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Hi there

I am hoping for some good, honest advice. I am still in my research stages and I have found myself a great mentor. The breeder who bred my 2 dogs will be assisting me when I am ready. Not only that but I will be assisting her with her next whelp to help me get a better understanding of what could go right and wrong in a whelp.

My female is almost due for her next heat. She will be going to see the vet for a pelvic xray to determine how well she will be able to whelp as well as tests for diseases etc.

I grew up on a farm often assisting in various births but yet this breed is a huge challenge as we all know. And I am not willing to put my female in danger.

She weighs about 2.5kgs or 5.5lbs and my male is slightly larger at about 3kgs or 6lbs. They are due for a final weigh in this weekend. My primary concern is that he will produce large puppies - too big for her to free whelp. She comes from a line of females who have had no problems at all giving birth. His lines are much the same and his mother had clean whelps.

His father was small and his mom was larger (within the standard) because the breeder prefers a larger, stronger female to produce strong pups. I bought him specifically based on his weight but as we all know you can never guess their adult weight! my famle is a smaller framed girl whereas he is much stronger and thicker set. Size wise they look the same, he just weighs more because of his build and his appetite! but she has put on nice weight and filled out to my liking and he has slimmed down and is as fit as a fiddle.

My breeder told me that the size of the male is not necessarily a deciding factor in breeding. He might produce small puppies. I just want another opinion. What are the important things to look for in his lines? I have good access to this information so if I know what im looking for it will help.

I have access to another male smaller than my female but I dont know his lines or history so im not happy about that.

I know I am a first time breeder, often stepping on older breeders toes, but I would appreciate some advice before making any decisions so that I know in my heart and mind that I am doing things right - if not then i dont ever do it.

It is not just the male's size, but his line's sizes. Since you already said that "His father was small and his mom was larger (within the standard) " and "She comes from a line of females who have had no problems at all giving birth. His lines are much the same and his mother had clean whelps. " -- things are looking good so far. Now look to the litters that his mother and father produced. Were most of them within standard as adults? That is an important thing when looking specifically at size. His size is not that much larger than your girl. So, I do not see a danger to health if other puppies in litters produced by his parents (and maybe even look at grandparents) were not over standard as adults or overly large at birth. It is fine for them to wind up like him @ 6 pounds as an adult. The fact that the mother and father were responsible for all clean, healthy whelps says they are not throwing huge puppies that could endanger the mom. So you are probably safe on size. Just ask the breeder specifically about other puppies sizes from the mom & father of both your dam and sire. That will give you a good idea.

I won't go in to anything else as you only asked about size. I do want to congratulate you on going about this the right way -- research, research, mentoring, and investigation! Then testing, evaluation, and more mentoring! Always learning! Always on the lookout for more input!

He was the smallest male puppy from his litter but not the smallest puppy overall (he was one of 7!!!!!!) but they were all within the standard. Then again, we thought he would be small and grew - like I say, we can never guess their adult size!

My breeder and I keep in close contact and I like that because I think it's important for her to see how her pups grow up as well and that they are well cared for etc. and her input is fantastic. And his parents and Gandparents are all owned by her still.

One thing I must say about my male is that he is strong and probably the most healthy dog I have ever owned! he doesnt ever get tear stains, has never had to visit the vet except for his innoculations and has a personality worth spreading!

My female had a rough start in life but only because her breeder (the mother in law of the lady that bred my male) was irresponsible and let her leave her mother at 6 weeks because she was immigrating overseas:( back then I had no idea of the risk involved in that and I nearly lost her the first night I had her due to her stress levels and a very high white blood cell count. She spen her first night with me in emergency on a drip but is a little bullet now! one mistake I will never make as a breeder. My pups stay with me until 10 - 12 weeks no matter what!

Thank you for your input I really appreciate it - I dont want to do anything stupid and put them in danger. Im happier knowing that i can research his lines more thoroughly now. I have been researching this since the day she came into my life and she is the most important thing to me.

Yep, as previously stated, the size of the dam and sire alone mean little. You have to take into account the size of the other dogs in their lines as well.

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Kudos to you. Sadly, that seems like a rarity these days. :(

You've done your homework. Keep in mind that the dam controls the size of the pup while in utero. And what happens after the whelp is a somewhat of a crap shoot......

Mom was tall, the old man was not. Brother at 6'5", Steve is not. So I blame it on Mom!

Mom was small so am I.....all my 6 other sisters are above 5'7" and each outweigh me at about 20 pounds at the minimum, big girls. My brother's range from 5'7" to 6'4". It's all in how those genetics shake out.

""""My brother's range from 5'7" to 6'4". It's all in how those genetics shake out""""

I hear you and know first hand! When he was 2 and I was 5, he was taller! LOL I call him Lurch.

I always say 12 weeks old AND at least 2 pounds. I had to keep a few longer as my pups were small and I wanted at least 2 pounds going out the door so they would be healthy and not quite as fragile. One little man went less than 2 pounds but he was 16 weeks old -- just tiny. He went to a seasoned yorkie owner though. Some said I was looking for excuses for keeping them longer. I really bonded with my pups and wished I wanted to keep them all!

Although, It is recommended that pups are kept until a minimum of 12 weeks of age. There are so many other factors that come into play. One is as you say the weight of the pup, how well they are eating on their own, etc. But, if one is now keeping the new Bile Acid protocol in mind, the timeline would be 16 weeks.

I guess I have to revise that since BAT is given at 16 weeks and 6 months. I never gave the puppies BAT before they went to new homes before. I want to stay current on information, just in case I get to the point where I want to breed again some day. I already miss puppies everytime I see a litter posted on here! But then I look at Annie, and ask myself: Could I really risk losing her. I don't think so....

Thanks for all your input :) I definitely want to do this right if I do it because just like everyone feels, I would never want to put my dam at risk. I looked at her last night and just said to my fiance that im nervous to put her in danger. Her vet visit is coming up soon (probably next week) for her pelvic xray and health tests which will also help me make a decision.

I knnow she is going to be a great mommy though - parting with the pups will be MY biggest challenge! I think my poor fiance already fears we will end up keeping one ;)

I want to put contracts into place with the new owners when the time comes - is there anywhere I could get a template from to base mine on? My pups will be registered with KUSA which is the South African registery and Im putting breeding restrictions on them all regardless. Simply because I know how much work I have had to do getting to this point...and so many people just breed for the money. The lady that owns my females sister from the same litter wants to breed her and im trying desperately to talk her out of it because she has done NO research and thinks it's a simple matter of letting them mate, popping out some puppies and making some money. I expect to come out in a negative balance! Which I am also prepared for - my dogs have their own bank account ;) in the long run it's all about the love of the breed for me!

There are plenty templates out there for contracts. However, your best bet is to develop one with a laywer. Once that protects the pup first and equally covers the best interest of the seller and buyer. It should be in keeping with the laws of your local. Cover all the basis, but the pup is number one.
There are so many contracts out there, that aren't worth the paper they are written on. But, also keep in mind that a contract is only as good as the two people signing it. In other words if you don't trust a person, then you shouldn't be placing a pup with them. And if they don't trust you they shouldn't be buying a pup from you. My mentor and I have never had a contract between us.....It's always been a smile and a kiss on the cheek. But, we trust each other implicitly.

Mary, are you putting a Recruit Platoon of Marines thru Basic? Reason I ask is, you seem to get up before the Roosters.

When you have pups....they rule the roost. When they gotta go, they gotta go. Rise and shine at 05:00 a.m. Breakfast at 07:00. These little guys have an internal clock, their needs come first, the heck with mom needing sleep.