in England in 1861 as a "broken-haired Scotch Terrier". It became known as a Yorkshire Terrier in 1870 when, after the Westmoreland show, Angus Sutherland reported in The Field magazine that "they ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but Yorkshire Terriers for having been so improved there."

History

The Yorkshire Terrier also called Yorkie had its origin in the late 1800s early 1900s. It is not knows when exactly. The Yorkie was derived from mainly the Clydesdale Terrier, The Black and Tan English Toy Terrier and the Maltese.
The Yorkie's name indicates were it originated from, namely Yorkshire in England or surroundings. The Yorkie's main function was to control the rat population in the coalmines and cotton mills. The Yorkie was much bigger at the time than we know a Yorkie today.
The breed is only 100 years old or so, but its origins are not entirely certain - probably because the working men of north England, who developed the Yorkshire Terrier for catching the terrible rats that infested the mine shafts and as a hunting dog that could penetrate into badger and fox burrows, avoided divulging the secret of their success to those who might have cashed in on a lucrative side line. However, it seems likely that Scotsmen seeking work in the woolen mills of Yorkshire brought with them various types of terrier, including the Skye and the now extinct Clydesdale. These were then crossed with local types, such as the long- haired Leeds Terrier. The Maltese, Black & Tan Manchester, and Dandie Dinmont Terriers may also have contributed blood lines. At first, the Yorkie was a much bigger animal than the one we see today, but by selectively breeding the smallest individuals, the dog was gradually miniaturized over the years. They were made into a fashion dog. Women carried these little dogs in their bags and under their arms. The first Yorkshire, with the characteristics demanded by its standard today, appeared in a do

every great breed begins as a mix! its a TRUE and FACTURAL thing. and to say that mixing is ruining can all together be incorrect. one day these mixed breeds may be registered with akc. so before you start raving about how prestine the purebred yorkie is think how you got a yorkie... there was more than two breeds involved wow that sounds like a mungrel to me.

This is not to start an agument thought it may but its to open the eyes of people who look down on the persons who may be trying to invent that new breed and do it correctly. im not stating that i am but there are people who work extremely hard to perfect their yorkie-poos and morkies, and so forth

That's all wonderful information that I don't think anyone has disputed, we know our Yorkies 'came from' something and we don't have a problem with that. However, the problem lies in the breeders who continuously mix and breed their dogs with no regard just to try and come up with the next hot designer dog so they can charge the unsuspecting public a ridiculous amount of money and make their fortune. We all know these 'designer dogs' are sitting in shelters all over the country...puppies and adults...and if someone wants a mix that's where they should start their search. I have nothing against mutts or mixes or whatever you want to call them but I do have a problem with the so called breeders. If they're only trying to come up with the next new breed why do they charge so much for a puppy when the mix isn't perfected and registered? (Because it's all about the money!) Shouldn't that high of a price be reserved for the breed when it is perfected and registered?

well..i dont agree with puppy mills breeding and breeding mixes into mixes..but all breeds come from something and some of these breeds are desired and people ARE willing to pay from them. people wouldnt breed them if peope wouldnt buy them..right? and where i live there is no small breeds in shelters here. if they werent desired by people, breeders wouldnt be breeding them so often and charging so much. some breeders get crazy money for these dogs and if its me..and i spend $$$ on a dog its not going to a shelter because so much money might be have involved.

It takes dedication, dog fanciers that have committed their effort for any of the purebred breeds to be developed.
They did not come about by taking a maltese breeding to a Yorkie calling it a yorkese or whatever the heck you want to call it.
It took many years, keeping records and all wtih a certain dog in mind that when it was finally produced you could breed it and it would breed true over time and generations.
You don't get dogs that breed true when you mix two or more breeds and get puppies and breed those, call it whatever designer breed comes to mind and sell puppies at some inflated price as rare.
Get a book about the various breeds that breeders have developed and you will find how it was done.
Breeding because they sell is not really the best reason in the world to breed.

I just checked petfinder.com and found several small breeds/mixes in the shelters in VA.


That's great that you would never send a dog to a shelter because 'so much money might be involved'. By that I believe you mean the amount you paid for the dog? I only wish more people wound put the money aside and not send a pet to a shelter because they love it and have decided to make a lifetime committment to keeping it. If you take a look through the shelters you'll see that money isn't always enough for someone to keep their pet...there are many, many expensive pure breeds sitting in shelters...that's why we have rescue groups.

Well said :thumbup:

1. Can't get it housebroken and don't have time for it anyway.
2. New baby and don't have time for it.
3. Had him for a week and it isnt' working out; way more work than I thought.
4. Barks
5. Got a new boyfriend (or girlfriend) dog has to go because we wont' have time for it.
6. Owner died no one in the family wants it.
7. Developed allergies.
The above were all Yorkies that I helped the owners find homes for or a rescue group that could help, and in some cases took in myself and kept because they were too old, no one wanted them. The rest I was able to find a new home. Most paid a good price for these dogs when they bought them as puppies.
Price is not going to guarantee a good home or a forever home.
That's where the dedication of breeders comes in where the breeder is willing to take back any dog or puppy they sell no matter the reason it comes back.
I don't believe I know of any mixed breed breeder willing to do that.
I do know not all purebred show breeders don't either but many, including me, do. And I end up rescuing dogs I never sold in the first place.
About 95% of my mobile dog grooming clients are mixed small breeds. Many have health problems from allergies to knee problems and very few have a proper scissor or even a reverse scissor bite. Instead they are grossly undershot with the bottom jaw jutting forward from the top jaw by as much as just shy of 1/2 inch. The coats in coated mixes are nightmares, they are not the coat of one breed or another but combinations and very hard to groom or make it look like something.
Right now I am nursing a badly injured left hand from a bad dog bite, a grooming client, Lhasa Apso likely a cross, not registered bought at a flea market. DOg is downright dangerous and I have a feeling they are going to have to put him down as he is biting the family and cannot ever be trusted.
Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.

Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.[/QUOTE]

I became a member here because I wanted to learn about and become apart of people who love this breed as much as I do. But I have to voice my opinion regarding what is being said here. I grew up with a Lhasa mix who was the most wonderful dog I have ever had, and she got along with everyone and everything, never had a problem. Her groomer loves her and says she loves having her and she is one of the best behaved. I do not make the statement that I work around dogs or animals on a daily bases like I am guessing you do, but the statement above I think is a little harsh. You have to admit that you learn from your surroundings and so do our animals. To make the statement that they draw blood and do as much damage as they can is saying that they are ALL wild and can not be tamed. How can you say that?? I really don't understand. How would you feel if that was said about your/our favorite breed?? Would you feel that, that was a correct statement or just a bad apple??? Don't you think you may have over reacted in your statement?
I guess I am just having a hard time believing someone who seems to love animals so much could talk that way.
By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!!

I am sorry I still don't have this down pat

I became a member here because I wanted to learn about and become apart of people who love this breed as much as I do. But I have to voice my opinion regarding what is being said here. I grew up with a Lhasa mix who was the most wonderful dog I have ever had, and she got along with everyone and everything, never had a problem. Her groomer loves her and says she loves having her and she is one of the best behaved. I do not make the statement that I work around dogs or animals on a daily bases like I am guessing you do, but the statement above I think is a little harsh. You have to admit that you learn from your surroundings and so do our animals. To make the statement that they draw blood and do as much damage as they can is saying that they are ALL wild and can not be tamed. How can you say that?? I really don't understand. How would you feel if that was said about your/our favorite breed?? Would you feel that, that was a correct statement or just a bad apple??? Don't you think you may have over reacted in your statement?
I guess I am just having a hard time believing someone who seems to love animals so much could talk that way.
By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!![/QUOTE]
Who said I was going to groom it again? I could write more and say why I posted what I did but its' a waste of time and energy I can't be bothered.

Personally, I don't believe the way the yorkshire terrier was bred and 'developed' could be even compared to what is being practiced now with the current mixed breeds.

We all have strong opinions and oposing ones at that-so this is an ongoing topic. I don't agree with mixing and that is just my personal opinion-I also understand it shouldn't have to be everyone's.

There are enough mixes in shelters why add to them

Please go to this website to read on the history of the Yorkshire Terrier.

http://www.ytca.org/history.html

Why adding other mix breeds to the ones that are already in shelters ? I don't see any good reasons for it .

Yes, every great breed was developed by mixing and there are dog fanciers that are doing this today. But, they are doing it with a purpose in mind for that dog. They are documenting the progression of their breeding, as the registries of today require detailed documentation & historical data. The Biewer was rejected as a new breed by AKC because of the lack of detailed data. So, these fanciers are back to the drawing board in hopes to provide AKC with the data they are requiring. It's a long and hard process.

There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree my2boyz & Jessy

I love ALL dogs but it makes me sad to see the zillions of sites up now selling 'designer dogs' when we have a major shelter-dog problem in this country. Giving a dog a cutsy name and a big price tag makes people think they're getting something special...it's just bad for all dogs in the bigger scope of things.

There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.[/QUOTE]




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tammy -- I think some of your information is incorrect. You do say that you are quoting from some places including the akc.org -- but the idea that the maltese is part of the genetic history of the Yorkshire terrier is probably not correct. I do not think you will find any reputable history of the breed that includes the maltese. AKC.org certainly does not, the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America does not. I know there are some websites to be found that seem to have made up there own info -- you have to be careful who you quote and believe.

The Yorkshire Terrier does come from SELECTIVE breeding. Long before there WAS an AKC and breed standards people bred dogs with specific purposes in mind. Once these breeds were established, organizations formed, breed standards, judging, shows, etc... THEN even more selective breeding was done to refine the breed. Generations of very meticulous care, education, and study went into giving us this remarkable breed. So, when someone comes along and says I want to breed this yorkie with a (a) (b) or (c) and "SEE WHAT WE GET" it does rankle a lot of folks.

Beyond the worry about finding homes for all the little mixed breeds, I worry about the ones that wind up looking "all yorkie" and get sold that way. Down the line, puppies start veering more and more from the finely established features the breed has become famous for. It is all too easy to register these breeds with some of the off shoot registeries. Then a novice decides to become a breeder, the puppies look like Yorkies. But as the dog grows the subtle differences become stronger. "Well, its just a big yorkie, it's just a big-eared yorkie, it's just a square jaw yorkie" -- no, somewhere in the line there was probably one of these little mixes unwittingly bred.

GIANT STEPS BACKWARDS!!!! How many correct breedings do you think have to happen before those mixed qualities are out? 3 generations, 5 generations, a dozen?

Another thing is continued breeding. Now that you have your little mixes, do you breed them with other little mixes? Do you realize the vast range of characteristics that are possible? Someone buying the puppies will have no way to imagine how the adult dog will look. Course the seller may not even care, the money is safely in their pocket whle the puppy is little and cute. But someone thinking they were bringing home a Yorkie looking puppy may be very surprised when the dog looks completely different at adulthood.

I think experimentation should be saved for the chemistry set -- breed to standards within the same breed or spay them. Others have every right to disagree though. As a whole we will never all agree on politics, religion, or how to breed dogs. That's life.

Summed up perfectly in that sentence!

I personally think some of the best dogs ive ever had were mixed dogs. but on the other side all my mixed breed dogs that ive ever had were accidents that someones dog accidently got pregnant from the neighbors dog or w/e and it wasnt really to better anything at all. But I do know their are people at least in my area who breed these mixes for money and money alone. i saw how popular the labradoddle or w/e was here and now they are not so popular and they are all over ads people trying to get rid of them. Someone i went to school with purchased one and she paid money for it and just the other dya i was searching a well known in my area ad site and it was on there that she was trying to get rid of her labradoddle. its just so sad. that also being sad their are people who also get tired of their purebreed dogs and try to get rid of them too. I think people need to realize that getting a dog is a life comitment if not for you for them. So i know its not right for people to say its jsut for the mixed dogs but i do think that if a purebreed owner tires of their dog it is easier to give away then a mixed dog. mixed dogs usually go to the shelter, where as iv never seen a purebreed dog in any shelter in my area.

1st let me just say. No offense to those who have designer dogs.
2nd let me say, I had 2 lhasas for many years and never ONCE did they ever bite any1 or anything (except that squeaky french fry toy lol :P) They are great dogs and dont judge an ENTIRE BREED.
3rd, i work at a rescue and if you think that all there is in there are old mix breed large dogs YOU ARE WRONG. we have purebred puppies, mix puppies, small puppies, large purebreds and EVREYTHING IN BETWEEN. think of evrey irresponsible person that gets a dog. how many of those dogs they got because they wanted a purebred? a golden retriever that could play basketball, a border collie that was smart, a jackrussel that would be like frasier, a dalmatian because of the movie? those are some the dogs that end up in shelts.

Let me add one more thing. I grew up with mixed breed dogs and a few pure bred ones too. And yes, at times my pooch ended having litters, because back then we didn't alter our dogs, but the pups were given away to family members and friends.

But, by becoming emersed in the Yorkshire Terrier breed and in the sport of dogs it has given me a respect for the true dog fancier and their quest for breeding happy, well adjusted, well structured dogs and improving their breeds.

By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!!
__________________
I just have to say one thing here.... I was introduced to Lhasa's many years ago while helping a handler. As I reached into a ex- pen to rotate dogs one tried to bite me and the handled informed me that, that is not a Shih Tzu that is a Lhasa and they are a very different dog. After grooming for almost 30 years I have learned that statement several times over.....It is true that we can not lump all Lhasa as biters, but as groomers we know that this breed sends up red flags. We have seen them bite their owners too and yes there are other breeds that bite.

The worst dog I ever groomed was a Lhasa and I groomed him for 12 years and I kept asking myself why, as I stressed over it every time I saw his name on the appointment book. It was his owners, they were very nice and for some reason they loved this dog. Even though Bochi would bite them, they loved him.....So with a bit of drugs from his vet and a muzzle in hand we did the deed.
When I got the phone call that Bochi had gone to heaven I was sad for his family, but when I set the phone down I was smiling, rest in peace Bochi...

We all tend to put our personal experiences in about a breed, be they positive or negative. But, for the most part each breed has it's own set of statistics on temperament, which are more aggressive, which are sweet, wonderful with children, great hunters, etc. The Lhasa is overall not noted for being wonderful with children and a little bit unpredictable.

Pit Bulls are identified as a negative breed. I use to come home from work and find my neighbor's Pit Bull on my family room sofa, he'd come in through the fence and through the doggy door. This guy wouldn't hurt a flea....I'd have to rub his tummy to get him to move off the sofa and get him back home. This was exception.

And it does depend on how each dog is raised and socialized. But, we should always keep in mind when approaching any breed that they are first and foremost animals and can revert back to what every breed is noted for

lol my neighbor has a dalmation just like that! i come home and the dog is snuggled up with my tiny charlie on the couch. once my grandmother came to visit and i wasnt home, she called me and explained that she took the dogs out shopping as a surprise for me. i said "what do you mean dogS , we only have 1 dog!" and then she explained that she loaded both charlie and diamond the dalmation into her car and went on a shopping spree with both at petsmart! lol well i explained that the other wasnt our dog, she was fine with it and said the dog was a sweetheart, and the neighbors where pleased when their dog came home with some new toys lol

I personally do not think its fair to speak for a dog breed based solely on your experiences especailly if only with one dog. the lahsa my uncle had was just as friendly as could be and never once bit anyone and my uncle always paid me and my sister when we were little to give it and his yorkie a bath. we never had any problems.
All dogs can bite even the ones you would think wouldnt. i had a pekeigneese who would bite and she was so tiny. And my brother once got bit by a poodle, but does that mean i think all poodles or pekeigneeses are bad. nope i sure dont.
And as for the pit bulls and rotwillers and all those bigger dogs who get bad raps its not only how they are raised but i think that its cuz when they bite they often actually cause serious injuries which is something the poodle and the peekigneese didnt do, they never caused anything serious where we had to rush to the doctor or anything but had one of those dogs been a pit bull sure we would have had to go. So we hear on the news and everywhere about how a pit bull attacked someone etc its because they can cause harm. how many yorkies or other small dogs do you think bite people every day and no one says anything.

I have 3 mixed breeds. One a yorkie poo, was my first dog and came from a petstore. I paid 1,000 for him and was told he was a "designer" dog... it made no difference to me at the time because I loved this puppy so much. This was before I really knew about puppy mills, which infact my little baby boy Bentley DID come from. My next was Emma, a jrt/yorkie cross who was bred by a family in the country... they had a wonderful set up for their dogs and were very loving although I do not think they had health testing.. she was $250 for a yo-jack as they called her =/. Lula my lhasa/bichon is from a kennel.. she was a gift so I had no part in buying a mixed breed again.. although I love her and can't imagine life w/o her.

Anyhow, that's my background so as you can see I LOVE mixes. I think some of the prettiest, sweetest dogs I've met are mixes too... not to take a thing away from pure bred dogs.. I love them as well.

What I do NOT love is the way breeders turn these mixes out for profit w/o any health or temperment testing, knowingly way overcharging for them, and adding to a growing overpopulation problem. In my opinion, even though I have mixes and love them, we as a country do NOT need any more new breeds of dogs!! We are overpopulated and I saw that you said there are no small breeds in your shelters.. well what about petfinder.. there are transports, rescues, ect that will bring a dog to qualified homes from other shelters. I think some people would be surprised at the amount of these designer pups sitting in shelters basically on death row... that possibly began as a loved pet that cost 6-7-800 dollars or more.

The only two mixes that I see much hard work and dedication into being recognized as a breed are the cockapoo and the labradoodle and they still have a far way to go. But, I do know that many people work towards creating this breed responsibly.. while others simply slap the name on their mixes and make a quick buck. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Labradoodles in my local paper for 1200 and I can guarantee those people aren't working to better the breed.

I'm not being judgey or preachey here.. I love ALL dogs -- but the breeding of so many mixes is truly flooding out the shelters in my opinion and I see it getting a lot worse unless it is practiced in a responsible manner.

Oh, I just saw all the remarks on lhasas.. I have a mix and while she is head strong and likes to get her way.. she is one of the silliest loving dogs I have ever seen. But yes, they do need a strong owner who doesn't let them get away with things.

WOW!!! alot of information and I can't add more... Just wanted to say that there are alot of mixed breeds in shelters along with alot of pure breeds. :(
Some people just don\'t think before getting a pet and don\'t consider it to be a lifetime pet. :mad: They have them for a while and then Trade it in or get rid of it. Our world had become a disposable society.
Don\'t you all think? :confused:

I think to sum it up. One must do their homework on the breed they are interested in bringing into their family. Make a decision on what is best for their particular situation and go from there. Shelter dog, mixed breed or pure bred....small, large or in between....it\'s up to each of us.

I for one just wonder why some say they love a particular breed so much then turn around and cross breed it.