Are there any Breeders online?
 

2 of Autumn's babies are not thriving. They seemed to be doing ok but after I docked their tails yesterday they don't seem to be doing so well. Especially the little girl hubby calls Rosebud. The first boy was about 4 oz when he was born and Rosebud about 3 oz. Today they are a week old and the boy weighed about 3 oz and the girl about 2 oz. I know it is normal for a woman's baby to lose weight and then gain it back but is this normal for puppies? And is it normal to lose about an oz? I went out today and bought some supplemental milk and a bottle. The girl takes to it ok but the boy fights it. I tried letting the girl nurse on Lady but Lady won't be still, she wants to keep looking the baby over. I can't change the babies around, Lady's babies are so big that they'd crowd out whoever I put them with. Lady has lots of milk and Autumn seems to have enough. The other 2 of Autumn's puppies are doing great. They are over 6 oz and started out at a little over 4oz and about 41/2 oz. Is there anything else I can do for these 2 babies that I'm not already doing? Sylvia

sorry you are having trouble...I don't know but will bump your thread so a breeder might see it faster

bump...

if your little girl has lost 2 0Z if i read that correctly i would contact the vet asap. your doing the right thing by supplementing though, and i personally would continue to sup every 3 hrs. day and nite. just a little, dont try to force them, let them take as much as they want though. tube feeding is an option, but i cannot describe to you here how to do that because it is very tricky and you would need a vet or experienced breeder to show you first hand. i wouldnt want to be responsible for your baby if it wasnt done right, but i wanted you to know it's an option if your vet will show you. there is a product on revivalanimal.com that is called puppy drops. if you could get some you could also use those, i've had good results with smaller, less thriving pups with them. but you need them pretty fast and with having to have the drops shipped, i would suggest you contact the vet. keep them warm number one! take them out and stimulate them before and after feedings to get that little system and blood pumping. use a warmed towel/ baby blanket and your hands and rub them gently all along their body. keep supplementing them and every 3 hrs and call the vet. stimulate, supplement, allow to nurse in between as much as they want, keep warm but not hot...allow an area in the box for them to crawl off the heat if they get too hot...usually by putting the heat pad on under one half of the box...poop and pee them in between feedings just in case mom isnt getting it all, and i will keep you in my prayers. good luck to you and let us know....

Great advice! :thumbup: By 1 week of age, they should have doubled their weight at birth. What you're describing isn't a good sign. :( You can get goat's milk (mixed with a little nutrical) to also suplement with. I'd feed every 2 hours...just as much as they'll eat. Like Robbie said, keep them warm. The tube feeding by a vet...scares me. I've heard of too many babies afixiating (spelling) on the tubes and dying. Contact your vet, never-the-less.

i'd also like to add that i dont know the exact date they were born, but with 2-3 oz pups, it is better to wait a little beyond the normal time we would normally dock and dew claw remove...i had a 2.1 oz girl once that i waited until she was 7 days old to have her tail done as a safety measure and my vet said this was the right thing to do.. again, good luck with those babes and they're in my prayers...

pups
 

It does not hurt the tinies to wait on tail docking..I like mine to be at least 6 oz..before tail docking.
Why not allow the mom with older pups to nurse them a few times a day until they start gaining again? You can remove use your hands to make a space for them to nurse, keeping the biggers ones away.....or let mom out to potty and put her pups in another room for a few minutes and let her nurse the ones you are concerned about..good luck

I Used to supplement.....if I do now it is very minimal..........just at the beginning.....little sugar water & a bit of milk supplement, feed it to them upright, never tip their baby heads back.
If they do not perk up or greatly improve in a few hours, let nature take its course. Dont keep trying to bring them out of it if they dont improve.
My experience is this...........you only prolong thier life and misery. They are not healthy and should be left alone. Been there done that if that helps.

that's also a a great idea...i would personally take the older pups out of the other mom's nursing area and put them somewhere else temporarily to let the little one's nurse off her, then put the other mom's pups back in with her. (take the other mom of the older pups out of nursing area for a little bit before putting her back with her brood to let her fill up a little more for them, just a thought.. my friend has done this several times and it is ok to do... keep a good watch on your surrogate mom for any signs of swelling in her teats or around them since you are putting a larger load on her.(eclampsia, ect.) dont let that scare you..it's perfectly safe to do and usually no problems arise.

i would have to say that if they don't greatly improve in a few hours do not give up so quickly. perk up is the best word here yet, lol. i wouldn't give up on them so soon if there are no other signs of stress and only weight loss. i've saved 5 different puppies in my time that lost down, gained back, lost down again...and i worked and worked with them and had vibrant babies, healthy, good weight in the end...
never give up unless your instincts tell you it's hopeless... or your vet.
sometimes mom herself will let you know by ignoring or carrying certain babies away from the rest...has happened to me and was a sure sign there was no hope.. keep us updated.

Are you not sure the Mom is nursing or is she just moving them around to clean them and such? It is not good that the pup has lost an ounce instead of doubling its weight in one week. If your two small ones will suckle from Mom, please give them personal time to do so. Maybe if Autumn is comfortable on your bed you could let her lay up there and nurse just the two small ones while you baby her quite a bit telling her what a good girl she is. They are quite rough with their babies and that is normal. Does she want to stimulate them to go to the bathroom? Please post an update....and I wish you a healthy litter...all of them.

Ok, #1. They are still nursing. The other two have about doubled weight.
#2. Mama is a little over 5# before breeding and daddy is 2 3/4#. In my mind it is possible that these two are just going to be small. Therefor I am giving them lots of leaway in their growth. It concerns me that they have lost weight. Hubby was out today and brought home a scale that measures ozs and grams. Now I can keep a really close eye on them.
#3. Autumn is very afraid that Lady will take her puppies, and vice versa but Autumn is the worst. This is Autumn's first litter and Lady's second. I am watching them closely. What I would like to do is take Lady's puppies and give them to Autumn and give Autumn's two little ones to Lady. The problem with that is that Lady's babies are almost a # each while Autumn's bigger ones are half their size and I worry that they will be pushed away because they are smaller. I thot that if the bigger puppies could stimulate more milk production from Autumn then the little ones would have to get more milk when they nurse.

Should I worry about how big the hole is in the nipple bottle. I can get air thru it but the babies seem to be having a hard time getting the milk out of the bottle. I know they need to suck vigourously but they seem to be sucking hard and not getting much for it. Sylvia

Thank you, everyone for responding so quickly. I forgot to say that in the other post. I appreciate any help that comes my way.

Robbie: I waited until they were 6 days to dock their tails. This particular little girl has rear dew claws that I missed and they are just going to have to wait now. I wasn't worried about her much before the docking because whenever I picked her up she felt strong. It's just after the docking that I really got worried. I am thinking possibly she's in shock still. Her brother is small but seems to be doing a slight bit better than Rosebud. There are no other signs of stress on the puppies that I can tell. I feel mom is not producing enough milk but the bigger two are doing great. Autumn is not moving the little ones away (I know a sign of them not being healthy). But she wants me with them and her constantly. She is driving me crazy. She doesn't want me on the computer even if I have her and the babies right beside me.

Pat: I think I am going to have to do that. Once Lady gets used to them she should settle down and let them nurse. Right now all she wants to do is look them over again and again.

Kelly: I can't say they have "perked up" yet but the boy does seem better. I hope it's not just wishful thinking. He doesn't like the bottle but Rosebud is taking to it well.

Julz: Autumn is a very distracted mother. Everything catches her attention. At first she wouldn't leave them for anything and now she will leap out of the box at every sound. If we try to hold her down so they can nurse she just gets frantic to see what they are doing. (nursing) I wouldn't say she's nervous but being so distracted I don't think nervous is very far behind. She has no problem cleaning them. I don't have to worry there.

Sylvia

I would suggest you talk to your vet and get instructions on tube feeding. Its possible they don't have a strong enough suckle to thrive. I would think if the dam has enough milk for 2 the other 2 should be able to at the very least maintain their weight.

To small a hole in the bottle they won't get milk, to large they will aspirate. The bottle should have a very slow drip if turned over. That's usually a good size hole.

There is a recipe for "liver water" that helps for weak pups too. Make sure they are warm enough as well. Cool pups won't thrive, they can't digest milk.

I hope they start to grow for you.

You are very serious with your litters...........
I am also very serious with the advice I give.......
Good Luck & Good Will!