You be the judge...another bad breeder?
 

I had a lady interested in my puppies for quite some time. She was pretty picky in what she wanted, and that was perfectly okay. The timing was always off though and I either didnt have a puppy available or I felt I could not match what she wanted. She wanted a small adult at no more then 5 lbs tops. I just felt I could fit a puppy to what she wanted. My puppies I had no reserve on I knew would most likely be bigger. She wanted a puppy, and after waiting she went with another breeder who was local in a newspaper ad.
She was shown the parents, who were 3 and 4 lbs and was told the puppy she bought would get no bigger then 4 lbs. Both parents were perky earred too. AKC registered.
Anyway her puppy is 5 months old at 12 lbs with enormous floppy ears.
What do you think? Was she shown the real parents if you were guessing?

She could always request for dna to prove if they were the parents..

Sounds unusual. If the puppy got that big, shouldn't the breeder have been able to predict the large size when they sold it? I'd quess the small yorkies are not really the parents.

I think she was tricked! I know you can't always predict the size but that's quite a difference in size from the parents.

She very well could have been tricked.. But just because two yorkies are smaller in structure does NOT mean they will throw that into their puppies.. That is why it is so important to research your dogs pedigree and to know what you are putting together when you breed~

I think the breeder was not honest with her. Thats a pretty big size difference.

Dna
 

A puppy buyer can request a DNA, BUT they pay for it..it is not something that is done free of charge by the AKC or breeder.

Hi,
I am curious, I have read so many bad things about some breeders out there(None on YT). Do breeders have to be liscenced or registered as a breeder or can anyone be a breeder? I am also curious, If you run a puppy mill, then i heard you have to keep your dogs outside?? Is there no limit to how many dogs these people can have? What about the breeders who keep their dogs inside? Before I came to YT I never knew there was soooo very much to different types of breeders. Also, how can someone have so many dogs they don't know who the parent's really are? Am I just a flake? Should I already know all these things??

Kim, Pretty much anyone can be a breeder. Some "breeders" must be registered w/ the USDA if they have a certain number of dogs (usually a pretty high number). If you're USDA registered, you don't HAVE to keep your dogs outside (though many do) -- you have to keep your breeding dogs OUTSIDE of your home, but that could very well be in a separate kennel or something or in a "guest house".

Ok, so USDA breeders we should stay away from? That means Puppymill??
Thanks for answering me so quickly!!

I would stay away from any breeder who is USDA registered as I would want my baby home raised in the breeder's house. Here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25427 is a list of USDA registered breeders that you might want to check out. :)

A puppymill is BAD BAD BAD..do a search on the internet and you will see what i mean. IT's a bunch of dogs stuck in wire cages that are one on top of another that are bred year round..not taken care of..the dogs above them urinate and deficate on them the dogs are stuck in the small cages wheere they can't move around..several dogs per cage..the animals aren't treated by a vet ..they are straight up neglected and mistreated..it is horrible.

I bought one of my babies 8 months ago from a couple on that list from Oklahoma. Jason and Judy Wattenbarger of Blazing Trails Kennels. I didn't know then that she was USDA, or even what that was. Do you think she is a puppymiller?

I'm not a hundred percent positive here..but they are supposed to have a kennel that fits the standard. It has to be inspected regularly and be up to code on everything..now from what i've heard recently that they aren't checked as often as they are supposed to be..but no it's not a puppy mill. I don't agree with kennels but that doesn't make them bad. There are IMO a few good ones that really care for their animals and take care of their facility..but that doesn't mean all of them do. NOw when i say i don't agree it's because it doesn't fit me and the way i want to breed. Just as the way i do it doesn't fit them..just do your research and also it helps to talk to someone that has purchased from that breeder before. I think that if you are concerned about the place you got her from..i think you can do a background check on that facility..but don't quote me on that..there are others on here that know alot more about that than i do..

Thank you for all this information. I am not really concerned about her(Princess), but I do want another baby in a few months, and this time, I want to do it right. I want to find the best breeder I can, and I want to make sure I do not support puppy mills!!
Princess has been to the vet a few times since I got her, and so far she is as healthy as can be. I just hate to think of her parents living in these Puppymill conditions, and thinking of thats where she was born, and lived for the first 10 weeks of her life. Before i found YT I was clueless, and I know there are probably many people out there who are the same way, they just don't know any better, and so they are supporting Puppymills and they dont even know it. There should be a commercial on TV or something. Some way we can let everyone know what I have learned since being on YT!!

I agree. The first time I seen a puppymill was a picture on here and i cried my heart out. It was THe worse thing i've ever seen. I was horrified.
There are quite a few breeders on here that come highly recommended..I've never purchased from them but others have. YOu might want to ask around. I know llksdolls has a litter that is due anyday. And I think she has a litter on the ground. You could ask to see her website.
It's amazing how much you learn off here isn't it. I have learned so much and i thought I knew alot before i came here.
Good luck on finding a new baby..you won't regret it..IT's so cute to see two of them playing..

IMO there are puppy mills, and then there are puppy mills. It is very unfortunte that the very organization that is supposed to be making sure that these animals are taken care of, the USDA, is the very same organization that forces breeders to create puppy mills.

If you have over (I believe) 3 breeding females, then you are supposed to house them in a sepasrate building thasn the family. Eho ae the looking out for, the dogs or th family. :confused:

Not every breeding facility, that is registered with the USDA, is bad, some of them take very good care of their dogs. But it is a shame that breeders have to break the law in order to keep their dogs in their houses.

Jeanie..i don't understand that law one bit. Why do they make them house them outside. You'd think they would rather they be in the home. It makes no sense to me..do you know why that is?

On the news thread about the 14 dogs that were stolen, he had more then 3 breedeing females, and they lived in their house right? I don't understand the law thing either.

It is very possible. Our oldest female and male are from two different litters in no way related. Both had parents that were 4-4.5 pounds. Our female is 8 pounds and the male is 11 pounds. So yes, very possible. I might add, they have made puppies together ranging from 4.5 pounds to 10 pounds, although the majority have been in the smaller range.

That IS a big size difference, but with all due respect, what really gives anyone here the right to decide and judge what is a bad breeder? I'm not saying she wasn't lied to, but no one here was privy to the conversations they had so we can't say that she WAS lied to.

Hi,
I am new to YT and I feel so bad because I didn't know any better and purchased my Yorkie from a pet store. Now I know she probably came from a puppy mill which is a total bummer. She is the greatest love of my life and she is healthy happy and has the best temperment. Am I the only one or an outcast here?? I want another one and now I have been totally researching it to death.

I am just learning too, but I can tell you that you have most definatly lucked out by finding this place. I have been here a little over a month, and now my family thinks I am some kind of Yorkie expert! LOL I can't stop quoting all the info I find on here. I'm sure they think I am just a know it all, and my husband thinks I am crazy because every time he sees me on my lap top I am on YT. Anyways welcome, and you will love it here. Oh, and I feel the same as you, so you are not an outcast at all!!!

I wanted to ease your mind here. There are still so many people out there that don't know about puppymills and pet stores. I didn't till I came online. So at one time I thought selling to a pet store was a good thing and probably would of done it thinking nothing of it. the books you buy to breed don't all say anything about pets stores and puppymills. So actually there are alot of breeders out there that sell their pups to pet stores thinking nothing of it and these breeders could be good breeders but never have got online to know the differnece. I knew a lady that bred and when she was a teen she had shown her dogs so she knew the standard. Well when she was showing puppy mills weren't talked about or even known as much back then so when she got older she quit showing and just became a hobby breeder. So she sold to pet stores thinking nothing of it for years. Well she now has learned about puppymills so she will no longer sell to pet stores but I can tell you this she knows all about quality and breeding to the standard. So there are hobby breeders out there that don't know what we know. If you know nothing about a computer than nine times out of ten you won't run into as much info as you can on here. So your pet may of come from one of those breeders. I know the chance is greater than she came from a mill but not a hundred percent.

Not unless they looked at both sides of the pedigree and studied the dogs and knew a lot about breeding. It takes a lot of thought and study to breed Yorkies with so much to consider in this breed.

The purchaser is pursuing DNA testing thru the AKc on this puppy, she is also attending Small claims court against the breeder the first of April just a few weeks away. Ill let you know the ruling.
I really think she was lied too. I have a hard time believing a 12 lb 5 month old came from a 3 and 4 lb breeding, especially since he probably has a bit more growing yet to do.
I know about how sizes vary I have two sisters, one 10 lbs, one 3 1/2 lbs and there is no doubt they are full sisters. But mom and dad were both larger dogs. one 8 lbs one 10 lbs.
But I just have a really hard time believing a 12 lb 5 month old from 3 and 4 lb dogs............I guess when its on the other side of the spectrum, small dogs having great big dogs I dont buy........but I might be wrong and may have to eat my shoe!!!!!!!!!
I will let you know the outcome. I know the breeders name but will only reveal it if she is found guilty of misrepresenting and lying about the puppies parentage. Just for a heads up for Ohio puppy buyers.
If she isnt found guilty it will forever be a mystery.

It will be interesting to hear the outcome. I have my doubts that the breeder lied as I have an 8 pound female and an 11 pound male, both came from 4-4.5 lb small parents, from different states. So it is possible to get big yorkies from small parents.

Chachi is 10 lbs and his parents were 5 and 6 lbs. But I bet the granparents were bigger.

Well lksdoll.............I might be eating my shoe!

Hi Chachi

When you got your baby boy how old was he and how much did he weigh? Im just curious if he had a big growth spurt or if he was bigger from the start. ;)