Originally Posted by YorkieShadow (Post 1095932)

Good post, But thats the same thread as what I was referring to.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77861

Her Thread was titled Is this Possible?
And only a few answered her question, The rest went to her website and questioned her about it instead.and about her females.
Now if She would of Titled her thread Should I breed and 8 year old female Or should I breed my 3 plus lb Female then I can see why she would of gotton all of the post on that. But she didnt. The people who posted turned her thread into something else then what she asked.
If people dont see the problem with that. Then Its never going to get better. Because right there is half of the problem in these threads. Sticking with the question. The other half is just people being rude.
So One minute people are thanking admin for reminding us, witch they should, but in the same breath they are saying they dont see a problem with what people are posting. So how can we fix some thing when some of the members cant seem to see the problem?

Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1096311)

I see the problem with some threads getting out of hand and rude degrading comments being made. But, I don't see a problem with someone asking a poster about thir breeding practices as long as it is not made as a rude comment. As far as not sticking to the question from spoiledrottenpo, some people took at look at her website and had some legitimate concerns. How could anyone see that she breeds an 8 yr old 3 lb something female and not express their concern? I agree that some of the posts did become rude but I don't have a problem with people simply asking the question.

Originally Posted by Gingergirlsmom (Post 1096336)

While I understand what you are saying completely, I havet a thought. If someone has a concern about OP that doesn't directly relate to question asked, how about a nicely worded pm...

something like: I saw your website/thread/whatever, and would like to offer my help with any questions you may have. I have been breeding for 27 years and have had many hard lessons along the way. One of these is that...

okay you get the idea.

We've all been guilty of speaking up about something we're passionate about. But if we come on too strongly, we just alienate those we are trying to convince...JMO (sorry, not a breeder and wasnt going to post, but I think this concept can apply throughout yorkietalk)

Originally Posted by Gingergirlsmom (Post 1096336)

While I understand what you are saying completely, I havet a thought. If someone has a concern about OP that doesn't directly relate to question asked, how about a nicely worded pm...

something like: I saw your website/thread/whatever, and would like to offer my help with any questions you may have. I have been breeding for 27 years and have had many hard lessons along the way. One of these is that...

okay you get the idea.

We've all been guilty of speaking up about something we're passionate about. But if we come on too strongly, we just alienate those we are trying to convince...JMO (sorry, not a breeder and wasnt going to post, but I think this concept can apply throughout yorkietalk)

Originally Posted by Gingergirlsmom (Post 1096336)

While I understand what you are saying completely, I havet a thought. If someone has a concern about OP that doesn't directly relate to question asked, how about a nicely worded pm...

something like: I saw your website/thread/whatever, and would like to offer my help with any questions you may have. I have been breeding for 27 years and have had many hard lessons along the way. One of these is that...

okay you get the idea.

We've all been guilty of speaking up about something we're passionate about. But if we come on too strongly, we just alienate those we are trying to convince...JMO (sorry, not a breeder and wasnt going to post, but I think this concept can apply throughout yorkietalk)

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1096354)

I totally agree it gets awfully harsh out there. You can disagree in a nice way. If you have a concern that is not a part of the original post maybe the best way to address it is a pm. Many a misconception can be worked out that way. No two people are going to see things the same way and we don't know all the circumstances in someones situation. We seem to judge first and maybe ask questions later. Sometimes it feels like there's a lynch mob forming and if anyone trys to call for calmer action they get bashed. I think I'm about ready to just be a reader because I still have so much to learn and just stop posting. I wanted to maybe help someone with the limited knowledge that I have acquired through the years but it's so risky. I'm just not sure that the stress is worth it. People should be able to get info without worrying about their grammar or personnal decisions that they have made on behalf of their dogs or their families. Half the posts in the breeders section don't even belong here and there does seem to be alot of strife. I hope this thread will help to improve that.

Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1096311)

I see the problem with some threads getting out of hand and rude degrading comments being made. But, I don't see a problem with someone asking a poster about thir breeding practices as long as it is not made as a rude comment. As far as not sticking to the question from spoiledrottenpo, some people took at look at her website and had some legitimate concerns. How could anyone see that she breeds an 8 yr old 3 lb something female and not express their concern? I agree that some of the posts did become rude but I don't have a problem with people simply asking the question.

Originally Posted by red98vett (Post 1097235)

with regards to certain red flags regarding breeding practices.... When the day comes that no one speaks out for those poor tiny girls who are far too small or old to be bred, then there is no point of even reading anymore. Someone has to speak for them, or those that don't know any better will think it's ok to do this kind of thing.

I think if it's worded well, people can offer help and advise and in some cases maybe someone will actually listen to them... but the sad reality is - people are going to do exactly what they want to do whether it be wrong or not. If no one ever says a word - how will the next person know what constitutes good vs bad breeding practices ???

I agree no one should be rude but I also think people will start keeping their feelings to themselves for fear of being attacked and that may not be good for the yorkies in the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by red98vett (Post 1097235)

After reading these posts...I thought I'd add something. I don't agree with attacking anyone ...there's ways to be tactful when we post even if it's to say something honest. I don't see how starting a new thread about something that we see wrong is going to ever help because what's the difference in posting in the original vs a new one ??

with regards to certain red flags regarding breeding practices.... When the day comes that no one speaks out for those poor tiny girls who are far too small or old to be bred, then there is no point of even reading anymore. Someone has to speak for them, or those that don't know any better will think it's ok to do this kind of thing.

I think if it's worded well, people can offer help and advise and in some cases maybe someone will actually listen to them... but the sad reality is - people are going to do exactly what they want to do whether it be wrong or not. If no one ever says a word - how will the next person know what constitutes good vs bad breeding practices ???

I agree no one should be rude but I also think people will start keeping their feelings to themselves for fear of being attacked and that may not be good for the yorkies in the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by natalienicole (Post 1097998)

maybe we should have a post that stays at the top that says things like that. Maybe like rules to responisble breeding. with such things as breeders here on yorkie talk beleive in breeding females of no less than 5 lbs, there is no such thing as a tea cup etc. and all those other answers to questions people keep asking which keeps starting this same discussion over and over again. Maybe if we just took care of the answers to those questions right away in a post that said read before posting here section. People would only have to read to see waht the opinions are and moral rights are to the dogs that they are wanting to breed. I mean all the breeders who reply to questions like this seem to have the same answers. and i can see how they would get mad about such questions that keep repeating and they have to defend other peoples dogs to answer. I dont not though beleive that they should bite peoples head off or such when a question is answered. Im a firm beleive that you tell them no and start yelling at them they will just go do it anyway. instead people should take a nicer appraoch and teach them and answer the questions and people might listen more. and in the long run i think that is what they want and what is usually best.

Originally Posted by natalienicole (Post 1098073)

Im not saying i disagree im just trying to solve a problem. Guess its not gonna work. I just understand people are sick of arguing and i think its rightfully so.

Originally Posted by simonandhallie (Post 1094114)

Have you all forgotten what it is like to be new at something? Or to not have ALL the answers? Last time I checked with the world not everyone was perfect at everything.

I am so appalled at the responses given in this section I actually feel like I need to hover over the new members who are asking LEGITIMATE questions so they don't get trampled onby some of the members here. I really hate feeling this way and I feel really sorry for the new members who have to read some of the comments here.

This forum is an educational community but how can people learn if they don't ask questions? And how can those questions be answered if most of the responses are full of sarcasm, rudeness, and attitude?

If you are not planning on responding to the poster's questions/comments then move on to another section. If you have the knowledge to reply please do. Even those of us who are not breeders enjoy the opportunity to learn.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 1104763)

Someone posted a pic of a pup, I viewed the pic WITH MY EYES (um, not hers) and she posted in the thread that I WAS WRONG.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 1104777)

Bah! It should have read:

Someone posted a pic of a pup, I viewed the pic WITH MY EYES (um, not hers), stated my opinion of what I saw and she posted in the thread that I WAS WRONG.

Originally Posted by red98vett (Post 1097235)

After reading these posts...I thought I'd add something. I don't agree with attacking anyone ...there's ways to be tactful when we post even if it's to say something honest. I don't see how starting a new thread about something that we see wrong is going to ever help because what's the difference in posting in the original vs a new one ??

with regards to certain red flags regarding breeding practices.... When the day comes that no one speaks out for those poor tiny girls who are far too small or old to be bred, then there is no point of even reading anymore. Someone has to speak for them, or those that don't know any better will think it's ok to do this kind of thing.

I think if it's worded well, people can offer help and advise and in some cases maybe someone will actually listen to them... but the sad reality is - people are going to do exactly what they want to do whether it be wrong or not. If no one ever says a word - how will the next person know what constitutes good vs bad breeding practices ???

I agree no one should be rude but I also think people will start keeping their feelings to themselves for fear of being attacked and that may not be good for the yorkies in the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1095503)

I wasn't sure if I should post my opinion or not since it varies from most here but here goes.

I see a lot of so called breeders come on here and mention that they engage in the most horrible breeding practices. I have seen them talk about breeding their female every cycle, breeding older females, breeding 3 lb females, and the list goes on. I would expect nothing less than for the reputable breeders on here to question these practices. Part of being a reputable breeder is a love for the breed and no one could read these posts without saying something.

A lot of people read these threads, not just breeders but those who are thinking of breeding and those who are looking to buy. They learn from the responses to these posts. What would they learn if a breeder posted that they let their pups go home at 6 weeks (for example) and no one said anything? They would learn that this is a safe and acceptable practice.

To use a recent example, a breeder recently came on here and mentioned that she was going to breed an 8 yr old female who was around 3 lbs. Some of the others on here questioned that and rightly so. I hope that anyone thinking of buying a pup from her reads those posts and thinks twice. Granted some of those posts did get a bit rude but as for those breeders that questioned her methods, I applaud them for it. I hope that the breeder in question will now chose to research her decisions and change her practices because she obviously loves her females very much.

That being said, I do not think that anyone should respond to a post in a rude manner or engage in name calling and I have seen it get out of hand and the OP of a thread becoming defensive. However, I think that the only reason this happens is from the passion that everyone feels about these dogs and the strong emotions that are involved. What I would really hate to see, is this board becoming nothing but a love fest for anyone who just wants to get a male and female together instead of being an educational tool.

Sorry for the long post. I am not a breeder but I did grow up in a breeder home and I have done over 79 rescues. Many of my rescues are the result of an irreputable breeder or one that didn't do their research and I just feel really strongly about the issue of education for the breeder and the buyer.

Originally Posted by sylvan (Post 1106751)

This is an excellent post. Yes, opinions vary on many issues...but there are basic principles of right and wrong. If experienced, reputable breeders cannot point out issues that should be addressed, the educational aspects of this site will diminish. Pm's only benefit the recipient. Many people read here without posting and hopefully learn about things they would not be aware of otherwise. I did not learn what I know from someone patting me on the head and telling me only what I wanted to hear...thank goodness.

Originally Posted by simonandhallie (Post 1094114)

Have you all forgotten what it is like to be new at something? Or to not have ALL the answers? Last time I checked with the world not everyone was perfect at everything.

I am so appalled at the responses given in this section I actually feel like I need to hover over the new members who are asking LEGITIMATE questions so they don't get trampled onby some of the members here. I really hate feeling this way and I feel really sorry for the new members who have to read some of the comments here.

This forum is an educational community but how can people learn if they don't ask questions? And how can those questions be answered if most of the responses are full of sarcasm, rudeness, and attitude?

If you are not planning on responding to the poster's questions/comments then move on to another section. If you have the knowledge to reply please do. Even those of us who are not breeders enjoy the opportunity to learn.