Advice on breeding my girl

[newyorkie34]

Hello, I am looking for feedback. My little girl just turned 6 this month. I want to breed her. I would like a puppy for her. I waited since I thought that she needed to be older than 5... My friend says she will be ok. After doing research and looking online it is suggested for 2-5 etc... latest being 7 years. This will be her first and only litter. As mentioned she just turned 6 this month. She weights 4.8 lbs as of today. The little guy I'm thinking of is 5 lbs. Any suggestions? The vet says she's healthy etc etc and it can be a 50/50 chance of C section. Would any of pro experienced breeder tell me what you think? Thank you. I really want one of her puppies for her to have company etc. She's never had any health problems, she's very healthy and loves to play a lot.

[Yorkiemom1]

Some people on this forum would like for you to believe that breeder membership on here and in general,do not want people breeding dogs....they would like you to believe the pro breeders are selfish and their motivation is to keep people from enjoying all the warm and fuzzy feelings a basket of puppies brings, or it is a financial greedy motivation, to "keep all the money gained from selling puppies for the professional breeders, etc. Of course, those reasons have nothing to do with why we discourage breeding by novices, and breeding stock that is actually perfect for a pet, but a disaster waiting to happen if that pet's pedigree is mixed with the wrong mate. I like to think of breeding like baking.

You have to be knowledgable about the basics of baking for starters, or nothing you do will come out right. You dont just go to the kitchen, throw stuff in a bowl, mix it all up, pour it into some pan..... You go to cooking/baking classes, you get mentoring from people that are good at baking, and you read tons of books written by people that know how to bake.

Next, you start with the very best ingredients. You know if you are using ingredients that are old or sour or tainted, your end product will be a mess. So you get the best eggs, the best flour, the best of all the ingredients that the recipe calls for.

Now you have to know what you are wanting to end up with when it comes out of the oven. Are you baking a pie or a cake? Are you baking a sheet cake or a bundt cake? Are you baking cookies? You MUST know what you are wanting to end up with before you know where to start. If you are baking a pineapple upside down cake, and instead of adding pineapple to your recepie, you throw in squash, or tomatoes or egg plant, you will not end up with a pineapple upside down cake. If you pour it all into cupcake tins, you wont have a pineapple upside down cake.

When the cake does not turn out, you get frustrated and you throw it in the trash...lesson learned. Unfortunately, when breeding, you can not just discard your mistakes. And remember, everything you produce, is YOUR responsibility....it is YOUR success or YOUR mistake.

Your dogs pedigree, and the pedigree of the dog you are breeding with, those are the "ingredients" for your final product. You must start with the best ingredients possible, good, strong, clean ingredients.....Your dogs pedigree is what your dog is contributing to the final product, what YOU are bringing to the table. The dog you are breeding to provides the other 1/2 of the ingredients. You want pedigrees that are genetically sound, no history of liver shunts, no heart issues, no kidney, pancreas, eye, hip issues....and you want these pedigrees clean and proven genetically sound for generations back, not just to mom and pop of the breeding pair, but way back for generations.....like at least 9 generations, even further back is better. You want to scour these pedigrees for not only genetic issues that are historically embedded in that pedigree, you dont want to duplicate dogs too closely in your outcome, because untill you REALLY know what you are doing and are soooo knowledgable about pedigrees and genetics and lines, you just want to be sure you do not start doubling up on the same dogs from both pedigrees.... no line breeding, no in breeding. And of course, there are "looks" that you get from specific lines.....personalities that are strong in these lines that go down through the years, into litters produced by these lines....to continue these great looks and personalities, you have to know what you are throwing together into the mix.

Breeding is not something to be taken light heartedly or just because you adore your little dog. Breeding is like everything else you should invest your time and passion and compassion and love into, so you do the absolute very best you can. Because these are living souls that result in breeding, unlike baking a cake, you MUST remember, if or when you mess up, you can not just throw it away and start over....the price paid by those innocent puppies is immeasurable.

By the way, I do not consider myself knowledgable in baking, so I do NOT bake! I leave it to the people that know what they are doing and are great at it!

[hollie91999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Some people on this forum would like for you to believe that breeder membership on here and in general,do not want people breeding dogs....they would like you to believe the pro breeders are selfish and their motivation is to keep people from enjoying all the warm and fuzzy feelings a basket of puppies brings, or it is a financial greedy motivation, to "keep all the money gained from selling puppies for the professional breeders, etc. Of course, those reasons have nothing to do with why we discourage breeding by novices, and breeding stock that is actually perfect for a pet, but a disaster waiting to happen if that pet's pedigree is mixed with the wrong mate. I like to think of breeding like baking.

You have to be knowledgable about the basics of baking for starters, or nothing you do will come out right. You dont just go to the kitchen, throw stuff in a bowl, mix it all up, pour it into some pan..... You go to cooking/baking classes, you get mentoring from people that are good at baking, and you read tons of books written by people that know how to bake.

Next, you start with the very best ingredients. You know if you are using ingredients that are old or sour or tainted, your end product will be a mess. So you get the best eggs, the best flour, the best of all the ingredients that the recipe calls for.

Now you have to know what you are wanting to end up with when it comes out of the oven. Are you baking a pie or a cake? Are you baking a sheet cake or a bundt cake? Are you baking cookies? You MUST know what you are wanting to end up with before you know where to start. If you are baking a pineapple upside down cake, and instead of adding pineapple to your recepie, you throw in squash, or tomatoes or egg plant, you will not end up with a pineapple upside down cake. If you pour it all into cupcake tins, you wont have a pineapple upside down cake.

When the cake does not turn out, you get frustrated and you throw it in the trash...lesson learned. Unfortunately, when breeding, you can not just discard your mistakes. And remember, everything you produce, is YOUR responsibility....it is YOUR success or YOUR mistake.

Your dogs pedigree, and the pedigree of the dog you are breeding with, those are the "ingredients" for your final product. You must start with the best ingredients possible, good, strong, clean ingredients.....Your dogs pedigree is what your dog is contributing to the final product, what YOU are bringing to the table. The dog you are breeding to provides the other 1/2 of the ingredients. You want pedigrees that are genetically sound, no history of liver shunts, no heart issues, no kidney, pancreas, eye, hip issues....and you want these pedigrees clean and proven genetically sound for generations back, not just to mom and pop of the breeding pair, but way back for generations.....like at least 9 generations, even further back is better. You want to scour these pedigrees for not only genetic issues that are historically embedded in that pedigree, you dont want to duplicate dogs too closely in your outcome, because untill you REALLY know what you are doing and are soooo knowledgable about pedigrees and genetics and lines, you just want to be sure you do not start doubling up on the same dogs from both pedigrees.... no line breeding, no in breeding. And of course, there are "looks" that you get from specific lines.....personalities that are strong in these lines that go down through the years, into litters produced by these lines....to continue these great looks and personalities, you have to know what you are throwing together into the mix.

Breeding is not something to be taken light heartedly or just because you adore your little dog. Breeding is like everything else you should invest your time and passion and compassion and love into, so you do the absolute very best you can. Because these are living souls that result in breeding, unlike baking a cake, you MUST remember, if or when you mess up, you can not just throw it away and start over....the price paid by those innocent puppies is immeasurable.

By the way, I do not consider myself knowledgable in baking, so I do NOT bake! I leave it to the people that know what they are doing and are great at it!

Love this analogy!!!

[Lovetodream88]

She is to old and to small. If you really truly love her just get her fixed and buy another puppy. Breeding her could put her life at risk especially being older and smaller. Not having her fixed the older she gets is also putting her at risk the older she gets for serious infections that could kill her. You also risk her not accepting the pups and then you have to feed them every two hours, stimulate them to poo, clean them, keep them warm and everything the mother dog does.

[newyorkie34]

Thank you for the reply. I thought that by her just turning 6 would be ok.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by newyorkie34

Thank you for the reply. I thought that by her just turning 6 would be ok.

No not for the first litter.

[newyorkie34]

Thank you. This breaks my heart I wish I knew sooner on the age thing, I had no idea, and I'm kicking myself on the butt. Because I want her to have puppies, and it seems as if she would be ok, and a good mother too. Her dog sitter also groomer is a breeder but she breeds Shih Tzu's she has spent a lot of time with my little girl, and she says she's strong, and should be ok, and will help me through birth and all. But I want to get every possible feedback/advice I can get. I love her so much, and would love for her to have her pups for her, and yeah I may be selfish for me. I'll be happy with just one. I sense that she wants to too (yeah I may be wrong).

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by newyorkie34

Thank you. This breaks my heart I wish I knew sooner on the age thing, I had no idea, and I'm kicking myself on the butt. Because I want her to have puppies, and it seems as if she would be ok, and a good mother too. Her dog sitter also groomer is a breeder but she breeds Shih Tzu's she has spent a lot of time with my little girl, and she says she's strong, and should be ok, and will help me through birth and all. But I want to get every possible feedback/advice I can get. I love her so much, and would love for her to have her pups for her, and yeah I may be selfish for me. I'll be happy with just one. I sense that she wants to too (yeah I may be wrong).

Dogs don't want to have puppies and they don't miss anything by not having them. If you love her so very much why risk her life? Is a puppy that important to you? What if a terrible illness runs in her lines and the puppy gets it and either suffers and dies or has to suffer there whole life with that illness?

[Clydes]

Dogs requires great care during certain phases of breeding, at time of giving birth or during their gestation period. Avoid breeding on the primary heat and female bulldog can also be bred on the uninterrupted heats that come after the primary heat has already passed the female.

[MyFairLacy]

Breeding for the first time at her age is really not recommended. Breeding between two and three years of age is usually recommended for the first breeding. Most will also retire by age six from breeding. I really recommend spaying her. She is small and six years old and your pet. The best thing to do is buy another puppy from a reputable breeder or rescue one to keep her company.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by newyorkie34

Thank you. This breaks my heart I wish I knew sooner on the age thing, I had no idea, and I'm kicking myself on the butt. Because I want her to have puppies, and it seems as if she would be ok, and a good mother too. Her dog sitter also groomer is a breeder but she breeds Shih Tzu's she has spent a lot of time with my little girl, and she says she's strong, and should be ok, and will help me through birth and all. But I want to get every possible feedback/advice I can get. I love her so much, and would love for her to have her pups for her, and yeah I may be selfish for me. I'll be happy with just one. I sense that she wants to too (yeah I may be wrong).

You need to keep in mind your friend is probably not a reputable breeder or even a good one if she one is recommending you breed a 6 year old girl for the first time and two that you breed and she has no history of you dog and back several generations. You have got to think more about your dog and not about you. You want a puppy but she doesn't and is putting her life at risky just because you want a puppy worth it? Birth is painful extremely so and dogs don't even get the medicine humans can so is it worth putting her through all the pain so you can have a puppy? It would be cheaper and better to just buy another puppy. What if she gives birth when your at work but has issues and and no one is there to help her so she dies? Little dogs actually require help to birth a lot of times. Do you know what to do if a puppy gets stuck? If you get X-rays and it says she is having no doubt 5 puppy's and she only has four do you know how to feel for another pup or that if there is another pup in there that if she doesn't have it that is could kill her? Do you know every single thing that could go wrong and how to deal with it? You can't just move your dog when she is ready to whelp to an unfamiliar environment or that will stress her out? Do you know you have to dock the tails and remove the dew claws at a few days old? Do you really even realize her age very much increases the risks a lot? What are you going to do if she has five puppies? Are you going to sell them?

[gemy]

There are many good points that have been raised. Seriously re-consider this for your gal. The fact that you have not researched way earlier what is the prime age to breed your gal indicates you have not done a lot research into what it takes to breed a sound dog to a sound dog, to produce in turn sound and healthy puppies.


I can almost guarantee you have not done the specific pre-breeding tests that are recommended. For example; how sure are you, that your gal is clear of PRA or cataracts? A general vet can't tell you that. You need to see an opthamologist to have her eyes examined. Cataracts can even show up as late as six years old, I know, because I have one retired breeding male that on his last Opthamologist exam, was discovered to have Cataracts. It is thought to be an genetically inherited disease. He tested clear at 1yr 2 yr old 3yr old and 4yr old. There were no overt signs as his cataract is very small.


Have your done a BATS test on your gal? It is one of the recommended tests to be done, and specifically looks at liver function. There is a liver disease actually there are a few, but MVD and LS are two very common ones in Yorkies. The signs n symptoms of either disease can be very mild and are often not investigated by the owner with their vet. In other words un-diagnosed for years, until something *tips* the health of the dog. Imagine if your gal has this and you breed her to a male with this, and or a male who has a lot of liver problems in his background.
And BTW even if you have done complete regular Blood panels on your gal, all liver problems do not show up. You need this quite specific test.

Then there are joint problems. Is your gal clear of LP? Elbow dysplasia and or hip dysplasia? Again ED and HD must be diagnosed through special Xrays and read by a specialist. Very mild cases of ED HD and LP go unremarked for many years, and then ageing starts and *arthritis* sets in, often mis-diagnosed as the normal ageing process..........instead of the consequences of ED and or HD.


C-section? Wow on what basis did your vet forecast a 50.50 chance thereof? Look at it this way, how sure are you that you want to put this gal on the risk of surgery and all surgeries have risks! Also what about after the C section? There are more than a few gals that refuse to nurse their puppy/puppies.


As a breeder I can honestly say I have never seen any gal give signs that she *wants* to have puppies. What is how-ever looked for is a good guess on how well she would be as a mother to pups. This gal is the one who will train and socialize and introduce your pups to the doggy world; and not every gal is temperamentally suited to it. And I am sorry to bring this analog up, but not every woman is suited to be a mother. Dogs are the same way.


Six years old is very late and therefor very risky to have a first litter of pups for ANY breed of dog.


I do strongly encourage you to have a frank discussion with your vet as every season that goes by your gal is at a substantial risk of pyrometra and that is deadly!


IMO you should not breed this gal, and also should spay her for her long term health. Prior to spaying I urge you to not only get the pre-op blood work done, but a BATS test.