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Ha, I just noticed in Trixie's pedigree that she has Stardust in her line... Apparantly in her five generation pedigree are two Stardust Yorkshire Terriers. It's far far away, though. BTW I love Stardust Joey on her website (the puppy section), what a pretty pup! |
I love Stardust Yorkies!!! They have such beautiful yorkies and puppies :) Those of you who have shared your pics have beautiful babies :) |
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She mentioned that she had heard of you thru Raymond as you both had Parquins bloodlines. She said it was very nice to meet you and she was happy that her little guy was going to a show home. She was very excited about this guy - he is 16 weeks old. Not to much longer and you can start him in the puppy classes. She plans to be at the show In Indy- has a older puppy that will be in the puppy classes. Should be exciting - another person here in Indiana showing and having fun. This should give you quite a housefull of babies to choose from to show in the spring and later this summer. I have Stardust in the background of some of my kids also. It is acouple of generations back on most of them including Buster. |
I am planning to have Heidi and Vickie bred with Stardust males . One is in Canada and the other in the U.S.A . |
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My "Dylan" did NOT come from Susan.. I have a friend that has four yorkies from Susan and my Dylan came from her! So I was able to lay my hands on him and see both of his parents in person and they both are gorgeous yorkies, IMHO.. But Dylan is still a very young puppy and can fall apart before he is old enough to be shown.. You ALWAYS take a gamble when you purchase a young puppy.. |
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I don't know Susan, but buying something for breeding and trusting someone one else to pick it out for you is a gamble. Her idea of baby face may be different than yours, I have some friends that have the same taste in Yorkies as I do, but I would still prefer to pick out a puppy myself. And a puppy under 8 or 9 months is still a gamble IMO. I bought my stud at 2 yrs of age. There was no mistaking what I was getting (by the pictures anyway) but his age he was mature and in full coat and EXACTLY what I wanted. As for the size, some have growth spurts. As much as I THINK I know what a specific mating will produce. Something is bound to prove me wrong..hahaha... Here's a prefect example: I have bred Sutlan and Kricket 3 times each time the pups today range from 4-6 pounds..most being 4-5...there is one that was the same size as the rest until he was 9 months old and he kept growing..he's 8 pounds. I did not predict him to be that big but I certainly didn't guarantee he'd be a specific weight. The couple that owns him bought him and his 2 brothers so monitoring the growth spurts was very easy. I would have never guess Sultan and Kricket would produce an 8 pound Yorkie in that litter of 4.... |
Loki Loki is Stardust, I got him directly from Susan. I did my research and had a good impression of her. However, Loki was just diagnosed with a Grade 2 Luxating Patella. I called her immediately in case she wanted to get the parents checked and to find out of she had seen this in her lines before and she brushed it off as no big deal and all Yorkies have bad knees. I don't agree and I am upset about that. (It sure was a big deal with he had to sit out of an entire obedience class because his knee popped out, and when he couldn't even pee last week because he couldn't squat, and when the vet told me he may need surgery eventually!!) Loki is beatiful, though big at 9 lbs he is skiny love and tall. She said he'd be around 7 and I don't think anyone would have predicted he'd be so tall and long. People go out of their way to tell me how cute he is. Again, HOWEVER, I was stupid and did not see his parents. She had him at her house and she did not have the parents. She said he was bred by a co-breeder in IOWA and she did not have the parents at her home. He was 13 weeks old so I was satisfied that she was not trying to sell him too soon, but now I understand that they need to stay until they are 12 weeks to learn things FROM MOM. He is good around people and loves kids, but he is a bully around other dogs. We have socialized him from the beginning AND have done obedience classes once a week for his entire life - and he still growls and snaps at other dogs. He also has snapped at ME for taking things out of his mouth, etc. He barks A LOT and growls and we do NOT encourage it. 99% of the time he is a wonderful dog, but with ALL of the positive training we have done EVEN allowing for the fact that he is a terrier I still feel that his temperament is not the best. I get embarrased when I tell people he is in advanced obedience classes yet he can't even behave at Petsmart around another dog. Again, my fault for not seeing the parents (and walking away when they weren't available.) I love him to death and waited my whole life for a dog, and he is super smart and a cool little pup, but knowing what I do now... I will get a breeder recommendation from my trainer next time. I won't go back. P.S. Do any of you know why she does it like this? I did some research on the co-breeder and she is on Stewie'sMom's USDA list. |
I do not know this breeder. I do know that a puppy they personally delivered to their client was full of earmites. It's not like this was a life threatening disease or anything, but if you don't go over the little things...you're just subjecting your client to future expenses especially if they have other animals in their home that will be exposed. Not to mention the headache. Maybe it was accidently overlooked on the breeder's part. But they were there and I don't believe that it is possilbe for only one dog in a group to have earmites. Its a "community" problem. I'm gonna add that I do admire the beautiful yorkies on the site. But I need to be kept much more informed on any baby I may purchase and receive lots of pictures if i am not able to personally meet with the breeder. I MUST see the father and the MOTHER. This in not always the case at this kennel I believe. I'm also not going to name any names...but the people who were involved in this know exactly what I'm talking about. |
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Like I had mentioned earlier I do NOT purchase my boy from Susan.. Do you have a problem stating who is the sire and dam to your pup? |
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Hi, Erin. Gosh, I remember when you first posted about getting Loki. I'm sorry to hear that he has L.P. Who are his sire and dam? did he possibly injure his knee while playing? One of my girls: Sydney, injured one of her knees and tore the ligament, as well. She had surgery and recovered so well, even our vet has to check her records to see which knee. I got one of my girls from Susan 7 years ago, this March. Kia is tiny, 4#s. and she is really feisty! "Talks" to me all the time! Did Susan ask you anything at all about Loki's knee? Sheila |
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As far as his parents, I don't see why I can't list that info? It's on his papers. Molly Malone and Supreme Kort. Neither of them have Ch's although there are a lot listed on here. I have his pedigree back 4 generations. Also, he has the same great grandfather listed on each side, Mischief Maker and he has a Ch. Quote:
Anyway, once I said it was a grade 2 Susan just said that grade 1 and 2 are "no big deal" and that they (breeders?) don't worry about it until it's at a 3 or a 4. She said surgery is not done until 4, although according to the information the vet gave me, grade 3 means once it pops out it will not pop back in by itself, which I think is very serious for such an active dog. I asked if she wanted the names of his parents so she could test them (OFA) and she said no one OFA's Yorkies and that she'd take the parents names but she hasn't had other issues. Maybe that's true, I know there are throwbacks and recessive genes and other things, I've had advanced biology :-) Maybe no one has called back to tell her, I don't know. I'll never know. But I do wish I knew was OFA was a year ago! No matter what I would never give him up or give him back, I just feel like I did the research and we're having to deal with issues we should not have. He's still my awesome little kid, but I could do without the growling/agression. We're working on that and we have the best trainer I could ever ask for so while I think he will always have agression issues I'm confident we can manage them, but only because we take the time to train him every day and send him to the trainer's often for daycare (aka bootcamp). I just worry what would have happened if he got placed in a home with someone who did not do these things. I know a LOT of people do not formally train their dogs. He'd be seriously running the show and that would be very bad. My parents aren't strict with him and he walks all over them. He growls and barks at my husband when he comes in the room, even though he does 75% of Loki's training and they are together all day without issues, until Loki throws a temper trantrum for no reason. We meet big dogs and he barks in their faces and the other person corrects their dog and apologizes and won't believe me when I explain my tiny dog is a total bully. Where does the aggression come from? He is *very* well exercised and has been immersed in obedience (and socialization) from the very beginning. Can it be genetics? I'm probably overthinking it. Sorry for going on, I'm just trying to sort all of this out and learn something from it. Hopefully by learning why he is like this I can do more to solve the problem. Thanks for asking about him, I really appreciate it. |
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What bothers me about the breeder of Stardust is that she says in her ads that she has a guarantee, but I have heard quite a few of complaints which she does NOTHING about.. If you are not going to guarantee your dogs you should not say that you do! |
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I really feel bad about Loki. His great grandsire, CH. Mischief Maker, is my Kia's sire. (Smooth As Silk is her Dam.) It concerns me that Susan wasn't concerned when you told her that your vet said the L.P. is genetic. I will tell you one thing; Kia has a bad over-bite. I did drop Susan a note in the mail about it. (Like you, I thought she might want to know about genetic issues. I wasn't expecting her to do anyhting for me, because I knew bites were not guaranteed. And I wouldn't have given Kia up for anything in the world! Because other than the bite, she's perfect!) Did you tell Susan that the co-breeder is on StewiesMoms USDA breeders list? Who is the co-breeder? I wonder why a breeder of her caliber would breed two dogs that neither is a champion. And no champions until that far back. Reading your description of Loki's personality helps me understand why my Kia is such a barker. She's not agressive though, just "bossy". (Guess she figures someone has to tell me what to do and when to do it.) Sheila |
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I did not let her know about the co-breeder, I just looked that up the other day. (I assumed since I purchased the dog from Susan the other breeder was not an issue, guess I was wrong again.) I have been doing some more follow up research just for my own knowledge and since I did not see the parents I was concerned about a broker/puppy mill, which of course is everyone's fear. I'm confident that he did not come from a mill, however I do feel that he may not have gotten the personal attention that I originally thought he did. The overbite is funny! Because when we went to the vet last week the first thing she said when she opened his mouth was "nice teeth!" so I guess he doesn't have one. Dogs with overbites are so cute, does her little tongue stick out sometimes? I don't know that Loki is truly agressive either, but bossy is definately the right word. It's such a struggle not to give in because he's so darn cute. But we don't let him get away with it. He just tries and tries to get us to do what he wants and then gives up and THEN we get up and play with him or whatever. He's on what the trainer calls the no free lunch program. He has to work for everything. Sit, leash on, sit, leash off, tricks for treats, etc. I'm happy when he barks at someone outside, but he'll just start barking his head off when he wants someone to stand in the kitchen and watch him eat. Or he will "ask" to go outside then start barking at you when you put his leash on, like "That's NOT what I wanted!!". If he were a toddler he'd be on the ground crying, screaming, kicking and throwing a fit. The reason that he gets into trouble with dogs is that he is not polite. I don't think that's agression either, but again a short temper. He doesnt go in looking to pick a fight. There are dog/dog social rules and he breaks them every time. He sniffs other dog, other dog sniffs him and he freaks out! It's like he never learned the rules. I think that's where the 10-12 week socialization (or lack of) comes though. He's just very immature. When you got Kia did you get to see the parents? Re: the guarantee. I was specifically told when we bought him that it was a return the puppy for a new one guarantee. Now, EVERYONE gets attached to their puppy even if it gets sick 3 days later. But for something like LP that shows up now a year later, I mean besides the fact that he is our CHILD I have put so much into training & socialization. No WAY would I trade him in and start over. Most people would never consider that. So even though there is a guarantee, I never put much faith in it to begin with and I supposed others shouldn't either. I just don't want this to happen again. It's nice to hear from breeders who do take that guarantee seriously. Thanks for that. Honestly, going through all of this makes me want to become a breeder some day so that I can make the choices and try to prevent some of these things from happening. It's not something I'd do any time soon, maybe in 10 or 20 years if I found the right people to help me do it right, but I can't imagine anything more rewarding than helping to improve the breed I love so much. |
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When I got Kia from Susan, I didn't realize she was breeding on such a large scale. No, I did not get to see Kia's sire and dam that day. I did see her sire in the show ring, a few years earlier. I didn't realize it was her practice not to show the sire and dam. I think I would be inclined to let Susan know that the co-breeder is on the USDA list. She may, or may not know about it. If you don't feel comfortable in calling her, just copy the list and mail it to her. Sometimes other breeders are deceptive. (Heres' an example. {Just to clarify, Sydney did not come from Stardust.}The owner of my Sydney's sire, and the owner of Sydney's dam, were doing some breeding. One day I was at the sire owners house and she said, "Sydneys mom is here today for breeding". I went over to the crate and said, "That is NOT Sydneys mom". It turned out, that the owner of Sydney's Dam was lying and saying the breeding didn't take, then, taking advantage of a free repeat breeding and using a different female. When the owner of Sydney's sire, confronted this other breeder, the woman said, "You gave me the wrong dog back when I had her groomed." If that was the case, why did she take the wrong dog?!) No, her tongue doesn't hang out. The over-bite is expensive. She needs an annual dental because her teeth don't line up when she chews, and she has to eat very tiny kibble. But, she's got the most darling little face ever! Re: the guarantee. When I got Kia, Susan told me that if there were any medical issues in the 1st year, she would either take her back and replace her, (to which I replied, "I'd never be able to give her up") and she said then we'd work it out where she would pay part of the medical bills. She did say that she would want to know about any genetic issues at any time. So, this is why I am so surprised that she was not concerned about Loki's L.P. Sheila |
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I'm sorry about Kia's overbite. It's amazing how we can overlook things and just deal with them because we love them so much. But, I don't think the breeders should assume that we will. Whether or not that is the case here I think there is a responsibility to do their best not to let these things happen in the first place and to be upfront about them when they do. Susan was definately concerned when I said "Luxating Patella" but then when I said it was Grade 2 she was insistent that it was no big deal and all Yorkies have bad knees. I said that it IS a big deal. Then she started insisting that he injured it somehow, even though the vet said it's genetic. She didn't seem interested in discussing it further so I told her I would let her know if it gets worse. I just hope it doesn't. |
In my humble opinion - both LP AND Overbites are serious and not to be taken lightly - While most dogs who have mild cases can live perfectly normal lives ....I have a cocker spaniel that has such a severe underbite she had to be hand fed as a puppy. She literally could not grasp a piece of food. and even now at 10 years old - she rarely eats out of their food dish.... |
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I have to tell you, from talking to other breeders, I don't believe "All Yorkies have bad knees". There are so many wonderful breeders, right here, on this forum, striving to produce the healthiest Yorkies. Since Susan doesn't have Internet access, I would send her the list. You never know, it might open her eyes to something. I'm sorry about Loki, and I hope his L.P. won't get worse. But I am glad you posted about him, because people need to be careful. Sheila |
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I'm sorry to hear that your Cocker spaniel has such a severe under-bite. Really unfair for her. Sheila |
Thank you Sheila .... :) It's much easier now ...but when she was a baby I had to literally sit and feed her everyday by hand...and now she's THAT spoiled that I still do. She deserves it - they wanted to put her down because of the underbite..... :( I ran out of that place with her so fast - she was destined to be with me :) and even worse when these poor dogs have such severe LP that they need surgery - I would be so upset if I purchased a puppy and spent thousands of dollars....then found out my yorkie had LP...it DOES affect the quality of their life for sure....not to mention...we all hate seeing them in pain and LP can be very painful for dogs... I have a friend who's yorkie had surgery on both legs and can't imagine what that was like for both of them....then add the cost on top of it it's sad that this common problem can't be wiped out and be a thing of the past |
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IMO....the "soundness" of the pup comes first and foremost....then you add all the "bells and whistles, i.e. nice coat, etc. A pup that possesses an even bite means he digests his food properly, and a compact body and straight topline, means his joints are in alignment. These are not qualities that are only for the priviledged Show Quality dog. This is all common sense....we need to take more responsibility when we purchase our pups. You know...in the "Horseshow World", it would be unheard of to ONLY trust the person selling you the horse. An unbiased outside vet or trusted professional would always come with to evaluate the horse. Why this is not done in the dogworld...I have no idea . For most people, this is a huge financial and emotional investment, whether for Show or Pet. Francie |
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Actually, though, Susan, requires that you take your puppy to the vet within 48 hours. However, things such as L.P. and and over-bite do not show up that soon in many cases. My Kia had a perfect bite at 12 weeks. Sheila |
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Francie |
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Villette, I really believe from reading so many of your posts, that you are truly one of the kindest, most compassionate members of this forum. God Bless you for taking that precious baby out of that place!!!! I do believe, that there are many good breeders, trying very hard to improve the health of the breed. So, hopefully, due to their efforts, things such as L.P. and bad bites, will be a thing of the past. Sheila |
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Yes, Kia had a perfect bite at 12 weeks, but any dogs bite can change as they grow up. Hers however, is very prominent. When she lays on her little back in my lap, I can see a good quarter inch of the roof of her mouth, (with her mouth closed.) The purpose of the 48 hour vet visit is to check for serious health problems, and I have to say, Kia passed my vets inspection with flying colors. And as I've said before, other than the over-bite, she's very healthy, and the sweetest little angel in the world. (Albeit, a "bosssy" one. LOL) Sheila |
Thank you again Sheila :) :) :) and I think you're very right - we have lots of really super Breeders here on this site and I Wish their breeding practices were copied all over the country..... I know no breeder can be perfect ...but many of the breeders right here do their best to try to be and I don't envy them what they do... I AM in awe of it though :) and Yorkieville200...You have a good point about not seeing a "bad" bite until they're older - adult teeth can come in crooked or cause a bad bite....Kia sounds like a little sweetie :) |
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I agree with you, no breeder can be perfect, and no dog can be perfect, (please don't tell my girls I said that!), so, I guess that's why I'm not upset with Susan that Kia has a bad bite. I adore her and she's perfect to me!!! And most importantly, she is so-o-o- healthy! I don't envy the breeders either. The owner of Sydney's sire tried to convince me to breed years ago, but it's not for me. I could never give up a puppy, so, I'd end up with a houseful. :omg: |
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Well...if Kia is healthy...that is ALL that matters.. LOL at "Bossy"..(psst..they wouldn't be the same if they weren't..shhhh) ;) Francie |
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I love that feisty part of her personality! Makes me laugh every day. ;) Sheila |
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