Mentoring Contract
 

I would like to know how many of you have heard of a mentoring contract? I personally have never heard of one when it comes to selling a female on full registration.. I do know that many reputable show owners will stay on as co-owners until a dog is shown to his/her championship, but that deals strictly with a show dog..

I have never heard of this either :confused: ...anyone know what it is and how it works?

Within the last few days, I read on one breeder's website (or maybe it was in The Yorkshire Terrier Magazine) that they will insist on being co-owner until the dog is finished and then signing over the dog's full registration. They even may insist on the dog being handled by a professional and may specifically require the handler to be their choice. All fees for showing/handling are paid by the potential owner. Many times, the dog will not go to live with the owner until after they have been finished.

This must be similar to what you're referring to.

Mentoring Contract
 

Mentoring Contract was started in another thread and I also have never heard of this form of contract before..

Apparently it is when a breeder is placing a female strictly on full registration with the option of breeding.. The prospective owner signs a contract that states the dog will be co-owned until it produces it first litter..

I have never seen one in writing. No. Some could be verbally implied but I personally haven't dealt with that. I've always had clearly stated contracts one way or the other. Some have taken it apon themselves to break my contracts. They are few and far between though. But it can happen and it's hard to enforce unless you involve the court systems. Like Yorkierini said a while back...if you want to insure they aren't bred, spay or neuter before they leave. (or something along those lines she said, lol) If you are offering to a potential breeder then realize they could actually do it. Lay it all out on the table from day one and go from there! :)

I for one see nothing wrong with it when dealing with a novice breeder. Show breeders must protect their lines and with a novice that doesn't know squat about breeding, why wouldn't you? I would not have a problem with this at all. JMO

I'm not a show breeder yet, but by golly I'm gonna protect my lines none the less. I've worked to friken hard to have my HEALTHY lines bred with who knows what. Spay/neuter contracts are tricky and one can go and register with a different registry in the end. I wouldn't have a problem with it either. :thumbup:

I mentioned this to see how many breeders do mentoring contracts.. It does sound like a great idea when you live close enough to help mentor someone.. As I personally know everytime you breed for a litter something new can happen each and every time!

I have in my contract that at NO time can the puppy be registered under any other registery except for AKC on limited registration.. I also state that if it is found that the dog has been bred I have the right to confiscate all off springs from said dog and the dog is legally returned to me! When I first started I had a one page contract and now it is a four page contract! :eek:

This is a serious question: How can a breeders lines get messed up? If a person buys a puppy and doesn't breed it the line stops. So what's the difference if a person wants to breed their puppy?
I for one think it should be up to the owner if they want to breed their dog or not. I know I might get sarcastic responses, but it's just my opinion. I'm entitled to it. :p If someone would like to properly and nicely explain why they think I'm "wrong," I will accept that, but I for one will not get into anymore childish discussions and be belittled on here. I don't think it's fair. This is a free country and everyone can have their own opinions. And these opinions can be stated without sarcastic remarks. Sometimes when I read these posts I feel like I am back in middle school as a student instead of teaching them! Ok, I'll get down from the pulpit now. :D

Ok -- I saw this thread first and then read through pages 1 and 2 of the other one before it was clear to me that the other thread is the sole purpose of this new thread being started.

I HATE when that happens!!!!

I answered a question in this forum openly and honestly to the best of my ability with regards to the subject at hand only to find out that lo and behold there is another agenda besides what is carefully worded to start the new thread.

Now with the other thread gone (I didn't get to read the 3rd page because the thread was deleted before I got finished). . . some have NO clue what this is all about.

I know what you mean! :) The contact itself does tend to grow in pages as we learn how people can be! LOL! :D My "right of first refusal" in my contract is being debated to this day as far as someone not contacting me FIRST when they could not keep a puppy of mine for any reason throughout it's life. I am to be contacted first so that I can take this dog back into my possesion to either keep, or find a suitable home for. It sux when people think we aren't serious! What they don't truly realize is that we only have our pups best interest at hand.

Certain yorkies that I own I did buy on contracts and they state that I can never place a puppy out of said dog if it is not of show quality.. One of them also states that I can keep back from said dog for my program, but everything I place has to go on a alter agreement..

Being a reputable breeder and if you love your dogs you never want to place one of your dogs in a bad pet home let alone a bad breeding situation.. I personally believe that they all deserve to be in loving homes and the breeding should come second to that! JMHO

I have "right of first refusal" in my contract also.. I two years ago found two female pups that I placed as pets for sale in a newspaper ad.. I called the owner and told her that she signed my contract and I meant everything that was in it.. I further told her that if she did not return the girls to me that I would haul her rear back here and sue here! Needless to say two days later I had the girls back in my home! ;) And yes I did return her full purchase price to her..

I'm just gonna answer this straight up...Lines can get messed up when a person says they aren't going to breed, truly means it, and then BAM! so and so got to her when they weren't looking. I hear it all the time on this forum.

Good for you girl! Some people just don't believe doo doo stinks until they smell it. And we are dealing with the lives of our babies we raised and loved here.

I just want to say thanks for responding nicely. :-) I have another few questions (not sarcastic of course)...why is it so important for a Yorkie to be breed to another champion Yorkie, or another Yorkie for that matter? Just because a person may want to breed their puppy with a "less than desirable" Yorkie, doesn't make their puppies any less cute, etc. Who is anyone to say that a person that wants to breed their Yorkie with another breed is not going to give it a good home? I feel that if a person purchases a dog, or any other animal, he/she should have rights to do as he/she pleases. Now, at first, I wanted to get Baby pregnant and have itty bitty puppies. Then I came on here and decided HELL NO!! But just b/c I'm not a professional, doesn't mean I wouldn't give those puppies love and good homes. I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say. Remember, this is JMHO. :D Thanks for "listening."

This thread was started to see how many use a mentoring contract and if so what it details.. It was NOT started for any other reason than that!

Breeding is NOT a right!!
 

Sorry, I'm starting with an off topic reply..but I promise I'll get right back on track.
This is my opinion you should NOT sell on full registration unless you know who you are dealing with. Does it make it harder for newbies? Yes.. and it should. Breeding is producing life into this world. It shouldn't be handed over to someone that just wants to and they say they are good people. I need proof years of proof! I have only sold 1 female on full registration to a friend of mine A friend I've known since I've started breeding. She also breeds and I have had 3 years to get to know her. We are fair and realistic. WE don't' assume this but we've seen each other demonstrate this in situations with others. I will sell another female or male with full registration to someone else that I can say the same for.

If I were to go outside of my restrictions I am just asking for trouble and allowing my puppies to be sold to someone that has the intention to breed and have unethical and irresponsible tendencies. I don't know what I would do if I sold a puppy to someone and found out later I was lied to. That would literally break my heart!

I would not expect any leniency for myself when buying a Yorkie or Biewer for that matter. I prefer to buy from those that ask me lots of questions and want to feel comfortable about me. Many people get mad at me if I don't sell them for breeding. But excuse me, I have shed more blood sweat tears and money then you can imagine. I will do what I feel is right for my babies.

Many breeders are nicer than me and give folks a chance and offer to mentor. Not me ..no way! For several reasons but number one being that I don't want take the risk of being lied to and my babies ending up in a bad breeding situation.

Drawing up an explicit contract and having someone sign their life away is not how I like to do things. I have a shell of a contract that covers some of the hereditary health defects. If something came up I would handle the situation at hand in a fair manner for the both us..so the long and short of the questions of this thread is NO .I've not heard of this contract..I've heard of co-ownerships and would NOT have a problem signing one myself. I would want to do what's right and learn from a wonderful breeder.

Where does it state that breeding is not a right? If people have the right to breed, why cant dogs? I'm sorry, I may sound ignorant, but I'm really trying to learn. :D

I agree with you 100%. But I do have a lengthy 3 page contract because the majority of my clients, I've only known 6 months or so prior to placement. I want my babies to be protected as well as myself and my work. I can't place a baby with only people that I personally know. This isn't realistic for me. I wish it was. But we don't really know people and we have to look out for our babies. I am going to protect them no matter what. I do think your post was dead on and co-ownerships can be a good thing. ;)

Nicole. I didn't see your posts. I was writing my book which appeared after yours. When I typed that, I was going through some of the emails I've received in the past..and I get a little fired up when people say well if I buy it I should be able to do what I want..I I want to breed it I will..Well Nuh huh..not any of mine...and to be sure of it I spay and neuter my pet puppies..People act or reply as thought it's their right to breed. That's why I said that..I'm not saying all but some of the emails I've received in the past come to mind when I was saying that.

You can do what you want with your Yorkie but not with one of my babies. That's just how I feel. Like Robbie, I've worked hard to get what I have, tehy are exactly what I want. Health and beauty and within the standard. I would rather them NOT be reproduced then to have my 3 years of improvement go backwards.

I am just a little passionate can't you tell :p

PS. I speak in 3rd party a lot..the 'you' is not directed at you.

No problem...I understand. :D Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I guess I can say I am not as passionate about the "exact, perfect" Yorkie. You know what I mean? Baby is my pet. I don't show her or breed her (and won't), so that's why I called myself ignorant. I'll admit it! LOL I'm a pet owner who does know a lot about Yorkies now thanks to this website, but nothing about breeding (other than it's too much work and not worth killing Baby over!!) I guess I just can't understand the whole "don't want to break the lines" desire since I never breed, you know? But I can understand what you mean and certainly respect your decisions and responses. Thanks! :)

Thanks Robbie. I get so much heat from those that want to breed because of my views. But I will NOT back down..lolol

Oh my post was speaking only to full registration. I bet we place pet puppies the same way. We go with our heart and our gut after a gruling interrogation and pics or a visit of their home..and I'm not kidding. I do this because I enjoy it. I don't know of a better way to spend my free time and money when I have it...haha.

Oh Nicole..you have to agree with me on this one..there are many people that shouldn't have a right to breed either too bad we can't protect some human lines like we can with dog breeding..lolol.

Ok, ok...I agree! You're right, not every human should have breeding rights!!!! :lol tears

PS. I don't think you're link to your website is working.

This is what I always thought too even though I never bred. I was shocked to pay almost $3000 for a dog only to discover, after I got him home, that he was ALREADY neutered at 12 weeks. I love dogs and paid a lot for my boy, I am smart and I felt like if I wanted to use him as a stud I paid for that right, but I have come to understand (although maybe not entirely agree with) the good breeders who have worked hard to establish good lines w/o defects and they don't want someone coming in just throwing any two dogs together w/o really studying the consequences and then those puppie's pedigrees are going to have that breeder's line in them and someone who "matters" in the show world may see a substandard yorkie and think the "line" is no good because it produced that.

Does that make sense.

Great question.... :thumbup:

Makes sense! As I stated in a response above...I guess I just don't understand why having a "substandard" dog is so bad. Hey, my uncle has a mutt (they don't even know what he is). He is the BEST most well behaved dog. If he wasn't fixed, and I wanted to go through with the whole breeding process (which I don't) I would have no problem breeding him with Baby to try to get another dog like Psilo. Ok, breeders...you're time to cringe. :D I want to find the best pet, not the best show dog. :D

I have a question ..do you put restrictions on the female or on the males as well?
I spoke to a women several day back..she had a 3-1/2 lb male AKC stud for sale.
I told her up front about myself, my family and females,. I stated to her I was wanting a smaller male to add to my family and a male that would compliment my females who 2 of my girls has CH.bloodlines..
That I had a 5lb unproven Male .
That I was not interested in showing, but to produce good quality pets.
She wrote me back saying she decided to sell him but, without the papers.
I ask her if something was wrong with the papers or if she just didn't want him used for a stud.
She really would not give me a straight answer about WHY..
Nor, the reason she was selling him.
I told her I was sorry but not interested.
I did tell her.. If, her reasons was she didn't want him used for studding..then to get him fixed before placing him..
Because someone could register him under a different registery and breed him.
Then I told her if she was a breeder to check out YT. She could find some good advice on breeding, health ...etc... :D

I'm sorry I'm making the thread go off track. I apologize. :)