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- Breeder Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/)

- - NEVER never bred a TINY (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/24166-never-never-bred-tiny.html)

RMKC	12-02-2005 08:30 AM

Congrats ! Iam so sorry your Baby had to go through so much pain, how sad , but glad it turned out well.
I wanted Rosi to have a litter, but promised my vet from the beginning that if she didn weigh at least 4 1/2 -5 pounds by the time she was 6 mo old i would spay her. Well at 7 mo. she was 3.88 so i took her in and had her spayed !
Big Kisses for Momma !

ttreatsyorkies

12-02-2005 08:36 AM

Thanks for sharing with us. I know how hard it is to go through an uneventful delivery I couldn't imagine going through what you have. I know someone who's tiny, barely4lb, had 2 pups that weighed 3+oz. I cant imagine why they would have risked it. Not only that, the pups are now just 5 weeks and they have already been taken away and weaned from the mom. I have tried to talk to them and teach them everything that I have learned but they don't seem to listen. There are people out there that purposefully breed for tinies, and unfortunetly as long as people keep wanting the tinies than it will continue. There are just to many problems that can happen with an average size mom, we shouldn't increase their risks just in hopes of producing tinies. I know Belle's last litter one of her females didn't reach 4 lbs, and she is at 7lbs. So tinies can come from all size mommies. Please let us know how things go.

chachi

12-02-2005 08:57 AM

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I am sorry your mommy had to go through that. I am also sorry you lost a pup. I am glad mommy and pups are doing okay now. Hopefully people will learn from hearing you experrience although I dont know. There is someone on here now that breeds tinys and just says the risks just go with the territiory. Maybe she will read your story and learn something.

luvdorkyyorkies

12-02-2005 08:59 AM

Ditto..........if you want a littler yorkies you can still get it by breeding healthy sized females. Its in your best interest and your yorkies.

cheryl000

12-02-2005 09:08 AM

tiny

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkiemommy

I am terribly sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your story. I do have a question though-what size was the male that she was bred to? Does this make a difference? Both of my Yorkies are tinies-3 lbs or so with the male being smaller than the female. Can these two have puppies together or would it be wiser to spay her and stud him out? We don't want the money from the puppies-only wanted to let her have 1 litter and keep them ourselves :)

I honestly would not recommend breeding your female, esspecially if you're not experienced about. You have to know what to look for in an emergency. There is a alot more to having a litter than you would expect. You should be saving money now because she would more than likely need a c-section, which will cost between $500-1200. You also need to buy lots of supplies for the mother and her puppies including special food. Being that small you are risking her life. Could you deal with it if something were to happen to her that could have been prevented. Please think hard about what happened to Peanut who is bigger than your females. Peanut's mom said that the male was smaller, it doesn't matter because the parents or grandparents could have been bigger. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Diego

12-02-2005 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkiemommy

Just my opinion , it would be wiser to have your female spayed . I have 2 small girls and I have had them spayed even if peoples were telling me they would be fine to have pups . My little male will be neuter as soon as he will be old enough even if I know that peoples with females would like to have him as father of their babies .

txshopper73

12-02-2005 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkiemommy

My recommendation to you is to spay your girls. Two small parents will NOT necessarily mean small puppies.

taje	12-02-2005 09:57 AM

I appreciate the warning, everyone tells me Pita is too small, she's barely 4 pounds. It is so tempting to breed her tho. After reading your story I am really having a wake up call.

Sorry you and your baby had to go thro such hell. Enjoy the babies now.

newyorkiemommy

12-02-2005 10:27 AM

Thank you for the advice-I definitely have no intention of putting my baby at risk. I guess my best bet would be to spay her, and stud the male to get one of the puppies from that litter. We didn't buy our tinies on purpose-they just both turned out to be that way.

luvdorkyyorkies

12-02-2005 10:42 AM

Hi,
Not trying to tell you what to do honestly, but really think long and hard about not breeding her. I raised Peanut from a puppy especially for breeding. I KNEW deep down it wasnt a good idea. I basically ignorred the proven guidelines and thought if I find the right male who is small...etc it might work. Its very hard to spend several months waiting, hoping, dreaming, then having to tell yourself................honestly.......this isnt right... Basically I tried to fool myself and also defend my decision.
I can tell you this since it is a very fresh terrible feeling and thought in my mind.......you really dont understand the whole experience until you are at the crucial moment in it, kinda like a bad dream but you wake up from that, you cant from this.........this experience is real and once you start that ball rolling you cant change what can be a tragic outcome. I consider my yorkie very lucky.
I have a long relationship with my vet, not all from yorkies, we are avid animal lovers and have in the past brought in strays.....raised a few horses, a few siberian huskies several years ago...etc.
His last words to me " Kelly I hope you have learned from this experience"
He was very nice to me what he said.......I know what he was thinking.

txshopper73

12-02-2005 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

His last words to me " Kelly I hope you have learned from this experience"

WOW! That gave me chills!

cheryl000

12-02-2005 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

It sounds like you have a great vet. I have heard of some vets saying that size doesn't matter. I think those vets are thinking about the $$ from the c-sections, I can't figure out any other reasons. Good vets are hard to find. Thank you for sharing your story, it looks like it might have already prevented a couple dogs from going through what poor peanut did.

red98vett

12-02-2005 05:00 PM

Kelly (luvdorkyyorkies) - how ARE the puppies doing ? It's been about 24 hours now and I just wanted to see how they are doing and how is your mommy ?

Again .....thank you for sharing...I'm wishing you the best of luck with your new puppies and hope they are doing well and eating ...and hope your little mom gets to feeling better really soon. I'd love to see pictures of your new babies.

wnalegria

12-02-2005 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

This is really in response to the breeding tinies poll that is now closed. Never bred a tiny, dont go against the norm, if you care about your baby dont do it. This is my very recent experience. I am upset with myself for putting my lil girl thru this. Please Learn from this......truly if you have a heart you never want to have this experience with your pet.
It will take me awhile to get over how cruel I was to my 3 1/2 lb baby.

Oh My........what a night.
Peanut had babies and it sure wasnt fun. She went into to labor about 8:30-9:00 pm. Around midnight I decided to call my vet since there really was no progress (no waterbag) so I met him & his assistant at the clinic.
She had to have a c section and it was pretty awful really...I MEAN HORRIBLE! SHe had 3 girl puppies born........they were extremely hard to rouse because of the medication, two came out of it, the other took about 6 breaths then stopped. They tried to give her a shot under her tongue to stimulate her and it didnt work. I tried everything, rubbing her like crazy breaths to the mouth for about 15 minutes, she died.Peanut started waking up at the end of the procedure (stitching) and I know she felt every bit of the last 8 to 10 stitches. My vet kept apolizing to me and Peanut but he refused to give her anything because he said it was so important she not be asleep now. He said she had to be awake for her pups and it wasnt good for her either. I kept apologing to Peanut for what I had done.
When we packed them up and brought them home(hot water bottles around them), one girl was soooooo cold to the touch, so I warmed her by the woodstove and gave her a tiny bit of supplement cause they had never latched on. Did the same for other little girl. After doing all I felt I could do they stayed with mommy and I was pretty sure I would wake up with an hours sleep to dead puppies. But this am they are latched on and much more active. Peanut is being a good mama for them. She is on antibiotics for a week, plus had a shot of PCN.
These puppies weigh 4 and 5 ozs. She never could have had them and she will never have puppies again. Ill never put her through that again.
After her pups are weaned and shes fully recovered Im getting her spay. Live and learn but I wish I never would have bred her after seeing her go thru that. Again it was so cruel and I was SO WRONG.

Kelly- my heart goes out to you. I am so sorry about what your little gal went through and your loss. Thank you for standing up and sharing this with YT. Many of us are acused of getting on our soap box and preaching about the dangers of breeding and about breeding little ones. You have put it in black and white in sharing your experience. Thank you for being so brave.

I challenge each and everyone of you who think this is a lark to read Kelly's post several times and let it sink in. Kelly was lucky her baby survived the c-section many do not.

red98vett

12-03-2005 04:04 AM

Kathy - you're so right - I read her post several times myself .....and while I debate alot against breeding tinies - I learned something from her experience that made me even more against it -

I am not a breeder.... but I know how much I love animals and hate seeing them in pain - THIS Thread just brings it all home.... and I applaud Kelly for putting it out here for all to read.

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