Help Please
 

My Autumn had pups yesterday and only two made it. Today one pup wasn't looking so good. He is the smallest of the two. He was nursing fine this morning and then he seemed to not be able to latch on. I started supplementing hoping this would help him.

Then his mom tried to smother him???!!! After she did that he wen't down hill. I have tried to get him to drink from a dropper. His mouth is way to small for a bottle nipple and I have never tube fed before.

I called my vets home and didn't get an answer. I am waiting to see if he calls back. Earlier my pup wasn't even trying to crawl around. I pottied him and got him warm and now he is moving around and opening his mouth and sleeping.

I hope he is improving!!!! I'm bumping this up for you

I'm sorry your litlte guy is not doing well.
Sometimes the moms know when a pup is fading..she will push it a side or try to bury it.
Just keep working with him, keep him warm ..
He may have gotten weak and was not able to latch on to nipple, just keep trying to get him to latch on the nipple.
You might try to put a small anount of nutri-cal on the nipple it may give him enought energy to suck.
and contact the vet to see if he is dehyrated.

You need to make sure you are keeping them warm with a hot water bottle or heating pad on low. Puppies are unable to regulate their body temperatures. Never try to feed a chilled puppy, you must warm them first. They should be eating about 1 ml per ounce of body weight every three hours around the clock. If they are too weak to eat then you will have to learn how to tube feed to save them. Your vet can teach you how. Are you feeding Esbilac? How much do they weigh?

how's he doing??????

I am pretty sure he is dehydrated and I told the vet that. I think I need a new vet.

Ok I am pretty sure he has a cleft pallet. The roof of his mouth doesn't look like it is closed like his brothers. I have never dealt with a cleft pallet before. Could this be why his mom tried to kill him?

I have a cleft baby right now that I;m bottle feeding.

He is still fighting but I can only get him to swallow a drop at a time. I am using a heating pad to keep him warm. I know he hasn't gained any. And my vet didn't pay much attention to the pups when we were there. He was more concerned with checking Autumn over and making sure she hadn't retained a pup. I asked him to look them over and he just said get them home, settle mom down, and get them nursing. He weighed just over 2 ounces yesterday.

The other pup is doing great and still with mom. the other pup is nursing well and gaining...he almost looks fat!

Poor little guy..
Softly pinch the back of his neck if it stays up ..or if it is slow to return to normal then he is dehydrated...Good luck
Also sound like it's time for a NEW VET..

Most vets prefer to put a cleft baby down, but I don't agree with this. Breny and Joker's mom and others have been able to feed successfully. I don't believe the Mom knows when a baby has a cleft, she only knows it isn't thriving. I've never had one try to smother a baby, but they will allow one to go off on it's own and become chilled.

Yes I did that. I also pinched the other puppy's neck and I noticed the difference. The other puppy's goes back to normal quickly and this ones doesn't. I found a puppy formula recipe on another site and I mixed that up and have been feeding him it drop by drop. And I did get him to have a bowel movement after feeding him the last time.

Also, my husband and I were wondering...we lost two pups at birth yesterday and one wasn't developed properly...we were wondering if my vet may have caused the problems we are having by giving Autumn a flea treatment while she was pregnant? We had questioned him on it but he said she needed it?

She tried to smother him twice and I took him away. And she kept shoving him away from the other pup.

He is sleeping right now. Not crying or acting like he is in pain or anything and he is warm. He just ate a few drops for me.:(

Everything I have read say flea treatments can cause birth defects.
I will not use any on my pregnant girls...

That is what we thought. Her last litter she didn't have any troubles with. But the only difference between last time and this time was our vet insisted on a flea treatment.

Also alot of the heartworm meds can too..I use interceptor because it's safer then some of the other one.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that with the HW meds either.

We just tried feeding him again and he tried to nurse on the dropper. He hasn't been trying to do that all afternoon. He is warm and wiggling around more than he was too. I am hoping that is all good signs!

Will he always have the cleft pallet or will that grow closed?

Cleft Palate help
 

I posted the recipe I'm using in the YT nursery. It has 11 calories per cc verses 1 calorie per cc in the canned formula. I will help you anyway I can if you want!!!! My baby is 7 weeks old tomorrow.

Thank you! The recipe you posted is exactly what I mixed to use. I found that earlier and I do thank you for posting that!

He is a bit more lively. He is also now showing interest in nursing/eating where I couldn't get him to hardly open his mouth before. Would it be wrong for me to try to get him to nurse on his mama? If she would let him?

Also, you are you bottle feeding or did you start out tube feeding?

Description or definition:
Cleft palate is a skeletal disorder occasionally seen at birth in puppies of all breeds. The palate is made of two parts: the soft palate at the rear of the mouth, which is made mostly of muscles, and the hard palate at the front of the mouth, which is made of two bony plates. Normally the plates fuse at their middle juncture during fetal growth. A cleft palate results when the bones forming the roof of the mouth do not grow normally. This results in an opening in the roof of the mouth that communicates with the nasal cavity. The slit can vary in both length and width from a very small hole to a cleft that involves nearly the entire roof of the mouth.



Cleft palates can occur with or without cleft lip, also know as 'harelip'. Cleft lip occurs when the tissues that form the upper lip do not join in the middle.


Symptoms:

The defect is present at birth. Since the palate separates the nasal and oral cavities, puppies as young as one day old will often have milk come out their noses as they nurse. Other visible signs are:


Fluids e.g. milk coming out the nose during feeding
Sneezing
Coughing/gagging
Snuffling
Rhinitis
Pneumonia (due aspiration of foods)
Poor weight gain
Stunted growth
Inability to feed properly

Diagnosis:



Cleft palate is suspected when milk is seen dripping from a puppy's nostrils during nursing. The diagnosis is made by visual examination of the roof of the mouth. When the cleft is very small, x-rays might be necessary.




Treatment:



Mild problems may not require any treatment. The only possible treatment of severe cleft palate is to surgically close the hole by using surrounding tissues (bone and mucus membrane).




Prevention:



Environmental Conditions:



Dr. Lowell Ackerman DVM, The Genetic Connection, says that cleft palate and cleft lip can result from either hereditary or environmental causes. The environmental causes include administration of drugs such as corticosteroids, metronidazole, or griseofulvin during pregnancy, among other possibilities. Wide Smiles, the human cleft palate organization, also cautions about exposure to pesticides, herbicides, and other chemicals during pregnancy. Fever and illness have also been known to cause clefting.

Most of what is known about prevention of clefts is inferred from human studies. It is know that excessive amounts of Vitamin A early in pregnancy, can cause serious birth defects. As Vitamin A is found especially in liver, it would be wise to give only very small amounts of liver to bitches during pregnancy pending more complete investigation of the effects in dogs. In human babies, supplementation with folic acid has been shown to be effective in reduction of birth defects including cleft palate.



The Genetics of Clefts:



Since the condition is normally inherited, affected dogs should be sterilized. Dogs that pass on this defect or are definite carriers should not be used for breeding unless there is known exposure of the dam to disease or toxins during the critical period for this particular litter.



Cleft lip and palate is thought to be an inherited trait in many breeds, but the exact mode of inheritance is only known in a few breeds. In Brittany Spaniels it is said to be autosomal recessive trait; in Westies it has been shown to be polygenic and does not have a single gene mode of inheritance. In the English and French bulldog, pointer, and Shih Tzu, the trait may be autosomal dominant with incomplete penetrance. In a 2000 survey, Boston terrier breeders reported 15% of their puppies have either a cleft lip or palate. Other breeds affected are cocker spaniel, dachshund, German shepherd, Labrador retriever, miniature schnauzer, and Pekingese.



George A. Padgett, DVM, of Michigan State University says there are twenty-two compounds known to cause cleft palate in dogs. He notes that the palate normally closes on the 18th through the 21st day of a bitch's pregnancy. He feels that only drugs given prior or during this time could be responsible for causing clefts. He makes the point that the drugs that cause problems with clefts are not generally available in the environment and they have to be prescribed and given to the bitch. He says that the end result is that most cleft palates in dogs are inherited rather than caused by things in the environment.

Links to sites about this disease:
http://www.upei.ca/%7Ecidd/Diseases/...left%20lip.htm

http://www.upei.ca/%7Ecidd/howare.htm#ad

http://www.siriusdog.com/cleft-palate.htm

http://www.bostonterrierclubofameric...hnotebook8.htm

http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=1498

http://www.canadawestieclub.ca/health/cleftpa.html

http://members.tripod.com/hennwood/id88.htm (care and feeding of cleft palate puppies)

http://www.cockerspanielinformation....es_in_dogs.htm

http://www.raot.org/information/genetic.htm (cleft palate by breed)

http://www.hayaji.com/faqCleft.html

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/cleftpalate.htm

http://www.westieclubamerica.com/hea...eftpalate.html

Website
 

I have a video on tube feeding but just don't feel confident enough on it or else I'd do it. I tried every chance I could to get Tia to latch onto her mom. But with the cleft it makes it impossible for her to latch on. Her mom, Zoey, though accepted her. I think she knew I was helping and we formed a "team" I beleive. She knew it was my job to feed her, and her job was to clean her and keep her warm and help her potty. She was great about it.

I'm going to post a web site for you as well. Please read this, as it will help out alot as well. Also, we have a thread going currently with our experiences with our cleft babies. I'm still needing advise and help everyday! We have good days and bad days and its been 7 weeks. its worth it though!!!! She's currently sleeping out like a log on my lap right now. Weighing in at only 12 oz at 7 weeks. Skinny as heck.

Here is the website. VERY helpful !!! http://members.tripod.com/hennwood/id88.htm

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know if I can help!

I don't think a cleft palate puppy can form a suction to be able to nurse. It would be like sucking through a straw with a hole in it. If it can nurse then it probably doesn't have a cleft palate. If the pup is able to nurse then there is no substitute for Mom's milk and the immunities it provides. I would definitely encourage nursing, if possible, just supervise.

Sherry,
That was very interesting and informative. thank you.

So the thing to do would be to make sure your bitch is treated for fleas before breeding.

Yes. Our vet does a once a month flea treatment with our girls so she had a treatment before breeding. Then both girls got the fleas in Mid July and it was awful. I asked to get Gizmo treated and my vet said we should treat Autumn too because if not then the fleas would get on the puppies. I will never treat another pregnant dog for fleas.

My next question would be, how do I know if the puppy inherited cleft pallet from the mother or the father??

And right now he is seeming active, is very skinny, but he is swalling his formula and if I do it one drop at a time, it doesn't come out his nose.

Willow Good luck to you and this little baby!!! I am sorry that the vet gave Autumn that flea medication! I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers!!!

Thank you! We are going to do our best!

Oh you poor girl...I am so sorry. You definitely need to find another vet. Any vet who pays little attention or regard to a breeder's babies is no vet in my book. I know how to tube feed but it is really something that should be "shown" and not "told". I would be happy to tell you but I don't want to be responsible for anything going wrong, because I would feel just awful if it did. One thing I would suggest you do is give the weaker baby a little benebac gel. It is beneficial bacteria and it aids in many things with young babies, especially those who are not thriving. A friend here on yt introduced me to this product last year and I have to say that we have had much better results with our smaller "runt" puppies since using this. If you would like more info please don't hesitate to pm me. Best of luck to you and your baby.

Admin: This is GREAT info and could we PLEASE have this as a sticky for people in the future?
Thanks!

Willow, I hope your little baby starts improving and thriving soon!!! I will be praying for you and the little one.

Awwww....:( :( :( sorry you lost babies - how big was the litter ?

and ALL THE BEST TO THAT BABY BOY - I hope he starts doing better....Good luck !

She had a total of four boys and we lost two.

Guys I have such an awesome report on Scooter to give that I don't know where to start!! You wouldn't believe the change since yesterday! Ernie can't even believe it and he was here the whole time!!

I stayed up feeding him about every hour and a half and he was still only taking a few drops at a time when I laid down on the couch next to his little PICU (Puppy Intensive Care Unit) that I made him. I slept from about 2 to 4 this morning and wouldn't have woke up to feed him I am sure if my son Austin hadn't woke up crying right about then. So I checked on him and fed Scooter and this time Scooter tried to nurse!! I am using an eye dropper..one that had come a long time ago with baby medicine for one of my kids but we never used it...anyhow...he swallowed two half of a dropper fulls for me and had lapped most of it out himself. AND NOTHING CAME OUT HIS NOSE!!!!

Since he is slow with the eating (or rather since he was) and I had to potty and burp him, it was a quarter to 5 am before I actually went to my room and crawled in bed. I left a small light on for Scooter just incase I needed to run back out to him...that way I could see lol...I figured I would get up with the alarm at 6 am but I didn't!! I over slept and it was almost 8 this morning before I woke up! So I immediately ran out to Scooter worried that I may have set him back in all the progress I had made with him. My he was a hungry greedy little piggie this morning! He ate another two half a dropper fulls (equalling one full dropper), his belly is SHOWING that he is eating...meaning he isn't skinny after eating now...I can actually finally see his belly filling up and I can't even see his ribs now!! His skin is much better too! Going back to normal more now than it was yesterday.

He is crawling around and his strength is coming back at a super speed! He is trying to hold his head up now and not just laying on his side, but is actually laying on his belly and curling up to keep warm. Yesterday Ernie, his dad, and I really thought this little guy was a goner! It just goes to show you, there is power in prayer and power in numbers! I have been thanking God all morning for giving him the will power to fight for his little life and I promised him that as long as he fought I would fight with him! And he is no longer gasping for breath. OH and he DOES have a good suck...I noticed that when he started sucking on my pinky finger this morning as I didn't think he would have much suction with the cleft pallet? He is proving me wrong on so many things! And I am glad!

I have pictures from the first two days and I took a picture today. Once I get them loaded I will post them but I am not sure if you guys will be able to tell the difference.

Ernie wants me to call him Lucky, but I think Scooter is a blessed little puppy because so many people have been praying for him and that is what has pulled him through.

Thank you everyone!