Food for thought

[gemy]

http://www.thedogpress.com/anti-anim...ation-062.asps


Whilst written in a hyperbolic way - there is some serious stuff happening around us breeders. Show breeders will likely be the first to fall as by definition we are in the minority - and guess what we try to do the right way with our breeding dogs - we have big costs - and many of us can not afford to fund for long out of our personal pockets - at least we need to break financially even over the long haul.




I have watched personally show entries decline over the last ten years. In Canada with the big shows of which in Ontario only a few annually going from it is very hard to find a set-up grooming area - to pretty easy to find one.... And hard core numbers suggest show entries are down at least 20%.


Not my problem Yeah well maybe - but what happens when we are fewer and fewer breeders breeding to the standard of our breed? Think it won't happen? Well bison got almost extinct - and there is more than one form of hunting.....


Make no mistake we are under siege - from a myriad of factions...and agendas.

[swan]

Gemy you raise an important question, its something I have been thinking about a lot. I am new to the showing so I come with a different set of eyes. Many of the questions that I have are usually answered with "because thats the way we have always done it".

Well, if we did that in all sports, they would all be only white people playing with no helmets while smoking cigarettes on the ****ing field.

We need innovation, we need to eliminate entry fees for exhibitors (yeah, that's right, I said it) and they should make a concerted effort to encourage sponsors to endorse exhibitors and breeders.

Sounds impossible right? Maybe. I think it is possible if the AKC is willing to think big and think long term. Use the media, use the internet, use the compelling lives of dogs to create story lines that will keep people riveted. People watch golf and bowling in large numbers. Enough to sponsor the participants. They made a TV show about storage auctions! Are you ****ing kidding me! And people watched it! My point is that if the AKC really wanted to capitalize on their resources they are doing a terrible job. Trying to get money from the wrong people, operating on a business model that is 3 decades out of date. Its an organization run by old people and insiders who don't understand how young people think in the modern era. They have completely forgotten about the next generation.

[gemy]

Good points Mike - but more than entry fees - we need more health clinics that are subsidized - free posting of results on offa and chic and like health organizations. We need vets who are geared and support show breeders - who have the training the real training to help out with whelping - pregnancy and after care for the nursing mother.


What I and you can do is to help out at shows the newbies. They are easily recognized - the look of a deer caught in the headlights. Make the atmosphere collegial. Say hi - be welcoming. Offer to share your fan or a brush. Look around you to see who might need a helping hand.
Just yesterday I was having a convo with a fellow breeder - she hates showing! But she is a very good breeder puts oodles of performance titles on her dogs. She just can not stand what she calls the politics of showing. So she does UKC shows as you can enter the same day of the show. Her at home situation makes this ideal for her as she has a sick husband whose condition can change day to day.


We have some programs on TV like dogs 101 or some such. Promote those - give not a sanitized version of the breed - but a real life critique. For our Yorkies show them doing agility obedience rally o dock diving - barn hunts. They are small but they are feisty. Some are therapy dogs. Give the whole panorama of what this breed can do - if you the owner and you the breeder do the *right* things with your dog.


Show the breeders raising a litter - doing the neuro stimulation and other puppy rearing techniques to raise a well adjusted puppy. Let the public know what goes into making a beautifull pure bred dog. And do this over and over and over again.


Solicit public attendance at each show. Give them the public something more than the dry ring performance. Most folks don't follow don't know what is going on ringside. Have demos mid day - dog dancing - rally o obedience demos - scent work. Show them a temperament test - offer free testing to the public for that day. Want to know your dogs temperament?


Interview the exhibitors - small cameo shots. Oh what are you doing here as an exhibitor is prepping their dog for show. Why does this dog have that hair over their eyes - how can they see? How do you get that coat to gleam so much?


And finally urge and support the public that you meet to purchase a purebred dog - and here is why!

[swan]

Gemy as usual you have added many good ideas that I completely agree with.

What this ultimately boils down to are two things. Money and education. Those are the two things I think that permeate every issue that plague the sport.

I like dogs 101 its a good show, I would suggest we make them longer and make them for a younger audience. Get kids excited about the different breeds. These are kids who grew up collecting pokemon cards, they like this stuff if it is presented to them at their level. This is a huge untapped market. And it would be beneficial to children who will be learning quite a bit.

Here is my idea for a show, "Becoming a Champion" follow a puppy from birth with his handler and actually follow them and show the entire process of becoming a champion. Focus on the love between the handler and the dog. Casting would be important but the show could educate people on how much goes into finishing just one dog. The show could follow a bunch of different people and their dog To keep it interesting.

Now imagine you have been watching this show. Now you hear they are going to be competing at your local dog show. You might really want to go. These dogs might have fans, sponsors, like every other sport in the country.

Gemy I couldn't agree more with you about soliciting the public to come and watch. Give them more to watch then just the ringside activity. I love the temperament testing idea. Get people out to the shows and help educate them.

More can be done. Is anyone else reading this? Does anyone else agree or just straight up disagree? Hit me up and let me know.

[magicgenie]

I think Gemy and Swan have wonderful ideas. However, I think the dog show world is collapsing under the weight of exhibitor egos as much as anything else. Gail, my first time at a dog show was as a terribly green first time exhibitor. Nobody was nice and I'll never forget it. Even after 15 years and learning a lot more, I know the dog I had that day was a very nice one. Other exhibitors looked at me as I was a rodent or surely some creep out to rob them. People were very reluctant to advise, and I'm shy and not pushy. I went home, downhearted, and never showed that boy again. A few years later, and knowing it was a hostile environment, I sent his granddaughter out with a professional handler and quickly had my first home bred champion. I only show when I have something super worthy, and only with a professional handler. I never attend in person as the atmosphere at shows brings out all the worst in me.

[swan]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I think Gemy and Swan have wonderful ideas. However, I think the dog show world is collapsing under the weight of exhibitor egos as much as anything else. Gail, my first time at a dog show was as a terribly green first time exhibitor. Nobody was nice and I'll never forget it.

First of all, that sucks and I am sorry that happened to you. We could discuss the merits of attending and being involved in shows and we would probably agree on a lot of things. Bear with me here, I get it.

Second all of those people are going to retire or die eventually. Who will be left?

Third, everyone is going to have different experiences at different locations with different breeds. So the idea can't be to get everyone get along, look there are a**holes everywhere, it is competitive so people can get out of control. Go to any high school football game. It's way worse. However we should be able to assure everyone that the outcome is fair. Judge reform is something that needs to be addressed and I know I am not the only one saying that I have seen many articles about the issue.

Can someone tell me if I'm wrong but are judges paid by the amount of entries they judge? If so that would be like having the batter pay the umpire more than the pitcher does. Any close call is going to the batter. It's not nefarious its just common sense.

All of this is just talk though, Would it be possible to get the different breed clubs to agree on changing the format of a show?

What if we had a bracketed tournament to determine the best in show. Seed all of the winners of each breed and have them compete against each other in front of a different judge each "match" until only one remains. It would be entertaining as hell and people could root for their breed or a particular dog. Plus it would make it easier on judges only judging two dogs at a time.

Just some outside of the box ideas. Love the feedback.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I think Gemy and Swan have wonderful ideas. However, I think the dog show world is collapsing under the weight of exhibitor egos as much as anything else. Gail, my first time at a dog show was as a terribly green first time exhibitor. Nobody was nice and I'll never forget it. Even after 15 years and learning a lot more, I know the dog I had that day was a very nice one. Other exhibitors looked at me as I was a rodent or surely some creep out to rob them. People were very reluctant to advise, and I'm shy and not pushy. I went home, downhearted, and never showed that boy again. A few years later, and knowing it was a hostile environment, I sent his granddaughter out with a professional handler and quickly had my first home bred champion. I only show when I have something super worthy, and only with a professional handler. I never attend in person as the atmosphere at shows brings out all the worst in me.

I hope we can change that from with-in the show world. I had a different first time experience - it was with a Rare Breed Club - cause Blackies at the time could not show yet in CKC. How-ever folks were nice enough - but it drove me crazy not knowing when and what something was going on. Like you know ring times!! LOL. Our very first show Magic and I got kicked out of the ring - cough excuse me - correct terminology was Excused from the ring. My wee 3 month puppy in 100 degree weather had the temerity to growl at the judge :-)


Then we went to the States for their first National BRT Specialty it was a televised benched show something like 3000 dogs entered. I was in shock when we finally arrived! OML the size of the place the dogs - what in heck is a benched AKC show. Like the greenhorns we were - we had no idea what to do. At least we had a crate for Magic - but then I had no grooming table lol. Luckily as it turned out the President of the US club was there and helped us to setup correctly in our assigned spot. Then he asked about our grooming table.... So he took us over to a vendor and we bought one on the spot. He said I really should not be looking at your puppy as I am judging sweepstakes.... BTW I had no idea if I had entered him in sweepstakes or not lol. But a lady who was the ring steward and also a BIS judge took pity on me and after the class says to me you come back to watch and I will teach you. Then after her time was done in the ring - she gave me a private handling lesson. After that we won our classes over that weekend. She was A M A Z I N G. And she wanted no payment at all for the hours in total she spent with us.


She also took me shopping to buy a proper for my breed collar and show lead. That was an expensive but valuable weekend as I finally had the correct grooming tools for my breed. Undercoat rake - slicker brush etc etc.


I had three handlers come up to me and offer to show Magic. Can you imagine how bad I must have been in the ring :-)


But I have had bad experiences too. Some of my own making - as in the early days I didn't have my rambunctious boy under control at all times in the show grounds. I got some pretty stern looks and a lecture or two. And while they were not nice to me - I learnt! Sometimes you learn more from criticism than praise.


\when I was showing Razzle in Canada I had some young gal come up to me and demand to know what I am using on his coat. I said who wants to know - she pointed back to a quasi well known exhibitor and said she does. Well I said if *she* wants to know *she* can come over here and ask me herself. *she* never did - message how-ever was sent and received..... I don't tolerate rudeness from exhibitors or assistants to the exhibitors. Basic human courtesy please and thank-you.


But I kept at it. And overtime my face became known. Oh not famous at all just known. The crazy lady that shows Blackies and get this Yorkies too! Doing judging seminars helped - many handlers attend these breed specific seminars.


I am not so shy but can be quiet and reserved. I think that truthfully when there is an emergency like a month ago when their was a tornado warning siren going off - most folks made sure everyone knew around them what was happening.


Maybe give the show world another chance...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by swan

First of all, that sucks and I am sorry that happened to you. We could discuss the merits of attending and being involved in shows and we would probably agree on a lot of things. Bear with me here, I get it.

Second all of those people are going to retire or die eventually. Who will be left?

Third, everyone is going to have different experiences at different locations with different breeds. So the idea can't be to get everyone get along, look there are a**holes everywhere, it is competitive so people can get out of control. Go to any high school football game. It's way worse. However we should be able to assure everyone that the outcome is fair. Judge reform is something that needs to be addressed and I know I am not the only one saying that I have seen many articles about the issue.

Can someone tell me if I'm wrong but are judges paid by the amount of entries they judge? If so that would be like having the batter pay the umpire more than the pitcher does. Any close call is going to the batter. It's not nefarious its just common sense.

All of this is just talk though, Would it be possible to get the different breed clubs to agree on changing the format of a show?

What if we had a bracketed tournament to determine the best in show. Seed all of the winners of each breed and have them compete against each other in front of a different judge each "match" until only one remains. It would be entertaining as hell and people could root for their breed or a particular dog. Plus it would make it easier on judges only judging two dogs at a time.

Just some outside of the box ideas. Love the feedback.

Here in Canada there is a fixed quota of dogs a single judge can judge in a day over that their judging assignments get handed out. Here in Canada there is a fixed per diem and per day judging assignment $$. I am not sure in the USA.

[gemy]

AKC and CKC control how the judging works. Only prior to AGM;s can a member with the requisite support propose a bylaw change or a change to the judging rules.


You could introduce a double judging rule at group level - where in two judges independently evaluate the group. And pick their winners - evaluation forms and marks are tallied....


Already there is a winnowing down - BOB goes into the group ring(s) each group has approx. 24 different breeds in them. The group is winnowed down to 1 2 3 4 place. Only 1st place group winners go on to Best in Show.


So I may not be understanding correctly what you are saying.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Darn, Gail, I repeatedly get a message that the page cannot be displayed. If you'll mention the article title, I can look it up on my own cause I'd love to read it.

[gemy]

Try this link from the dog press - ANTI-EVERYTHING LEGISLATION | TheDogPress.com Anti everything legislation

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gemy

Try this link from the dog press - ANTI-EVERYTHING LEGISLATION | TheDogPress.com Anti everything legislation

Pefect - got it. Thanks, Gail!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Pefect - got it. Thanks, Gail!

You are very welcome Jeanie

[yorkiemini]

Originally Posted by gemy

http://www.thedogpress.com/anti-anim...ation-062.asps


Whilst written in a hyperbolic way - there is some serious stuff happening around us breeders. Show breeders will likely be the first to fall as by definition we are in the minority - and guess what we try to do the right way with our breeding dogs - we have big costs - and many of us can not afford to fund for long out of our personal pockets - at least we need to break financially even over the long haul.




I have watched personally show entries decline over the last ten years. In Canada with the big shows of which in Ontario only a few annually going from it is very hard to find a set-up grooming area - to pretty easy to find one.... And hard core numbers suggest show entries are down at least 20%.


Not my problem Yeah well maybe - but what happens when we are fewer and fewer breeders breeding to the standard of our breed? Think it won't happen? Well bison got almost extinct - and there is more than one form of hunting.....


Make no mistake we are under siege - from a myriad of factions...and agendas.

I can't speak to Canada, but although AKC touts the purebred it seems they show less and less interested in purebred dogs. They are opening so much up to mixed breeds to compete with pure breeds - and we all know that was not how it all started.

We need numbers to achieve confirmation championship points, but as you said, fewer seem to be showing. And AKC is wooing mixed breeds. It is expensive to breed to a standard with genetic testing and all the testing - none of which is need for the AKC mixed breed and canine partners programs.

Sooo, many start to look at all that work and expense and wonder if it is worth it.

[magicgenie]

I think I missed Gail's most important point in starting this thread. The Dog Press article is very accurate in my view, and scary. While I think the dog show world has alienated some people, there could still be time left to salvage something. I'm willing to help.