Warning, Be Careful!!
 

Thought I would share something very interesting with all of you breeders.. I was notified today from a lady that I purchased one of my pups from.. She told me that another breeder here in Indiana had called her and ask her if she was able to some how find someone to get this pup from me if she would help her get full registration on him!!!!!!!! I was appalled! This person is a so-called show breeder! Needless to say the breeder of my pup was also appalled! I just wanted to share this.. NO pets will leave my home again without being altered!

Goodness....that really makes you think about how some people are. So coniving! I can't stand it! Be honest and feel good about it or don't bother is my motto.

Story not being told quite true. Thought I would give the rest of the story like Paul Harvey and clear up the air. Then you all can make up your minds.

I did call the breeder you purchased your new boy from. I asked if you had purchased him with limited registration or with full breeding unlimited rights.

I was told by the AKC that they will allow the breeder of a puppy who places limited on a puppy to change it from limited to full.

I have a 72 y/o client who is my friend who liked the looks of this kid when he was first advertised in the paper here in Indy and was checking for them. They have some Stardust and he would have worked nicely with the bloodlines that she has. I wanted to make sure that if Clara decided to look at your boy and if you had changed the paperwork from full to limited and if everyone was in agreement that she could get it changed back to the full regisstartion.

I did not want her to get burned with paperwork that she thought could be legally corrected at the AKC and could not. Clara has been looking for a nice male with the Stardust - She has a Buster daughter and thought that down the road this would be a nice compliment for her lines. She also was made aware that you had only had the baby for several weeks. She saw the ad that you placed on Hoobly for him.

She felt that he was not being gave enough time due to his age to be wrote off as not being show potential. She indicated that your advertisement does not state that he had anything wrong with his topline or that you were placing him as a pet. She has only had Yorkies for about 10 years-and is wanting to show. She had planned to have her Neice who shows Rotties ( and does very well) start her experience in showing if she had bought him.


I have also spoke with this breeder about purchasing a male from her for my self and told Clara about the young puppies that this Dawn (the puppies breeder) has. She told me about the little ones that are about4-5 weeks old. She did not seem upset with my questions about the registration matter on the puppy. She did say that you had purchased the kid and you could do what you wished with him.

Thank you very much for allowing me to give my side of the story. I am guilty of asking questions in a effort to protect another another person yes.
$1,500.00 is a lot of money for Clara to spend on a puppy that she might not have been able to show and breed. I had told Clara that I could not contact you for her ( Clara lives in Kentucky.) and look at the baby. I felt that Dawn( the puppies breeder) had very nice bloodlines and really seemed to have a lot to offer Clara. The baby being older gave Clara a chance to get up and go and to not have to wait on a kid to grow up.

If this had been the right situation- Clara would have made a excellent owner-for this puppy she loves her dogs and would have been tickled to have had a baby to take out and show. There isn't a week that goes by that she does not ask if I have found her a show male.

You lost the chance on meeting a new person who is true gem. She has a funny attitude, cares a great deal about all those around her. Does not get involved in the drama that she often sees going on here at YT. She lurks and reads the posts. We have made her afraid to join in. I wonder how many other people we have done this too-. It is sad that we are forcing people to take sides. People are afraid to buy a dog from this person or contact this person because that person does not like another person. Really makes you head spin. Are we out of control. Makes you wonder. Sure hope that YT does not become a breeding ground for this type of attitude.

I have not been posting for just the same reasons I listed above. I have been reading only. I am posting this just to clear the air.


Melanie, as a courtesy you could have contacted me by PM and inquired as to my reasons for contacting Dawn. I would have stated the sames things that I have indicated above. I wish only the best for the puppy and you in finding a forever home for this little guy. I feel sad that he is being moved around again so soon.


Sincerely,

I don't want to intrude ....but I also think this should have been handled privately first to get the whole story before someone who is a member here was posted about....the breeder world is so small that this could have been discussed privately... and it sounds like Kathy was only making inquiries to help a friend....

and it IS a shame that he is being shuffled around....I hope he does find a wonderful home.....

Enough said.. I know exactly what happened just as the person that done this.. This is a very underhanded thing to do, one that I would never have thought of, let alone do.. The BREEDER and I had already DECIDED TOGETHER what was best for this pup.. I also NEVER place a puppy without there being a contract.. If he had not been altered before he left my home an alter agreement would have also been signed.. But this incident has made me 110% positive that the puppies being placed as pets will be ALTERED before they leave my home.. Also if the so-called prospective buyer that was sending the middle man (person) to my home was such a wonderful person, why would they have been afraid?

This should make everyone think twice as I mentioned.. The person you may be placing your puppy/dog with may just be a middle man (person) for someone wanting the dog, they would also sign your contracts knowing that they have NO intentions of fulfilling the contract..

I only wanted to share this experience so that it may not happen to another breeder.. If it could happen to me and the breeder of this pup it could happen to anyone! Food for thought!

I did NOT at ANY time mention any names and will NOT mention any names.. I thought this was something that needed to be posted for other breeders to think about.. Like I mentioned if it could happen to me and the breeder of this pup, it could happen to anyone.. But if you only take a moment and read through all the threads you will come to realize that I would have had someone coming to my home, signing my contracts, LYING to me and taking my pup lord only knows where! The breeder of this pup and I do KNOW THE TRUTH..

This pup will NOT be leaving my home! This pup is in a WONDERFUL HOME!

I apologize Melanie - I must have misunderstood that he was for sale.....I'm glad he's in a good home

Melanie, read your post- would I have been welcomed in your home to look at this puppy for Clara -does not seem like it. I would not have asked or considered it. You make your feelings towards me quite clear.

You call me a - so called show breeder. How unkind to place that in print here on YT.

Food for thought. As a breeder I place a puppy who I feel has show potential in a show home- I would think that this means that in my judgment the baby may have what it takes. The new buyer has the puppy for less then a month and decides that they do not like it. If I look at the pup and think that he is being written off too soon I would welcome a chance to place it in a show home. Each of us look at things differntly- is that glass half full or half empty.


Does that puppy have a bad topline or is it something that I have done- or a goofy puppy stage. If the baby has sore feet they can walk funny ( being kept on wire) is he unhappy due to his enviroment who knows. I have seen them walk around like a camel when constipated- have some that just slouch until you put a show lead on them.

As I stated in my earlier post the woman lives in Kentucky- how nice it would have been for me to have looked at the baby and said. Yes or no this kid may be what you are looking for. From where she lives to Kokomo is a 8 hour drive. She could have made a trip that was not a look and see trip. I think that we have all made those long trips to look at something and then said what a waste of my time. Have I looked at other puppies for Clara that are in my area sure have.

If I have sold you a dog and it does not work out- I am going to be flexible and try to work with you and if there is someone else who shows a true interest in what I had intended for this baby - I am thrilled. If the baby is a pet then so be it. It was placed as a pet to start with. This kid was placed as a show prospect. It is hard to beleive that he fell apart in less then a month.

look at your lovely Trea- you wrote him off as a pet because he did not have both testicles and then wow he has both of them. Aren't you glad that you did not place him as a pet- you have a wonderful fella to take out and show that you have bred. He just needed that extra time.

I think that we need to be flexible and not so rigid. Contracts can be good and contracts can be bad. Depends on how they are written and what your intentions are when you write them. The biggest compliment that you can have as a breeder is to have people say- I want you dogs- be it for companion, show or breeding. If no one wants them what does that say to you.


If she wanted this kid in a show home then she could have become involved
in the process with you in finding him a new home. Dawn stated that it was your puppy and that you could do with it what you so desired. The matter was closed and dropped. It was left to Clara to contact you and see what you wanted to do with the kid.

I do not understand your middle man comment. I spoke with the Dawn a month ago and she told me about the younger babies at that time I asked if she had any older kids. I was told no. We spoke about the little kids again yesterday. Dawn lives in Southern Indiana- this is a closer drive for Clara. You are much further away.

I do not have a crystal ball nor am I a mind reader I will not make assumptions of your intentions. Please don't make assumptions of my intententions. If you wish to attack me please PM me. There is no need to do it on the public forum. It simply gives YT a bad rap.

I want to explain, sorry for the confusion.. The breeder and I did come to the agreement that WE would place this puppy into a LOVING PET HOME, because of the topline going on and off.. But after the underhanded actions yesterday this pup will NOT be leaving my home, he will stay right here where he is loved and given a wonderful home.. It would be a perfect world if we as breeders could keep every pup/dog that comes into our home, but that is not reality.. This pup shares my home with my other yorkies and sometimes if they are not going to be used in your breeding program or shown they sometimes deserve better! They deserve to live in a home with maybe just one or two playmates, they deserve to sleep with their owner every night, they deserve to go on vacation with their owner, etc.. Every good loving breeder does what is right for their dogs and they are not selfish because their heart breaks everytime they place a pup/dog and they do their best to find a LOVING FOREVER HOME WITH A WONDERFUL FAMILY! Wish I had a lap a mile long, but I do not.. My yorkies all get one on one attention and are VERY well cared for and always loved! But if I am not using them in my program or showing them they deserve better and a good breeder loves them enough to let them go..

As I stated before the BREEDER and I decided to place this pup into a pet home, the decision was NOT just mine to make! It was a pup from the breeders breeding and it was also her decision not just mine..

I also was stating a fact of what went on and I thought that it was a topic that needed brought to the attentions of reputable breeders to be careful and altering your pups before they leave your home is a wonderful idea and now has become a necessity to my program..

As an outsider and a breeder I have to say that I would be just as upset as Melanie is. I don't know Kathy or her intentions, so I am not making judgement on her. Obviously But I ever FELT someone was being dishonest and trying to get one of my babies I'd be just as livid. I don't fault Melanine for caring if that's what she FELT was going on. I have had people that tried to trick me and say all the 'right' things for a one of my puppies for breeding and it's really upsetting. Kathy, thanks for sharing your side of things. As for sharing lines. I'm sorry I don't agree with that. I know my statement makes some cringe. But personally I work to hard to take someone's word that they'll do the right by my puppy. If it's between friends, that's different. Strangers, NO WAY!

Melanie I am appalled but not surprised. I see this kind of thing all the time. In fact I know of another situation where 3 people were involved in purchasing a couple dogs and the breeder only knew about 1 buyer. I give the other 2 the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't know their names weren't mentioned to the breeder. There are many cases of misrepresentation going on out there and that is why ALL pets go out of here already spayed/neutered and I will not sell a show dog unless I know the person well. Another story just happening is a person busted for drugs and no one can find the dogs, although they know some died. Thank God I did not work with these people when they contacted me.

There are reasons that breeders are doing what I am doing and this is an example. Keep in mind also that there are reputable show people and there are people who show dogs. My only concern is protecting my dogs. Just alter the dog and find him a wonderful pet home which he deserves. That's where almost all my show dogs go. I just placed 2 show dogs in wonderful pet homes and am pleased as can be that is where they are.

I just neutered a lovely male yesterday and he will go to his new home once the incision has healed. Could he have finished his CH title? Probably. But he has a wonderful home waiting for him, where the couple is retired and want a dog to cuddle and love. I could count on one hand homes where I have placed show dogs. I will keep the best for myself and place the rest. But I am changing my policy to spay/neuter everything before it leaves my home. Then, there is no interpretation for error.
Melanie, sorry this has happened to you. But you have certainly learned very quickly in the dog show world that not everything is as it seems.
Julie

WOW! That is even scarier. Getting Biewers is what prompted me to s/n early because there is no other way to protect them.

I have been on this board only a few months but when you said, "Breeder in Indiana' I knew who you were referring to. I mean, how many breeders on here are from Indiana? i also think you should have taken thiss to private message or email. This board is no place for trashing people.

I dont' think that I have made myself clear.

So will try again.

Melanie bought the puppy for show about two weeks ago.

I saw the ad in the local paper and called the breeder Dawn at that time
Puppy had already been sold to Melanie. Spoke with her about younger puppies that she had. I was thinking about adding some Stardust as some
of my dogs had Stardust in the bloodlines.

Told Clara about Dawn and that this may be something for her. Clara has a Buster daughter and has some Stardust in the bloodline.

Clara calls me and says she sees and ad that look intersting on Hoobly would I check it out.

Go on Hoobly- it is the puppy that Melanie has bought from Dawn 2 weeks ago. No mention of being placed as pet or show. Just nice ad bragging up the dog and the bloodlines. I know from a posting on YT Melanie has stated that the puppys topline goes off and on. Have never seen puppy. Pass this on to Clara. Told Clara that I would call the puppies breeder.

I called Dawn the breeder of the puppy. I inquired as to what type of conditions/restrictions the puppy was sold under. Can Melanie resell the puppy for show or strictly pet. I do not know if the baby was sold with any written restrictions the only way I know is by asking the breeder. Can't be more direct then that. Asked if Melanie has a buyer who wants the baby for show can the kid be placed in a show home. Asked If Melanie has changed the puppy registration form paperwork to read limited from full and if Melanie and the breeder are both agreeable can the paperwork be changed back to open for the new buyer. (The AKC stated that the breeder has the right to do this.)

I am told by the breeder that Melanie has purchased the dog- it is hers. She has control over the issue. The breeder and I talk about the younger litter that she has.

I call Clara back and tell her- That the breeder sold the puppy to Melanie.
Sounds like it is being placed as a pet. That it would be doubtful if there would be a change of minds on the registration. That this puppy is not what she wants if she is looking to show due to the registration situation. She may want to wait for a puppy from the younger litter. Indicated to breeder that I would still be interested in looking puppy from the younger litter. Same thing that I told breeder when I had called and talked with her in Jan.

Told Clara that she could call Melanie and talk to her and see if she would consider show placement- but that I doubted it. Told Clara that I could not go look at this boy or ask Melanie any questions about the topline as it is not a comfortable relationship between us. Told Clara that if she wished to pursue anything on this puppy this is all that I could do for her. Clara did not contact Melanie.

I made no attempts to contact Melanie nor asked anyone else to in my behalf or on Clara's. This puppy was clearly not what she wanted.


Nothing underhand- up front- called and spoke to the breeder of the puppy. You can't get anymore up front then that. Puppy is to be placed as a pet- end of subject- the matter is closed. I simply asked questions to help a older woman make a intelligent decision and to not make a impulse purchase for a dog that may not be able to be shown. Not everyones knows the right questions to ask- and we are making these contracts so complicated that you better not sign anymore until you have a attorney look it over. What looks like black and white may have big gray areas that you do not understand.


This poor kid has already been sold once in Jan. I sure do not want to be part of him being sold again in Feb. and to be placed for sale again if he was not what Clara wanted or needed.

I firmly do not like impulse buying. I did not want Clara to do that.

Told Clara that is she wanted to talk with Melanie she would have to do it herself could not help her. I had done all that I could do- gave her list of questions to ask if she wanted to call and talk with her.


Told Clara that Dawn is closer to her- that she may want to go and look at those babies when old enough if she has not found one by then. Also have told her about two other folks on here who have Stardust bloodlines.
One has a male that is old enough for stud- the other male is not quite ready but will be soon. Have also suggested that she contact Susan .

So I guess this is the bottom line- Everyone who has contacted me about a puppy for a friend or has asked me questions about my dogs for someone else
is being underhanded. I will continue to think that there are a lot of good and nice people out there. I will continue to think that the glass is half full.
I will continue to try and help others when I can. I have had many a person ask me questions about what should they ask when buying a puppy and help them- I did not try and sell them a puppy from me- they knew what they wanted and what lines- I just tried to help them make a sound and solid decision that worked for them. I enjoyed the thank yous that I got.

I may think that you are not a very nice person and dislike the sound of your name. You might also be the person who has the dog that a person needs or wants. Will I give your name out yes. Will I try and help that person you bet.
I will not let my personal feelings get into the way. We all have to make our own personal choices on the style or type of yorkie that we are looking for. I have always thought that we were here for the betterment of the breed. I try and encourage you to keep the standard. I am too old at this time to wish to be part of the soap opera and drama that some seem to make out of everything and something out of nothing. I myself intend to go back to the enjoyment and fun that I had from my dogs. Life it way too short to be bitter
and caught up in all the intrigue. I will leave it to all those with the half empty glass.

As I have been called "this so called show breeder" hopes that all have a wonderful day.

One reason I can think of that people don't give full registration is because they don't want the competion. I know for sure that breeder's whether show or not just plain do not want the competion. Yorkies are not very plentiful and the fewer people breeding, the better for everyone. I know this for sure because it recently happened to me.ceeby's breeder promised me "pick of the litter" out of her litter with three females. She knew my intention is to breed someday and had even offered to mentor me. Came time to get the pup, I called. She never returned my call. All I can figure out is that she didn't want the competion. I live within twenty minutes of her. But, that's okay because I have purchased a female that I am very happy with. Why else would a person lie/ the only other good reason for a limited regitration that I can think of is if the female is going to be too small to breed. I have always said it is about the competion and I have drawn some heat from here over saying it but that's what I believe in my heart.

Kathy,
I do not see you as someone that was being underhanded at all. You contacted the breeder just as anyone else would have done to inquire about it. I'm sorry that you've been put on the spot and that people are trying to make you look bad.

And with the last paragraph that I quoted, I have nothing but respect and admiration for you. This speaks volumes about the kind of person that you are. :)

Wow, I didn't realize that this stuff happens in the show world. It's sad because I think all the good breeders should work together to better the beautiful Yorkie breed. But I guess that would happen only in a perfect world.

i'm not a breeder but i'm not quite understanding what's the big deal? what's wrong with having a more knowledgeable third party helping to ask the appropriate questions of a breeder regarding a puppy? when i was looking for a puppy, i found a breeder that lived near a friend of mine. since it was far away and i had no clue about what to ask a breeder and my friend has raised puppies before, so i asked my friend to checkout the breeder for me. it just makes more sense for my friend to call, ask the right questions, visit and check out the environment and legitimacy of the breeder, then report back to me with her input based on her experience.

as it turned out, the breeder wasn't what i was looking for. i'm glad i didn't have to travel hundreds of miles just to figure that out. now with that, am i being "underhanded" by sending a third party out on my behalf? or just "effecient"?

Think!
 

Think while you are reading the threads to this post..

If the "person" contacting the breeder of my puppy was NOT such an issue, why would I even know about it?? I know about it because this "person" ask the breeder of this puppy to do things that are NOT honest! The breeder contacted me to make sure that I was aware of what this "person" was thinking of doing! Like I said enough said..

Rude!
 

Is it possible that this "breeder" was making an issue out of nothing and possibly adding more or less to the story? You know...adding fuel to the fire that's been lit for a while now???

What you are not understanding is that reputable true show breeders like a couple of them on the YT forum.. Spend every waking hour bettering the breed, they spend tons of money showing what they have produced (how perfect a true yorkie can look).. They just do NOT throw two dogs together and let them breed.. When they breed for a litter it is to have another show prospect, NEVER TO SELL PET PUPPIES! Yes every once in a while they have a beautiful pet to place and many of us look at that pet and think "why that dog is beautiful".. But to a true yorkie show breeder the puppy/dog they just placed as a pet is NOT perfect and should not be shown, let alone bred.. Some true reputable show breeders have spent years and I mean years, sometimes 20-30 or more years perfecting their yorkies! That is not something to be taken lightly by just placing your hardwork with ANYONE on full registration.. I know this is hard for some people to understand, they think if they purchase a dog they have the right to do with it as they please.. Alot of people do NOT realize how much time and effort most of these true show breeders put into their dogs and never will.. Sad, but true.. Alot of people are NOT wanting to show they just want the lines to sell their puppies for BIG money, they just want the lines and will do whatever necessary to obtain them! I do NOT blame any reputable show breeder for altering everything that leaves their home, that is their responsibility to protect the breed they have worked so hard to make perfect!

I personally have only been in the yorkie world a very short time and have only shown on a limited basis.. But I have learnt by watching a couple of the reputable true show breeders in my town and they have my upmost respect and always will..

i am THINKING that the "person" is probably not very comfortable asking you directly about it unless it was absolutely necessary, and was more comfortable talking to the breeder of the puppy to get some basic information before determining how to persue the matter with you directly. the breeder of the puppy probably told you about it just so that you're aware of the situation, so that if someone calls you and asks about the status of the puppy's registration and possibly changing the registration, you wouldn't be blind-sided and wonder where this was coming from. but of course, this is all speculation on my part. and like i said, i'm not a breeder so what do i know. maybe in the breeders world certain forms of information gathering is a big no-no while others are fine. i apologize if my ignorance offends you. i don't mean to offend.

Melanie- Check with the AKC the breeder of the puppy could if she wanted to change a registration from limited to full on puppy papers. This is the breeders rights. Not mine or anyone elses. This under the AKC guidlines. As the new owner of the puppy it is your right to place it as a pet according to what you and Dawn have agreed to.


Read the posts - you want the baby placed as a pet- the breeder has agreed per your own posting. What is the issue. There is nothing short of GOD changing this. The issue is closed. That is why I told Clara it would be a waste of time to contact you. This puppy is being sold as a pet and she wanted a puppy to be sold.

The bottom line is that you have issues with me. That is your right. You seem to enjoying trying to drag this into a fight. It takes two to fight. You can hope but I am not going to fight or say anything unkind about you. If all this makes you feel better then I am happy for you. We all have our own needs and desires and goals in life. I do not intend to have this turn into the Hatfields and McCoys fight. The people who post here on YT deserve better then that. If it makes you a better breeder and show person to say unkind things about me go for it. If it makes anyone think any less of me as a person here on YT- so be it That is there right. We are all entitled to our own thought and opinions. You were asked to take this private- you chose not too.


Kathy