Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4271389)

That may be true if you're trying to create a new breed of dog, but NOT if you're trying to maintain and improve an existing breed of dog. There is nothing old, new, heroic, trippy, or rainbowesque about slipping a mongrel into ones breeding lineage--it's dishonest and unethical.

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4271463)

PStinard, I love you! You are such a valuable asset to this community...your knowledge is priceless, and believe me, you are helping way more than you know...!!! Awesome!! Thank you so much for all you do and explaining the "technical" side of things!

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4271187)

Coat color DNA testing in dogs: Theory meets practice

This article is behind a pay firewall, but it describes commercial DNA testing for coat color genes in dogs and has a table of alleles that have been tested for in various breeds, including the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkies have been tested for the presence of "sp" (Parti color), "b" (brown), and "e" ("Gold Dust") alleles. The only problem is that these alleles have very specific DNA fingerprints, and they arose in other breeds. They could not have arisen spontaneously in the Yorkshire Terrier.

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4271452)

Marlene, you are breeding Shihpoos, Dachs, merle Dachs, Morkies etc......you are a back yard breeder, you are not even an entrepreneur and just because you are well versed in scientific verbage and know something about genetics...you are wrong, you are more than wrong.

I will use layman terms because I am not a breeder nor geneticist. You are breeding HYBRID, DESIGNER DOGS and making money off their backs, you are by far an accomplished creator, nature did not intend for you to play mad scientist...you must be so envious of the breeders who work so hard to breed to standard and all their hardwork...you throw two dogs together and call them Teacup, miniature, Hybrid, etc...what the hell is that? You play people for fools and market toward innocent people with little knowledge and your dogs are nothing more products of two common mutts...I've seen many of your dogs, Michale, Monet, Mona Lisa, Mork, Mindy and quite frankly they don't look like the best representations of their breeds, and I don't mean this as a slam against them (I'd rather offend you then your dogs so please don't read this to them)...wait they are not even a breed...they are mutts, this is according to your logic, by the way.

You are the kind of breeder that produces many of these dogs in shelters and rescues...Your breeding program is pathetic and I detest breeders such as yourself. Do your pups a favor, release them from your laboratory of creation and get them good homes, be done with this, where on earth is your conscience?

Originally Posted by normarae63 (Post 4271774)

Is the table the same or significantly changed from the table shown in the article I posted from 2002? Just curious how much has changed in the dog breeding world according to the experts since then.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4271389)

That may be true if you're trying to create a new breed of dog, but NOT if you're trying to maintain and improve an existing breed of dog. There is nothing old, new, heroic, trippy, or rainbowesque about slipping a mongrel into ones breeding lineage--it's dishonest and unethical.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4272024)

Pstinard: research what the solution was for the rampant hyperuricosuria defect in Dalmations.

I should not post, as my memory is a little vague on the details. But the breeders were asleep at the switch as it were, and finally had no viable breeding dogs to breed as this dominant gene was rampant throughout the breeding world of Dalmations.

Now one very brave breeder did something about this. How-ever his motives were to save this lovely breed, and did it very knowingly and with knowledge. He did have to outcross, and then spent a long time, breeding back into purebred Dalmations without this very un-healthy gene.

What this person is doing, is not of the same ilk, in my mind.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4272024)

Pstinard: research what the solution was for the rampant hyperuricosuria defect in Dalmations.

I should not post, as my memory is a little vague on the details. But the breeders were asleep at the switch as it were, and finally had no viable breeding dogs to breed as this dominant gene was rampant throughout the breeding world of Dalmations.

Now one very brave breeder did something about this. How-ever his motives were to save this lovely breed, and did it very knowingly and with knowledge. He did have to outcross, and then spent a long time, breeding back into purebred Dalmations without this very un-healthy gene.

What this person is doing, is not of the same ilk, in my mind.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4272162)

Hi, I'll park some links here so people can read up on this. If any of these are behind firewalls, I'll quote the relevant parts later. Cross breeding might be fine for a breed of dog in which ALL individuals are affected by a genetic disease, but there are still plenty of healthy breed standard Yorkshire Terriers. The people doing cross breeding with Yorkies are doing so in order to breed in "lovely" coat colors.

Mutations in the SLC2A9 Gene Cause Hyperuricosuria and Hyperuricemia in the Dog

About The Dalmatian Heritage Project - Dalmatian Puppy Breeding & Adoption - Hayward, California

Exclusion of Urate Oxidase as a Candidate Gene for Hyperuricosuria in the Dalmatian Dog Using an Interbreed Backcross

A Dalmatian Study—The Genetic Correction of Health Problems By Robert H. Schaible, Ph.D.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4272182)

I forgot to mention that the hyperuricosuria defect in Dalmations is recessive, not dominant.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4272178)

From what I gathered in a quick glance at the Dalmation Heritage Project, a Dalmation was crossed to a healthy Pointer, and then backcrossed to purebred Dalmations for 10 generations, selecting the healthy Dalmations each generation. They are still maintaining the gene in the heterozygous (carrier) state, because they are afraid that with such a low amount of diversity from doing this kind of breeding, the gene pool would be too small if they started creating homozygous healthy Dalmations.

Now, if they're being this careful and ethical with Dalmations, imagine how unethical the breeders are who are crossing other breeds to Yorkies for only three generations and then creating homozygous chocolate, parti, or gold dust Yorkies. :(

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4272421)

Does anyone know why my Mia(1) was deaf? She was a Biewer, verrrrryyyy pink skin, spotted like a dalmation (not insinuating she has any dalmation)....just curious what would cause this?

Phil Mia died early this year from heart condition, she was 1 years old. (She was a very very special girl, she was Lynzy in a dogs body)!!!

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4272421)

Does anyone know why my Mia(1) was deaf? She was a Biewer, verrrrryyyy pink skin, spotted like a dalmation (not insinuating she has any dalmation)....just curious what would cause this?

Phil Mia died early this year from heart condition, she was 1 years old. (She was a very very special girl, she was Lynzy in a dogs body)!!!

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4272451)

Here is a quote from one article about deafness in dogs that have the piebald (sp) gene. This is the color gene carried by Biewers and Dalmatians:

From Genetics of Deafness in Dogs

Genetic transmission of deafness in dogs with the piebald (sp) and extreme white piebald (sw) pigment genes, such as the Dalmatian, is less clear. These genes affect the amount and distribution of white areas on the body. Deafness in Dalmatians does not appear to be autosomal dominant, since deaf puppies result from hearing parents. It does not appear to be a simple recessive disorder, since we have bred pairs of deaf Dalmatians and obtained bilaterally hearing and unilaterally hearing puppies, when all should have been deaf if the disorder was recessive. These findings might be explained by a multi-gene cause, the presence of two different autosomal recessive deafness genes, or a syndrome with incomplete penetrance. Further studies (in progress) will be required to determine the mechanisms. Several candidate genes known to cause pigment-related deafness in humans or mice have been eliminated as the possible cause of pigment-associated deafness in Dalmatians. Whole-genome screens will hopefully identify the cause in this and other breeds.

Here is a link to more information about deafness in white spotted dogs:

DDEAF FAQ's

And a full length scientific article:

http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/VetJDeaf2004.pdf

Deafness is related to white pigmentation, because melanin is required in the ears for hearing.

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4272458)

I could not open the 2nd link might be my adobe, I will check. Mia2 who is sister to Mia1 :eek: has the unbelieveable pink skin too but she can hear, so far no health issues.

Thanks for the reading material I want to understand this.

p.s. do you think her heart disease was in relation to the deafness? Stupid question I'm sure...but just curious if you've heard of that combo.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4272478)

Thanks Phil. For sure you are a Godsend, when my aged memory, and my sad lack of search skills combine. I was pretty sure there was a deaf/piebald link.

Heart disease is also twigging here, although I did read you researched and found no link... to deafness; but how about albinos? This might be a wives tale I heard 30 or more years ago.

Originally Posted by tricia208 (Post 4273553)

I am not sure if this applies in this case but there is a connection with deafness and heart disease in humans. This is the article I read a few months ago. I did not believe I kept the link but here it is if anyone is interested:

Something You Don't Hear Much About: Hearing Loss Tied To Heart Disease

Humans and canines do share a small percentage of genetic material but what are the odds it would include this. The article is from 2005 so maybe there is current information. Just thought I would share it.

Originally Posted by WheresGA (Post 4759282)

I'm about 10 years late but I made it! I have a blue merle. If you are still out there, here's some pics!

Originally Posted by WheresGA (Post 4759339)

Ckc registered

Originally Posted by WheresGA (Post 4759370)

Still love him and do not care! thanks