Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268437)

That's the slippery slope to unscrupulous breeding and the death of the Yorkshire Terrier as a distinct breed. Sad.

Originally Posted by joyziegirl (Post 4268373)

Guess you didn't read what the OP said,.... No controversy please !!!!!
And who are you to ask me why I'm here, do you own this website? I was talking to the OP, not you, so I would appreciate if you mind your own business. If Picasso seen things in just one color, he would have painted just one picture.

My hat is off to anyone that dares to charter unknown waters, just to make it easier for others to follow. http://merleyorkshire.webnode.cz/

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268436)

The part of the comment that I bolded about MARS testing is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. SMH. The ONLY reason the MARS test goes back only 3 generations is because that's all the technology currently allows--if they could go back to the beginning of creation, I assure you that they would. It is NOT because "it really doesn't matter what is in a breed before that as long as it has been bred back to it own kind for three generations." MARS NEVER said such a thing! This is a lazy excuse for unscrupulous breeders to get "new" and "exciting" colors into "Yorkies" and then plead innocence/ignorance/whatever. I'm appalled...

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268438)

I'm here. Merles are beautiful, but they do have increased risks of health problems (blindness and deafness) and Merle "Yorkies" are NOT Yorkshire Terriers, they are crossbred dogs. What really ticks me off, though, is the idea that people might be trying to trick the MARS test by crossing color genes from other breeds into Yorkies for more than 3 generations and thinking somehow that it must be okay. There is no better way to spell u-n-s-c-r-u-p-u-l-o-u-s.

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4268440)

And my heart aches...not just for this breed which I adore but for all the other breeds as well...the manmade catastrophic defects being found in dogs today break any heart...time and time again I shake my head...living in 2013 and we are still allowing uneducated/untrained/unscrupulous without conscience people, force upon these dogs breedings that bring forth defective animals into the gene pools...if they even live that long. It is out of control....

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4268524)

Marlene???? is that you???

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268436)

The part of the comment that I bolded about MARS testing is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. SMH. The ONLY reason the MARS test goes back only 3 generations is because that's all the technology currently allows--if they could go back to the beginning of creation, I assure you that they would. It is NOT because "it really doesn't matter what is in a breed before that as long as it has been bred back to it own kind for three generations." MARS NEVER said such a thing! This is a lazy excuse for unscrupulous breeders to get "new" and "exciting" colors into "Yorkies" and then plead innocence/ignorance/whatever. I'm appalled...

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268437)

That's the slippery slope to unscrupulous breeding and the death of the Yorkshire Terrier as a distinct breed. Sad.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268438)

I'm here. Merles are beautiful, but they do have increased risks of health problems (blindness and deafness) and Merle "Yorkies" are NOT Yorkshire Terriers, they are crossbred dogs. What really ticks me off, though, is the idea that people might be trying to trick the MARS test by crossing color genes from other breeds into Yorkies for more than 3 generations and thinking somehow that it must be okay. There is no better way to spell u-n-s-c-r-u-p-u-l-o-u-s.

Originally Posted by joyziegirl (Post 4267216)

The lady breeding merle Yorkies is from Germany I believe. She has a Facebook page called Merle Yorkshire Terriers, I been following it for a few years now. You could see that she most like outcrossed her yorkie with a long coat merle cobby Chihuahua, than crossed back the chorkies to the Yorkies. You can set the type in any breed by the third generation and they will breed true. That's why Mars DNA testing will only go back three generations, because it really doesn't matter what is in a breed before that as long as it has been bred back to it own kind for three generations. I've been breeding merles for years in my Toy Doxies. You only run into trouble if you cross the merle with another merle that has to much white on it, like a full while collar, white splashed chest, white boots, sometimes even the smallest spot on the chest is enough to cause the puppies to be born with a lot of white and they will be deaf, Ones with blue eyes could have smaller eye globes and off set pupils or worst, on eyes at all. I've done merle to merle with no white markings anywhere and the puppies are just like any other puppy that is born normal, not one thing wrong with them. But it's a gene that the novice breeder should be aware of before they get involved with breeding the merle gene. But now a days I always go with the merle to black and tan so I get a little of many colors. My main stud carries for just about every color out there and it is very interesting to see new variation of colors being born with each breeding. Being retired now, I all the time in the world to devote to my little one, and couldn't think of one thing better I would like to be doing with the rest of my life. The merle Yorkie will catch on sooner or later, and when it does, it will be like a run away train you can't stop, no more than you could stop it in Great Dane, Boxer, Doxie, Cocker, Poms, Min Pins, Pits, Chihuahuas, and now Yorkies to just name a few. You name it's going to come in merle someday. The dog is whatever man wants it to be, after all, all breeds were created by man. Merle dogs are simply stunning to look at, and people become hooked on a look when it comes to the dogs they buy. My hat's off to the breeders that have the nerve to take that giant step forward, along with all the bad mouths out there, and go develop their hearts desire. Wait until I develop the merle Mi-Ki and my own lines of merle Yorkies, man are the tongues going to be flapping. Oh by the way have you checked out the beautiful chocolate merle Great Danes on Kiss My Cocoa.com????... Absolutely gorgeous!

Chase at 13 weeks for dachshund talk_.jpg

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4268565)

Yes Lynzy it is her, she has ads all over the internet; infact, you can see her bio right here... You posted the above at 10:59 and she logged off at 11:01....anyway, since we are already in breeder area, please feel free to view this breeder who one day may be breeding Merle Yorkies: ya know, perpetuating the breed....ugggghhhhhh

Miniature Dachshund Puppies for Sale: Hybrids

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4268590)

Lordy!! The SUPER SLUTHS OF YT strike again!!!! If you have ANYTHING to hide, or you are regurgitating untruths, you had better not show up HERE.......YOU WILL GET CAUGHT and your true agenda will be laid out for all to see!!!!

Originally Posted by McheleM (Post 4268804)

This is why I had to change my name (3 times) and get one of those sex change operations.... I had to throw the YT sleuths off my trail. But now that I admitted to changing my name and the operation, I will most likely have to move to another country.

I know who I want to go stay with!!!!

Originally Posted by McheleM (Post 4268804)

This is why I had to change my name (3 times) and get one of those sex change operations.... I had to throw the YT sleuths off my trail. But now that I admitted to changing my name and the operation, I will most likely have to move to another country.

I know who I want to go stay with!!!!

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4268842)

When ya coming??? I do live right near the falls.....its nice and cool and misty...can't guarantee you won't see any jumpers but it sure is pretty!!! I use to....

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4268433)

The merle trait in "Yorkies" (as far as I'm concerned, a Merle "Yorkie" is no longer a Yorkshire Terrier) was bred in from some other breed of dog. The lady who said that so long as you breed it into Yorkshire Terriers for at least 3 generations, it can't be detected by a MARS test and doesn't matter any more, is saying something highly irresponsible. Those "Yorkies" are no longer purebred and certainly don't comply to breed standards and they are NOT Yorkshire Terriers. Hellooooo!!! Don't get me started, now!

About the health problems, even single Merles (one copy of the Merle gene) are more susceptible to deafness and blindness than normal dogs, and a double Merle (two copies of the Merle gene) is asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by mimimomo (Post 4269277)

:thumbup: Wow, are we lucky to have a real live geneticist in our forum!

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4269331)

Yes we are and it is thanks to him that so many of us come to understand the technical side of what we are "preaching"...the fact behind the matter, if you will...he is exceptionally good at explaining it for us and the tremendous value of his posts for all to see is priceless! We are more than lucky!

Originally Posted by tricia208 (Post 4269670)

A geneticist with University of Texas informed me of some interesting genetic facts about the Yorkie. One comment really caught my attention -- In comparison to all other AKC recognized breeds the Yorkshire terrier has the greatest amount of variant genetic material. I believe it is the white Boxer that has the least amount of variant genetic material but we will leave that to the Boxer Talk Forum to discuss. The full list of dogs was made up of all AKC recognized breeds. So the Boxer is No. 1 on the list and the Yorkie is the very last breed. (Disclaimer: the list will change over time with new developments in science and more research. This information was told to me and current in ~October 2012.)

I understood this to mean in a large group of genetically tested Yorkshire terriers -- less than 70% of the genetic make up would match the other Yorkies tested. Variant genetic material consists mostly of the traits breeders do not want in a Yorkie.

Is it true that the Yorkshire terrier has the greatest amount of variant genetic material compared to all other AKC recognized breeds?
Did I understand the meaning of variant genetic material?

Unfortunately, I have business degree and not a science degree. The science side of my brain does not work as well as the business side. Fortunately, I have friends that are vet professors and geneticists that will spoon feed and translate information for me. With that said, I learned the hard way that purchasing, owning and breeding dogs requires some level of study in genetics. While I believed that I did my homework, research and due diligence I have two dogs with health issues, one being very serious.

If this information is true that would be another reason that Yorkshire terrier breeders have a greater responsibility to breed to the standard since the goal should be to lower the percentage of variant genetic material.

Thanks you to all of you that share information to improve the health and quality of this breed in a respectful, informative manner.

Originally Posted by tricia208 (Post 4269670)

A geneticist with University of Texas informed me of some interesting genetic facts about the Yorkie. One comment really caught my attention -- In comparison to all other AKC recognized breeds the Yorkshire terrier has the greatest amount of variant genetic material. I believe it is the white Boxer that has the least amount of variant genetic material but we will leave that to the Boxer Talk Forum to discuss. The full list of dogs was made up of all AKC recognized breeds. So the Boxer is No. 1 on the list and the Yorkie is the very last breed. (Disclaimer: the list will change over time with new developments in science and more research. This information was told to me and current in ~October 2012.)

I understood this to mean in a large group of genetically tested Yorkshire terriers -- less than 70% of the genetic make up would match the other Yorkies tested. Variant genetic material consists mostly of the traits breeders do not want in a Yorkie.

Is it true that the Yorkshire terrier has the greatest amount of variant genetic material compared to all other AKC recognized breeds?
Did I understand the meaning of variant genetic material?

Unfortunately, I have business degree and not a science degree. The science side of my brain does not work as well as the business side. Fortunately, I have friends that are vet professors and geneticists that will spoon feed and translate information for me. With that said, I learned the hard way that purchasing, owning and breeding dogs requires some level of study in genetics. While I believed that I did my homework, research and due diligence I have two dogs with health issues, one being very serious.

If this information is true that would be another reason that Yorkshire terrier breeders have a greater responsibility to breed to the standard since the goal should be to lower the percentage of variant genetic material.

Thanks you to all of you that share information to improve the health and quality of this breed in a respectful, informative manner.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4269683)

Wow, that sounds interesting! If you could provide a link to the research article or website describing this research, I'd be happy to look it over and try to help interpret it.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4269683)

Wow, that sounds interesting! If you could provide a link to the research article or website describing this research, I'd be happy to look it over and try to help interpret it.

Originally Posted by tricia208 (Post 4269720)

I found his name and contact information. I just sent him an email requesting the name of the article, study or reference to this information. I don't want to post his information on a public forum. If I do not hear back in short order I will PM his information to you. He may respond faster to a peer.

Glad to see there is an interest in this subject. Knowledge leads to better breeding and happier, healthier dogs.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4269695)

Oh, I'm glad you are logged in and saw this. Thank goodness you are here to help us along with this. It's really going to provoke a great deal of interest and controversy in the Yorkie community if it is true and I'm understanding the issues it raises for Yorkie breeders, assuming this great amount of genetic variant material is as ultimately bad for the health of the breed as it seems it could be, knowing the little I know.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4269743)

Very much interested in this answer, and to the whole article per say.

I would not assume the genetic variant is bad, but au contraire might actually be good for the overall health of the breed/

Merle to Merle breeding in ANY Breed is bad news, and has been known to be so for many years 15 or more.

What breeders still don't get, is please do the genetic testing that is Available for your breed. This testing can be done at days old, usually through a cheek swab.

For Yorkies Pra gene, Hyperuriscosuria, and Color Dilution Alopecia genetic tests.

If you breed clear to clear it is my understanding you will not have a carrier nor a dog affected with these diseases.

And the more genetic tests we have the better. For breeders can find out very early on, if any of their very young pups should be kept for breeding.

Originally Posted by tricia208 (Post 4269720)

I found his name and contact information. I just sent him an email requesting the name of the article, study or reference to this information. I don't want to post his information on a public forum. If I do not hear back in short order I will PM his information to you. He may respond faster to a peer.

Glad to see there is an interest in this subject. Knowledge leads to better breeding and happier, healthier dogs.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4269743)

Very much interested in this answer, and to the whole article per say.

I would not assume the genetic variant is bad, but au contraire might actually be good for the overall health of the breed/

Merle to Merle breeding in ANY Breed is bad news, and has been known to be so for many years 15 or more.

What breeders still don't get, is please do the genetic testing that is Available for your breed. This testing can be done at days old, usually through a cheek swab.

For Yorkies Pra gene, Hyperuriscosuria, and Color Dilution Alopecia genetic tests.

If you breed clear to clear it is my understanding you will not have a carrier nor a dog affected with these diseases.

And the more genetic tests we have the better. For breeders can find out very early on, if any of their very young pups should be kept for breeding.