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-   -   Stickey post? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/30182-stickey-post.html)

YorkieRini 01-30-2006 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenray
I'm not real sure what a sticky is but am assuming it's a permanent place here for the thread. Since this question is brought up so much, I personally think it would be of benefit to have it handy somewhere that people could refer to.
Yes, to make the info permanent.

bettyeanne 01-30-2006 06:38 AM
My 2 cents ....
 
I think that any time good information, that an informed breeder is asked to repeat several times, is available .... it should become a "sticky" for immediate reference/consideration. If it's questions that come up time & time again .... just read the sticky & be done with it! ;)

PlatinumYorkies 01-30-2006 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRini
The registries are just to show how breeders that feel they want to protect their puppies by asking for limited registration are not really protected. For examply, UKC from what I understand ignores AKC limited reg too. I could be wrong but when I heard that that's what prompted me to just spay and neuter. It really has nothing to do with prices or registries but the fact that puppies you produce are still at risk to be bred buy someone. They don't have to register with anything to still do the samething.

Ok don't sticky it. Just thought it would help those that wanted to know if it's safe or not.
I understand where you were coming from, however that particular thread on early spay/neuter doesn't come off very positive.

bugaboosmom 01-31-2006 12:49 AM
Boy this is a tough one
 
Ditto Goldenray. I think we're all one the same page when it comes to trying to keep our precious pups out of the hands of some nasty mill or breeder. There's a lot of consideration and research needed.

SoCalyorkiLvr 01-31-2006 11:32 PM
For me, we need a lot more discussion on the issue before it is resolved as a "good" thing for "every pet pup" imo. I don't mind it being a "sticky" as long as the discussion can continue.

I mean we have not addressed the fact that some vets feel a dog has MORE health benefits from not being neutered, or the fact that there are alternatives to a full neuter as we in the US are used to. There is tubal ligation, removal of just the uterus in the female for example and vasectomy for the boys...all of which are less invasive, and less risky but still leave the animal incapable of reproducing. I would like responsible breeders to consider some of these options which I feel benefit the pups. :thumbup:

YorkieRini 02-01-2006 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
For me, we need a lot more discussion on the issue before it is resolved as a "good" thing for "every pet pup" imo. I don't mind it being a "sticky" as long as the discussion can continue.

I mean we have not addressed the fact that some vets feel a dog has MORE health benefits from not being neutered, or the fact that there are alternatives to a full neuter as we in the US are used to. There is tubal ligation, removal of just the uterus in the female for example and vasectomy for the boys...all of which are less invasive, and less risky but still leave the animal incapable of reproducing. I would like responsible breeders to consider some of these options which I feel benefit the pups. :thumbup:
Hi Kim!

As we know these pros/cons are facts. The support of a pro or con, is only matter of opinions. We can't know everything about it because we are not vets. But hopefully the info on a thread like this will prompt some questions to be posed to many vets. Which, in time, may increase popularity in the tough questions regarding ONLY the age and sugical procedure. We need ot give vets a push, or be the squeaky wheel to be more educated and well versed on the procedure at an early age and hone in on the pros/cons to help all of us make a better decision. This post is not telling anyone what to do, but to ask about the procedure. It all boils down to comfort levels and personal opinions based on what has been researched on the net.

goldenray 02-01-2006 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
For me, we need a lot more discussion on the issue before it is resolved as a "good" thing for "every pet pup" imo. I don't mind it being a "sticky" as long as the discussion can continue.

I mean we have not addressed the fact that some vets feel a dog has MORE health benefits from not being neutered, or the fact that there are alternatives to a full neuter as we in the US are used to. There is tubal ligation, removal of just the uterus in the female for example and vasectomy for the boys...all of which are less invasive, and less risky but still leave the animal incapable of reproducing. I would like responsible breeders to consider some of these options which I feel benefit the pups. :thumbup:
Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)

red98vett 02-01-2006 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenray
Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)

Thank you for saying this :thumbup: - and I think most agree with you. It's pretty obvious hearing from the many breeders out there that the benefits of S/N far outweigh any risks....it's such a common procedure and I think it sends the wrong signals to see someone saying don't do it.

txshopper73 02-01-2006 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenray
Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)
Great post! I to agree with what you are saying. If certain parts are left in, then wouldn't they turn cancerous? :confused:

goldenray 02-01-2006 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by txshopper73
Great post! I to agree with what you are saying. If certain parts are left in, then wouldn't they turn cancerous? :confused:
Very true Kimberly, they can get cancer, just like with us. So it prevents later uterine cancer, etc, along with preventing breast cancer and most others. You reduce the chances of getting any of those by altering the dog. Each time they come in heat you increase that risk. Once they have something go wrong and you are forced to spay, the dog's health is now compromised because of some other risk factor and the surgery goes from mild to extremely serious.

BamaFan121s 02-01-2006 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenray
Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)
I completely agree w/ everything you have said. I think that it is important that everyone examine both sides of the procedure, pros & cons, and make what THEY feel like it the BEST decision for themselves. I see more pros than the cons which are possibilities, but again, this is just MY OPINION.

bettyeanne 02-01-2006 06:30 AM
My vet highly recommended spaying by 6 months of age .... his recommendation was based on research he had done, not on what he had read in his veterinary journals. This was over 25 years ago! Every vet I have had occasion to discuss this subject with still make the same recommendation even now and for all the same reasons! I would think after all these years, if the early research were wrong, we would know it by now?

[KRAP!! I just realized that this is off-topic .... sorry! And, yes, I think there should be a sticky compiling the experience/knowledge of the wonderful breeders that we have on YT!]

BamaFan121s 02-01-2006 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
I mean we have not addressed the fact that some vets feel a dog has MORE health benefits from not being neutered, or the fact that there are alternatives to a full neuter as we in the US are used to. There is tubal ligation, removal of just the uterus in the female for example and vasectomy for the boys...all of which are less invasive, and less risky but still leave the animal incapable of reproducing. I would like responsible breeders to consider some of these options which I feel benefit the pups. :thumbup:
Kim~Not to be disrespectful, but these issues have been brought up MANY times, just not in this thread. I think I am correct in stating that you have been involved in the majority of these conversations. I agree with you, there is room for discussion of cons, as well as pros of the procedure. Also the newer, less invasive procedures are something everyone needs to be aware of. However, I think we ALL will admit and must be aware that when they are discussed in threads that get heated and locked, nothing is accomplished and nothing positive is taken away from it.

SoCalyorkiLvr 02-01-2006 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenray
Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)
I know that the more progressive vets are definitely recognizing thsi and are opting for less invasive procedures like in Spain for example where they only remove the uterus because they understand the benefit if the reproductive hormones to the lifetime health of the female dog. Gina1978 has more info on this.

PlatinumYorkies 02-01-2006 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
I know that the more progressive vets are definitely recognizing thsi and are opting for less invasive procedures like in Spain for example where they only remove the uterus because they understand the benefit if the reproductive hormones to the lifetime health of the female dog. Gina1978 has more info on this.
What is the difference between a progressive Vet, and a regular Vet..You guys are seriously confusing me, now!! :confused:


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