this is what i was saying too. just someone that knows the signs of danger because knowing nothing really about a whelp i'd be really nervous going into it all alone. i hope you do find a breeder or a vet tech or someone with a bit of experience to help you out. i know it's going to be a rough and long night/day but you can get her through this! i wasn't trying to be a total jerk, i do wish you well and good through this process, but i also am not the type to pat you on your back and say you did something great and wonderful when you know that you didn't.

I see that you live in California, I don't know where in California, but in Ventura there is a spay/nueter clinic. The do spay on pregnant bitches. And their fee is very affordable. $45.00 for a spay.

That being said, your vet as late as yesterday still recommended a spay, please take an active participation in your girl's care. Ask questions. $900 for a spay is a bit steep, but the price of C-section in California is close to
$2,000.

Now, since you wish to carry on with this whelp, you need to begin to prepare yourself now.

Supplies you'll need:
Whelping box Should be big enough for her to lie down in, with sides high enough that the pups won't tumble out.
A scale
Nutri Cal
Clean, dry towels (preferably hand towels and wash clothes)
Sterile three-inchy gauze pads to dry inside pups' mouths
Alcohol to sterilize instruments and hands.
Betadine Skin Cleaner
Several hemostats (Kelly forceps-7") at least three straighty and one curved, to clamp umbilical cord if necessary
Iodine to apply to umbilical cord to aid in drying and kill germs
Sterile cotton balls, baby bottles and preemie nipples.
Tube feeding kit - No. 5 for toy feeding tube for toys.
Lactating ringers.
Cans of Goats Milk
Distilled Water.
Rectal termometer and KY Jelly
Room thermometer to monitor temp of whelping area which should be between 80 and 85 degrees reduce daily.
Syringes - 10
Pure glycerin
Eydroppers
Clotisol
Unwaxed dental floos
Silver Nitrate Sticks to stop bleeding at umbilical and when removing dew claws and tails
Nasal syringe (infants) to suction nose and mouth
Sterile surgical goves

Meds
Amoxicillin
Pet Nutri Drops
Terramycin Opthalmic
Oral Cal Plus

Pee pads
Plenty of bedding changes
Heating Lamp (desk lamp with a flexible neck) with 100 watt bulb....
These are a few things that you'll need

There is also a stickie at the beginning of this forum with 2 recipes.

I'll PM you my phone #

And with all of those supplies I would think the $45.00 spay would be worth it at this point.

OMgoodness just reading that list of supplies has made me go lightheaded.

Mary is very good at what she does and she is prepared...I appauld her..
I need:

A clamp..I do not tie cords..I crimp them..
whelping box and heating pad.
A few washclothes to dry the pups.
I keep a bottle, tubing and milk replacement in case...
Can't think of much else I need...

\Of course, you may call me...I have taken many 2AM calls...it helps to know if something is normal or time for the vet...or we both can bang our heads against the walls...

I know my husband always tells me I over prepare....and I'm just a freak....it would just one take time me needing something and I don't have it.

Yep! Spay is by far the less expensive route.

The list I provided is just a tip.....

I am not making light of your list...these things reflect our personalities...and being perpared is your way of doing it..mine is to keep it simple and improvise..I can survivied in a cave with a few sticks..LOL

Mary,
Were you a Girl Scout by chance? LOL. I'm an over preparer like you. Better to have it and not use it than need it and not have it.

Yes, but I've got other personality traits. Anal retentive, over organizer.

I know you weren't making fun of my list. But, this is a newbie and being over prepared is the best thing.....

Heck! I've cut down on my list.....although, have added other things as I've experienced different situations.

Hi everyone. Well, we got the x-ray's in and she's having two puppies that are pretty much the entire size of her body, so they're big. On top of that, it seems like one of the puppies skull has not formed, so the vet said with the abnormality in the most likely case it will die.

I think we'll have to end up getting a c-section, but what are you thoughts about if she is able to go through with a whelp? Looking at the x-rays I don't think its possible with her size. Out vet suggested we asked an experienced breeder how possible it is for her to whelp two puppies.

She advised against spaying at this point, we should let her go through with the pregnancy and save the one puppies life instead of giving them up at this point in the game.

It is much too late IMO to spay..see it through. Xrays do not always tell the entire story. Puppies can be in a bad position and not show well on the film.. I would not schedule a section..I, perfer to let them go to term and go into labor..then if she may need the vet...or she may free whelp. You are not sure of the exact day of breeding, so a scheduled section is risky...others may disagree.

I have had one oversized pup pop out with no trouble...and tiny mice size refuse to budge.
Best wishes...she is small with two large pups, odds are she will need a section to ensure live pups.

Well it's good that you are prepared in all ways for a C section. At this point listen to the vet.

You really seem to have no choice at this point.

:lol tears:lol tears:lol tears


As to the OP, I hope things turn out for the best! Best of luck!

"Hi everyone. Well, we got the x-ray's in and she's having two puppies that are pretty much the entire size of her body, so they're big. On top of that, it seems like one of the puppies skull has not formed, so the vet said with the abnormality in the most likely case it will die.

I think we'll have to end up getting a c-section, but what are you thoughts about if she is able to go through with a whelp? Looking at the x-rays I don't think its possible with her size. Out vet suggested we asked an experienced breeder how possible it is for her to whelp two puppies.

She advised against spaying at this point, we should let her go through with the pregnancy and save the one puppies life instead of giving them up at this point in the game. "
(Not sure why, but my reply with QUOTE is not working right tonight!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am shocked that a vet would suggest you ask an experienced breeder how possible it is for her to whelp two puppies. SHE is the vet, the one that examined the dog and xrays! What is up with that? Is she trying to pass off some responsibility here? That would fire me up! A vet that was going to ask you for $900 to spay your dog, wants you to check with breeders to see if your dog can whelp 2 puppies? Doesn't that sound a bit OFF to others?

I think I would be very quickly finding another vet to help you through the process. Ask for referrals for your area. You need a vet that can confidently tell you whether or not to approach regular delivery or schedule a C-section. I would want to go regular vaginal delivery if possible, but put the life of mom in priority. As much as this vet was going to charge for a spay, I can't imagine what she is going to charge for a C-section. You might be better off financially with another vet too. Personally, I would no longer trust her since she told you to check with other breeders to see if your dog could whelp the pups. We aren't even privy to the xrays! She should have enough confidence to make the call herself.

I am also skeptical about her saying the one dog's head is not fully formed. Xrays do not always show details -- could it be that it was just not showing all of the dog's head? We sometimes even have trouble counting pup, let alone seeing complete outlines of every feature. Seriously, I would think about a second opinion. I know $$ is tight for you, but it might save you money and lives in the long run. I would normally say, yes sell your pup & put the money towards the spay & neuter fees. But since you were recommended NOT to breed due to size and the luxating patella, I think giving away the pups might be the best way to go. Normally you would give a health guarantee that would include LP and that could cost you $$ in vet fees or at least the refund of purchase price towards vet fees. (Since I hope you are going to spay & neuter, replacement pup would not be in the picture). So -- better to just go ahead and give the pup away and not have to worry about holding the money in escrow for vet fees. Just make sure you still disclose about the luxating patella so they can test for it and be more aware.

Happy New Year -- I took a short break to celebrate the midnight moment & this is my first post of the new year! :)

Not much of this story has made sense, so this is just one more thing. Perhaps the vet recommended the C/S, but the OP wants other opinions, just as the vet recommended against breeding, but it was allowed to happen any way. IDK.

A question for the breeders: Can a vet do a spay at the same time as a C/S to prevent anymore 'oops' litters?

This is a very expensive lesson, not just monetarily, but a pup will likely be born dead and the OP could possibly end up with a second dead pup and bitch. Sad.

Just wanted to let everyone know that she had her baby yesterday on new years eve. We had to preform a c-section, but shes doing really well and so is her puppy. The other one inside of her according to the vet had probably been dead for some time inside of her. The puppy is nursing really well and Panini is being a great mother.

As for the spaying, he spayed her for us after removing the puppies without charge.

Congrats on the healthy pup!!! Glad the mom is doing good too. :):thumbup:

Sorry for the loss of the one pup. That's always sad. I'm glad that everyone else is doing well though.

That was very nice of your vet.

Thanks for updating us! Post pics when you can! Love pics! :D:thumbup:

Wow, you've got a nice vet! That is good cuz then she doesn't have to go under twice...That sounds great!! Always good to hear good news! :)

Congratz on the new pups and mommy's safety! How many pups did she have?

Good luck with the baby and the mom. I was surprised that she had her puppy bc her estimated due date was the 12th. So much for due dates. So how did it go? Did you let her try to have the puppy before the surgery? You all are so lucky with that dead pup in there that you were able to save the other puppy. How are you keeping the puppy warm? How big was the puppy? Man, you have a lucky puppy born on New Years Eve. Really nice.

That is a bit harsh, how do you know what their situation is? Maybe when they got the dogs they could afford them and like alot of other people in these economic times got laid off. Just because they do not have the money to have their dog spayed does not mean they don't love their animals. Instead of acting high and mighty, maybe you could provide another suggestion. I do not have my females spayed (not because of finances, but by choice)and I have a male that goes to my mothers house when one of my females is in heat.

There are low cost spay/neuter clinics in every county. All one has to do is put in the effort to find them.

I am glad to hear that the ordeal is overwith. Now is the time to sit back, relax and enjoy that precious little one. I'd love to see pics.