As far as genetics, wouldn't both parents have to carry the recessive gene in order for it to turn out in the litter? So why would you spay one and not the other?
I was not saying spay the female or male that produced it.I said definatly spay the blue pup that was born.Would you spay both female and male if they had a blue or off color pup if they were your breeding pair?Or would you try them with other females and males?Just curious what ya think about it all.
I honestly do not know if both woudl have to have the recessive gene.I have talked to alot of breeders about this and they all have different opinions about it.I think it is strange that there is so many of them and some of them coming out of good bloodlines?

1 . the female and male were tested prior to this breeding being the first time breeding took place on my property ...
2. is tehre a test that determines gene for the blue dominant before breeding ???
((if so I've never been told or have even heard this one before being a breeder for 8 + yrs I think I would have been told mentored of the fact or read this somewhere ....

3. I don't now nor never have intended to breed anything other then standard for this breed ...
4. I bought a blue before not knowing the alpecia (SP??) defects of the color or even the word ... just wanted the pup ... Raised blue dobies before and never had a problem with my male or female .. skin or health ...


I will try to breed her again with anotehr male and if this does persist she wil be spayed .. no question about it .... I'm sure that neither I nor the person in which I got her knew of **since she has never produced a litter ** of this genetic flaw in either dog or bitch ...
not her fault not mine .. it happens

I personally do notknow what to think of this .. I have had pups from the male and no blue pups /have just recently bred him to a bitch Ive had for 8+ yrs and we will see . Ive never gotten any blue born pups from her nor any other off color .. so I figure it might have something to do with this female or the combination of the two dogs together .. so the blue pup is not going to be left as is he will be nuetered . MY main question is this

***** should I or should I NOT spay the female pup from a blue producing litter ????? ****

again please remember I opened this thread for education not a debate ... when it gets into a debate I will stop Posting ...i dont intened to argue with anyone about this ....Not necsarily quoteing anyone on this OK ....
just replying to the thread let me make that perfectly clear ..
educate dont debate this ..

I understand your question and not know much about this subject I would think that it would be desirable to spay the female pup from this litter. If her litter mate has the gene then she is most likely a carrier of the gene. Wouldn't you think?

Well this would be my thinking yes .... I'd be more apt. to believe she'd have the gene ... as well as we already know that he does ...

Whether the actual dogs who produce this are full ... well I'd think they are .... all dogs can carry recessive genes can they not ...???

another good question to have answered .
Thanks

I cannot tell you what to do with the female for I do not know.She would probably have to be bred with the male that has it also I guess I honestly do not know Not enough research on this and I wish there was.The two I have had were males,I know RIni had a female but I wonder if it goes mostly with males also,for most postings are about male blues and not females?
I have seen the blue dobies only in pictures.Mine were big and FAT little guys also but turned out about 6 pds full grown.

The only two blue born pups that I know of were also male we might have a**whats the word Im looking for here ..... with always being male ... Ive not known of any females so far ...
anyway ... the smaller of the two the girl who is black and tan is faultering so looks like I will only have the male BLue born pup left ... this happens .... she has been supplimented every day but too tiny .. hate these tinies people .. do not like dealing with them .. she will definitely be bred to anotehr male next time NO DOUBT ABOUT IT >>
thanks

One of my friends had a "blue" Yorkie that lived a very long and healthy life. She said he had always been blue. Her brother raised Yorkies and they were always a steel grey (or blue). She didn't know that they are usually born black and tan (or gold). Her dog had a great coat also.

Sorry to hear about your little one.Maybe it will pull through yet?
So I am not the only one that has had blues and then got in a full coat.But mine turned black and did not stay the grey or blue color???? And not all the blues have problems.
Jillian is the only female that I know of that has been blue (Rini's).And she did have hair loss as an adult and had other problems also.But like I have said before with yorkies look at all the problems they can have without being the wrong color.I am not saying it is okay to breed for them just defending the little stinkers for it upsets me when they talk bad about them for they are yorkies non the less the only difference is their coats, and some do have health problems.If you go to sick and injured look at all the health problems they have without being blues reds etc...So if you get one in your litter it is not the end of the world they are not a heartache or anything else they have been called .They are misfits I guess.Nicer way to put it.
But I do wonder how we can get these off colors out of good bloodlines???????

I do know of a lady that breeds for the reds in Iowa.She has had a couple that are ill all the time always something wrong with them.They have shorter hair on them But people want them I guess and she sells all her litters.I would never buy one.Some of these breeders do not care about the off colors they sell for the rare color ,think it is something special.I for one keep in touch with my babies when they leave and still worry about them today for the future of them (health wise) I am the one who bred them so I am responsible.
Maybe the gene pool is too mixed and that is why we are getting these colors out of good bloodlines???
I for one was very upset seeing those colors in my whelping box but nothing you can do about it but hope the little ones are healthy .But you get over being worried and wondering how they are going to turn out.What will happen will happen.I just thank god mine were okay and healthy to this day.The males seemed to be very big and I thought they would be very big boys but they did not, they are about 6pds today but when they were little they were MUCH bigger than the rest of the litter.
Is your little guy a big boy also????
Any one else have any input on this? Sylvan ,Tx shopper or yorkie rose???

I have tried real hard not to say this but just feel it needs to be said. I am certainly not trying to offend anyone but if this a recessive gene that is in both parents and pups, I don't feel that any of them should be bred again. Even if the pups you are producing/selling don't show the signs of the condition, there is a good chance that it will show up again farther down the line. Probably the reason it is showing up more & more is because more standard looking pups are carrying the recessive gene. The only way to stop this is to not breed any of the animals that have produced a blue born pup or were in the litter with a blue born pup. That truly would be breeding to better the Yorkie breed.

I know that is not a good money making avenue but it would be best for the breed. Sorry if I seem cold, I truly am not. I just want the best for the animals affected. Good luck to you.:)

No offense taken at all this thread is for information and trying to understand what is going on with these off colors.Any ones opinions are welcome.
Seems alot have different opinions on this.
Hard to say to spay them though for I know very reputable breeders that are using the reds and chocolates as breeders.Males and females!
I wonder if they will in the future have a test for this gene?????Or do they now not that I know of!
Some of these colors are coming out of good bloodlines also.So I guess I cant say to spay them,it is everyones own choice what to do with their own situation.So to completely get rid of these off colors you would have to spay the whole pedigree line then, for you never know who it came from??? And I do not know anyone who would want to do that!
There is no blue in our lines either so where did it come from?????

Ok let me say this .. and I mean this with all of my heart .. I agree with parts of every thing said here ... MY OPINION .... and I agree that everyone has one OPINION that is... I want to educate here .... and so far its been very benificial to me to learn what Ihaev already .Ive taken a good hard long look daily at my lilman .. and he is a sweetie ... and I love him even though he is not completely right in color ... dont like hissmall size but guess I will deal with that ...as I deal with other things life throws my way ..
Ive taken some picts ** I know didn't finish my train of thought here but oh well this is me take it or leave it .. ** he is now looking more of a chocolate hue or a deep deep dark grey funny color he is becomeing ...
here are some picts help me determine this color I'm so confused here

didn't mean to get so political there LMAO ... ok I love MY yorkies .....

we are all a piece of the puzzle ... where we fit in eachothers lives is just as confussing as the puzzle itself ... but it can be aranged into a beautiful picture

Oh my goodness he is tiny,and quiet adorable if ya ask me.He does have that mousey grey coloring .Ours turned the chocolate color so maybe yours will turn out like mine!!!!!!!With full coats and NO health problems to this date!!
I am in total agreement with you!
Thanks for posting them pics and PLEASE keep posting pics of the little man as he grows.Is that a male or female that is the black color did he have a sister or brother?Or is that him in the first pic.The lighting can change how they look also do you not agree.Mine were very silvery looked like weimers when they were born yours does also.

Hey he had two sister in the litter also and then him with his silvery brownish tinting .. he was silvery but in the light looked almost brown too .. and now he is looking very dark greyish brown .. amazing color .. **DUCK**
he is a cutie pie .. but his momma isn't wanting to stay in her bed so am having to put her in a crate and locking her in for an hour then out for 30 minutes to eat drink do her bisness and then back in to stay with him but she is a spoiled lil brat too wants to be pettied and sit my lap and all that stuff ... spoiled i tell ya .has her special place to sit and lay and her special foods and snacks and all that too yeah spoiled wheeww she makin me work LOL

all of the last pictures i posted were taken today of him that is all different shots of him .... one pict he looks almost black not true color lighting messed with that shot the tru coloring is the next three picts that is what I see here with my own two bad eyes ** I did say bad .***
LMAO

In the pics yours looks more like a chocolate yorkie than a blue born. Even though the color doesn't meet the standards, the health outlook is better.

I think it would take a geneticist to be able to tell you which dogs to remove from a breeding program. Of course, if you wanted to be 100% sure you would never contribute to a blue born being born again then all should be neutered or spayed. I know I would never breed the parents again, but don't know what I would do if I was a "business" breeder. I consider myself a hobby breeder who has the occasional litter so it wouldn't be any problem for me to sterilize both since they still have value to me as pets. Just reading my own sentence, I think I would sterilize them both and find pet homes for them to improve the your breeding stock since they will be putting out a lot of puppies and those puppies will have puppies. If you're a serious breeder then I think that is probably the right thing to do, but I wouldn't judge you if you didn't.

I breed a lot more birds than dogs. If I have a problem with a pair then I don't breed them. Since birds mate for life, it's not like I could put them with a different mate even if I wanted to. I also like the fact that if you put two species of birds together like a Pacific Parrotlet and a Green Rump Parrotlet - they will mate and produce babies; however, all the babies will be sterile, so I guess this is nature's way of saying don't mess with perfection! I'm getting off subject, I think this would belong in "do you like designer dogs"!

Anyway, I hope your pup doesn't have any of the negative health problems that I've heard about. Please, keep us posted and let us watch her grow up.

Lacys Mom- I used to raise parakeets Love birds my sister also raisies many kinds of birds owlfinches canaries etc...I would sell mine to a pet store.Do you sell yours out of your home?

I raise Pacifiic parrotlets, world smallest parrots in the Amazon family. I raise the normal green, blue, american yellow, yellow lutino, albino and american white. They have to be kept indoors so yes, they are all bred inside my home and sold from here. The pet stores want them so young and not all the employees are knowledgeable about handfeeding and then they close overnight so I haven't placed any in pet stores yet, but have definitely been considering it. At first, I had only a very few babies born, but now after over five years of breeding I am having quite a few babies yearly so I will have to start shipping and selling to pet stores soon.

well I appreciate your comments .. thank you .. I'm not being sarcastic I really mean that ... and what I am about to say is not intended to annoy anyone i'm just stating a fact in the breed and the registry i have here ..

Ive had several akc dogs in my years and Ive had a number of apri dogs in the last few years . and Ive had numerous ckc dogs in my time ..

THis is the first time i have ever had any off color dogs born that did not in some way meet a part or all of the standard .... and out of akc registered dogs ... I find that amazing and off ***for this to happen NOW out of akc dogs .I just find this odd... and don't know what this is telling me I know I dont like this at all not one bit but what has happened down the line in these 4 dogs Ive gotten this year to produce a blue/chocolate born pup when Ive never had this in my lines in all my years in the breeding BUSINESS . and it does not matter what catigory you put yourself in you me and the millions of others are IN THE DOG BUSINESS like it or not you are too ... A bird breeder is in the business jsut as pet store owners and otehr breeders .. all I am saying is this as long as there is a market for something there is going to be some one in THE BUSINESS !!!! and you and the rest KNOW that I am right in this .

Now about them being in my lines ... well no one knows when they buy a dog what is behind that dog other then what a breeder tells them of what they know personally ... had she known Im sure she would ahev told me .... Ive known her a long time . she along with myself are both very disappointed . as she knows what I stand for behind these breeds not just Yorkies ... but all of them she knows that I want the standard as much as the next one does ... and we both work hard to accomplish this to the best we can for each litter that is born .. we are not in this to create designer dogs .. I never have ... we are not in this to mass produce ... never have , we are in this and I speak for myself here ... for the reason being producing close as possible standard of the breed ... not these creatures who haev shorter legs .. longer backs over bites ... under bites ... shunts leg problems . or any of that ... NOT ME .... NOT MY STYLE ...
I'm not knocking designer dogs . I dont critize someone for what they do in their own business .. its just that thier business ... I'm not mad I'm baisiclly stateing facts of what does go on in this business with each person it is different ... each breeder is different to some defgree ..
no again I'm not knocking a registry or a breeder or the like ... jsut stateing facts as I see them ... JMO
I do hope lil man will be a healthy pup in adult hood .... and I will be the one to see if this happens or not .. and i will be the one deciding his faite not anyone else .. I have bred the male once before this litter and the pups are fantastically beautiful pups ..I have bred him once more to a akc bitch that Ive had for 9 yrs and she has never produce anything less then what a typical yorkie has always been .. and yes I've kept dogs off all my litters / have not jsut sold them off soon as they are ready to go ...

I will be the one to decide what happens and wht does not ... Spaying a dog or bitch .. because they produced a already known recessive gene is not logical .... PRoducing demodectic mange in some breeds is logical and part of that breed but breeding for that is just plain ignorant JMO ... I don't breed for blue never wanted it chocolate in yorkeis no never wanted it .. breeding for other hereditary faults no never wanted any of them but they do happen in every breeders lines occassionally . they also have CULLS ... but most times don't like to admit this .. I don't mind admitting it it helps me to learn why and where and who's of my lines ...

BIrds .. well I dont know much on this subject oth3r then Ive owned a few types of birds and know its not for me to do this ... Ive owned green winged macaw , Sun conoure . Green cheek conoure **still own ** and cockatiels and know birds are not for me unless just one ... MY doodle bug he's my angel ..well I call him mine the day I bought him my Grand Daughter was with us nad he bonded with her because she held him ***17 months old she was at the time ** and he loves her and has a fit when she comes over to visit andhe bites me LOL but I take careof him for her and when she gets olde enough to have her own place and doodlebug is still alive he will go to live with her since they have this bond .. she creid for this bird and he knew it and they love each other .. and yes I give ehr what she wants always will ... Spoiled yes she is much like my lil doggies . sorry this got a little long ..
thanks

New Picts Of Baby Brown Lol
 

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