A 'Nosey' question
 

I saw the strangest thing on the net. A very young Yorkie puppy with a pink nose. What does this mean?
I wonder is if it turns black at maturity? One of my Biewer girls had a spotted nose (pink and black) which turned black when just was just over a year old. It's all black no sign of pink.

This pup was standard color but with a pink nose.

I wonder if this is a sign of a Yorkie with the Piebald Gene. Hmmm...anyone heard of this before. I've been trying to find the picture but I can't.

Irene

nose
 

Not unsual on a young pup...most are black by 8 weeks.

Good to know. I have not encountered that in my breeding program and if I did I would be FREAKING!!..lolol.

You should have seen how mean someone was to me because Harmony my Biewer had a spotted nose. :mad: I laugh today because it's solid black. I would think as long as the Yorkies nose turns black it's nothing to worry about. Just like my Biewer.

Thanks Pat!
Irene

I've never seen one, but thanks for the information!!

wow, i had never heard of that before! interesting though

two questions
 

What is a Piebald Gene?? another question: Is parti and biewer the same type of yorkie?

I would like to know this to.
I have never had a pink nose either. I know light rimmed eyes are not desirable & usually stay light.

They are not the same. Parti Yorkies have a wide range of pattenrs and markings and do not have a standard. When you breed Partis you can get a varitey of markings from the standard blue/tan to almost all white with a patch of color here and there.

Biewers are considered a separate breed because they have standard which calls for markings to be in a specific place on the body. And when you breed 2 biewers together you will get the same pattern that's described in the standard in every litter.

If you breed the 2 together you will ruin the pattern of the Biewer and the consistancy.

Thanks for asking and not assuming the are the same!

Irene

Bumping for 'Nosey' :p :D :D

I have been researching about the piebald gene and cannot find any info about the difference, if any, between the piebald gene that produces the Biewer and the piebald gene that produces the partis. Could someone let me know where this info can be found..Since I have puppies that are Biewer and others that are a combo of parti and Biewers, I have the chance to watch both grow and they look the same. In every Biewer litter there are many patterns and yet they are called Biewers..
Any help appreciated...

Rini, I think that the genes are probably the same piebald gene in both, but with the parties they haven't been breed enough over here so the variations on where the coloring is, is still random with them. With the Biewers they have the white belly, 4 while legs, and supposedly 3 colors on the face area. These are the colors that all Biewers should carry in the right places. I'm sure that even with the Biewers in years to come they will get the coloring even more precise. So I think that's why the Biewers should be bred with Biewers just so the coloring will get stronger where it belongs...

I have a small male Biewer stud that I plan to use with my Biewers. I have the parti male that has the exact same specific markings in the same places and he is the sire of the litter that are ready to go to their forever homes. The puppies are marked correctly except for the dark extending down a bit further on the leg. Other than that, they all are the same. Yet, I keep seeing litters of Biewers in which the colors are not the standard and yet they are being referred to as Biewers. That leads me to believe we are dealing with the same everything except for very selective breeding (in-line) to produce the pattern that is considered the standard.
Even the Biewers whose pics I have seen in shows are not all the same. They sure do make for interesting prospects in our breeding programs...

Rini,

Mr Biewer developed a standard in the Biewer which is what Theresa has explained. To start a new breed it needs to have a standard and every thing produced from that breed should produce the markings and characteristics described in the standard. So if you breed true Biewer to true Biewer you should get the markings listed in the standard, not traditional colored yorkies or mismatched patterns. Also, when you read the history of the Biewer, the intention Mr Biewer had was to create a separate breed. I prefer to just call them Biewers to avoid confusion.

When comparing pics of my Biewers to your Avatar, I see a destinct difference in Biewers and Partis; coat texture and color.

Irene

I agree some can vary but remember this breed is only 20 yrs young. IMO those that are not within the standard should not be bred. That's how the focus of my Breeding program.
With all do respect Rini, I feel you are mixing breeds by breeding Biewer to Parties and hope you do not intend on calling the pups Biewers. Not that they will be any less cute. Golly the are beautiful. Also, how do you plan on registering the puppies? German or American registry?

Irene

The dogs in my avatar are Biewers except for one..I agree that the Biewers worked to standardize their dogs and I, too, prefer to call them Biewers. Isn't there one registry that someone mentioned that registers them as Biewer Yorkshire Terriers or something? I remember thinking it sounded confusing at the time..

I didn't realize you had the other pics flipping in your Avatar. I always remember the one with the red bow which is your Parti I was refering to him. I do see a difference between the other 2 and your Parti.

Well I think Mr Biewer made this more confusing by NOT dropping Yorkshire Terrier from the name. Are you asking about a German or US registry?
It does get 'hairy' :p doesn't it?..lolol

To add, a true Biewer would be traced back to the Fru Fru of Friedheck and Darling of Friedheck as stated in the history. If you breed to a Parti because they happen to share the same gene, you still are 'tainting' that bloodline of origin.

A little over a year ago, we noticed a small area in the center of Toto's nose had turned pink! I, of course, hit "blind panic" mode! One of our vets said it is called "snow nose" and is common. It's the loss of pigmentation and usually happens when the animal isn't exposed to sunlight, which Toto isn't very often. It's no problem unless it appears on other normally black areas, ie, the lips or around the eyes. She said that in those cases, it's a possible indication of underlying health problems. She said that some of her dogs get it and many times it goes away in the summer months when there is more exposure to the sun. I always "touch up" her pictures! ;)

Mercy! Toto is just darling! Thanks for the insight on the 'nosey' question. I wonder if certain ones are more suseptiable than others..hmmm.

Since I have puppies that are Biewer and others that are a combo of parti and Biewers, I have the chance to watch both grow and they look the same. In every Biewer litter there are many patterns and yet they are called Biewers..
Any help appreciated...[/QUOTE]
To: Stellaryorkies@aol.com
cc: Irene_J_Berlovan@keybank.com
Subject: RE: Biewer talk

And here is lies the problem and nemesis of every responsible pure bred dog breeder. Are those who will deviate from the to gain what “they want”, not what the breed standard calls for.
Certainly it sounds like the “betterment of the breed” is not being taken into consideration.
From my understanding,unless you are breeding true Biewer to true Biewer, what you are getting is MIXED breeds that cannot be registered, period. [in a Registry of any merrit anyway]
just because a yorkie has 3 colors it is not make it a Biewer. Or because it's brown is it rare, badly bred anomoly yes, rare no.

We are all capable of putting two dogs together and come up with a cute MUTT, but a mutt by any other name is still a mutt. It’s the hard work, study, blood sweat and tears, and mostly the patience that goes hand in hand with PROPER BREEDING that counts. Nothing in the proper breeding ethic comes easily or fast. And badly bred color anomolies should not be bred.

Nothing will kill the process of a new breed faster than deviation from a standard, nor will it gain any influence with responsible breeders, it will simply be shunned unless it is taken very seriously.
Sorry if this seems like flaming, not my intention.
Catalan~

First, welcome to YT. You are so right--anyone can put dogs together and make puppies. And, there are others who are responsible who work to develop a new breed or line.
We will always have differing opinions about what that means and we can always express them. That is what is great about a forum....Right?

We will always have differing opinions about what that means and we can always express them. That is what is great about a forum....Right?[/QUOTE].........................................

Thanks for the welcome, and yes forums are great for expressing opinion.

However, in my way of thinking, you may differ opinions of type and style but when it comes to standard, you mustn't differ by adding this or that. That is what Standards are for, to follow, to make the breed better, to achieve excellence within a standard.
It is not like adding several different spices to a sauce. Breeding is more of a science.
I guess the fact that people breed tri color yorkies together and call them Biewers is why most Responsible purebred Yorkshire Terrier breeders cringe, because it perverts the PB YT.
The same PB Biewer people cringe at the thought of tri/tri breedings. It preverts the Biewer standard. hope you can make sence of this!! :eek:
Catalan~

Another thing that comes to mind is Poodles come in a Parti color. Breeding a Parti Poodle to a Parti Yorkie is considered a mixed breed. So should the breeding Parti Yorkies to Biewers. Sorry I am EXTREMLY passionate about Biewers and am very saddened to see them bred when the history and the standard are not followed. I am just trying to educate that there is a difference between a True Biewer and Partis.

As I read the standards and info about Biewers, they have always been called BiewerYorkshire Terriers. Standard color Yorkies are Yorkshire Terriers. Purebred parti-marked Yorkies are called Yorkshire Terriers. Therefore, the reasoning would be that a Yorkshire Terrier by any color, if purebred! is a Yorkshire Terrier and cannot be considered a MIXED breed as the example you used of Yorkie/Poodle mixes. That example is like comparing apples and oranges, IMO..
What we are discussing, I think, is NOT genes but simply bloodlines. Any other opinions out there??
And, I am somewhat confused about the post from Catalan..was this supposed to be a post on YT or a letter to Irene? Just wondering about this one since it was number 1 or 2 post..
I will take the time to re-read the history of the development of the Biewer by the Biewers. I was under the impression that their breed stock was strictly Yorkshire Terriers in-bred or line-bred to assure that the recessive piebald gene would influence the colors of black, white and tan. Is that not correct?
Okay, now I will start my search to find out what breed Fru Fru and Darling of Friedhech were...and how I can research to make sure that my 3 Biewers are indeed as they are registered or if I and many others have been duped by German breeders who breed and sell their dogs as Biewers. If they cannot relate them back to FruFru and Darling, then they surely cannot be true Biewers as the standards say.
I do not plan to call my puppies Biewers. There is no reason to do that since they are going to pet homes and will not be bred..When I was considering buying Harvey, there was no doubt he was/is Biewer. He is the brother to Harmony and Hope, I believe.

I will respectfully agree to disagree :thumbup:

But I did want to add a few more things :D

They are called Biewer Yorkshire Terriers. The intent to create a standard which describes markings to be specified is to create a separate breed. Just because the originated from B/G Yorkie parents doesn't mean they are still Yorkies. They have a standard now and the true Biewers should produce what's called in the standard for the most part. Of course you have those that breed mismarked Biewers which reverses all the sweat blood and tears Mr BIewer put into developing this breed.
For example, Yorkies were created from mixing several breeds right? So back then the argument could have been well the are 'Mutts'. Well guess what. They are now a breed of their own. Why? Because they have a standard and when bred responsibly they will produce the standard right? Samething with the Biewers. It may be splitting hairs but the fact remains, they are separate. I just want to emphasize this for those that read this and get confused. What you decide to do with your foundation is your business really it is. But when it comes to explaining the Biewer I feel I need to state the facts that I have been taught and that I follow with the club I belong to.

Another interesting thing is some people have Biewers that still have the original Fru Fru and Darling ancestors in the 3 or 4th gen pedigree. Those lines should not be taken lightly. You still have some very close breeding. I've had some inexperienced person brag that they had the original Friedrick lines. They are in the wrong hands and it wouldn't surprise me to see some major hereditary defects come from carelessly breeding. When that happends then everyones gonna say "oh Biewers have Liver Shunt (or whatever defect) running rampant".
Another thing, is Brokers. The majority of the Biewers in the US that are for breeding I bet were bought through brokers. In fact, I will put money on it. Which works against the betterment of the BIewer breed. The broker didn't compare pedigrees to make sure the sire and dams will be compatiable and not too closely related. I have seen Biewers sold for breeding from a broker that was almost all white with a patch around it's eye. The person was told by the broker you want soem with more whtie like that...guess what..No you don't! Nausiates me!!! They don't have clue because all they see is money. All this carelessness (not saying you Rini) is how we will end up with a handful of True Biewers that are good represenations of the breed.

I hope I am not too confusing in my post. I am just typing what comes to mind.

Stepping off my soapbox to smoke a cigarette and have a shot! :eek: j/k

Irene

Snow nose
 

My girl gets snow nose.
She was a dark button nose till the sun is setting early and now she paling up for the winter. She had it last winter and come spring it was dark again.

Joy

This is a quote from Irene in which she says that she hopes I do not intend on calling the pups "Biewers" I was gonna let this pass but I re-read it and I don't like the inference that I am dishonest and would even consider calling them Biewers. I have been so open about their parentage that most persons would already know that I am honest and that statement would not have been posted..I spoke with my hubby about it to see how he read that statement and he agreed with me and that gave me even more reason to respond to this..

"With all do respect Rini, I feel you are mixing breeds by breeding Biewer to Parties and hope you do not intend on calling the pups Biewers. "

whispermom i think your babies are so cute, id love one and it wouldnt bother me if it was partie or full biewer id love it anyway, and coming from you id no it was well breed and cared for so if you want to breed the two go ahead and do so we no you wouldnt lie and say they were full biewers.
i wish we had biewers or parties over here in the uk but iv never seen 1.

I am not saying you were dishonest. It seemed to me that you changed your mind is all. I had asked you in the past if you planned on breeding your Biewers and Parti together. You told me no, you had the 'oops' litter but your intentions were to keep the breeds separate. Reading your posts on this thread, you clearly stated you will breed them together. I see you changed your mind. OK...My statement you quoted above was to see if you also changed your mind about what you were going to call them. Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are dishonest. So you replied to my statement. That cleared up the question I had in my mind. We may not agree but I am not one to play those kinds of games Rini. If it came across differently to you then I apologize. Implying that you are dishonest was not my intent for posting that statement. You have always been honest when I would ask questions in the past. Just wanting to see if you changed your mind on what you plan on calling the pups produced from mixing Partis with Biewers.

Hope this clear the misunderstanding up.

Irene

Rini - (Whispersmom) ......I LOVE the name you gave your babies....BIEWTIES .... and they ARE... real beauties !