can i get some breeder views?
 

i have always strayed away from breeding small...which i thought the ones i have at 6-7lbs were small..=)

i have a female purchased for breeding AKC, very nice looking parents very nice looking female.

she had the broken leg back this summer..she is healed and at 6 months i assume she is too small for breeding.

the vet said 2 months ago she is 4lbs..i said where?? legs and ears???

she is very tiny framed..but im wondering if the size of breeding is 5lbs+ and say her small frame makes it to 5- 5.5lbs, am i taking to big of a risk to breed her? even if i found a male smaller then her? i know there are risk any time..but im looking for experience with female at the 5lbs mark.

is it possible to "fatten" her up..lol she has long legs small waist and large ears, button nose..just adorable..ill be disappointed if she is not breed-able but i have already accepted the fact she isnt and she will remain our little feet warmer :D

the other thing that worries me is her mother had a c - section with her litter but not with previous litters.

i also plan to visit the vet and speak to him on all the above..but looking for other "views" from experience

Thanks
43aa04ce-1a91-4a77-98c8-f25e0ed806f9
1.03.01

Pounds is not the deciding factor here. Structure is. Fattening her up will not fix her if her reporductive area cannot pass a pup or if she is too small to carry a litter of more than one. And we have no control over how many she'll concieve. A ultra sound and a reproductive vet measuring her along with the guiding hand of an experienced breeder/mentor would be your best bet.

thank you i thought of that too..her not having enough room to support a pup/pups
43aa04ce-1a91-4a77-98c8-f25e0ed806f9
1.03.01

Sassy was 5 lbs and I had my first yorkie at 3
5lbs and they did fine it all depends on their size of hips like a women, The head has to be able to pass through. If not it will be a c-section. So ask the vet what he thinks.

Using a smaller male does not matter. You have to know what behind both.

What is her body structure like? Is she tall, long and just skinny? How old is she? If she is close to 5 pounds and young she could fill out some. If she is close to 2 and 4 pounds I would not risk it.

thanks

i know my male has a very small line..but he is 6.5lbs but i think 2lbsis FUR..lol he has the thick heavy coat..his siblings were 3.5lbs his parents were 4 and 5lbs

the female father is 2-3lbs and her mother is 5lbs

well 2 months ago she was 4lbs..tall, long and skinny..i need her weighed again..ill try and do that soon
43aa04ce-1a91-4a77-98c8-f25e0ed806f9
1.03.01

My girl is 5 pounds, free whelped a litter of 2 & her mother has free whelped. My sire's father has thrown small pups. My girl has skinny and short legs. Her body is skinny too.

Do you know the reason your girl's mother had to have a c-section? Do you know if what size pups both breeding pairs parents have had?

Dont know how old your girl is, but if she's still young, she may have some more growing to do. My girl had a growth spurt when she was over a year old...you just never know.

Like stated before in order for her to free whelp alot goes into the breeding:
Size of parents, grandparents on both sides.
Why did her mom need a section? Sometimes it is one reason but then the next time them free whelp.
The dogs frame especially in the pelvic region.

I do have a question for you though, you say she has long legs, tiny framed, and big ears yet you say you want to breed her? I am not trying to be mean, I just know the description does not sound very appealing but maybe she is gorgeous... ;)

I would say medically ask your vet to xray her hips and tell you what he/she thinks first and foremost. Then evaluate her as breeding stock, does she fit the standard closely? Is she in great health? Are you prepared for a c-section and/or possibly losing her? Is the male you have a pretty close to perfect representation of the breed? Do they complement each other fault wise? There is so much to mating 2 dogs...Have you done that research? Pedigrees?

LOL shes not goofy looking i promise ..you can see her face in my avatar and i have another one of her in there somewhere..i just tease her about her ears..she has grown into them =)

i believe but not certain ( i need to contact the breeder again) it was a precaution c section...i think she got nervous ( I might be remembering it wrong) and had the c section done...i know she has bred for a very long time and is knowledgeable

i plan on speaking to the vet when she is a year old

LOL I was picturing this goofy looking yorkie for sure and with what I call dumbo ears and long giraffe legs...and I have seen a BYB breeding exactly that!!

nah..lol shes purty

She is only 6 months old? did I read that right?
Also are you planning on doing pre-breeding tests this time?

Since she is only 6 months old it is too early to tell how big she will be. Weighing in at 4 pounds when she was 4 months old is not really small. In fact it puts her off the weight chart (Yorkshire Terrier - Yorkie Puppy Growth/Weight Chart - watch us grow) and gives a guesstimate of well over 6 pounds as adult. If you did not want to breed dogs that are 6-7 lbs because you thught they were too small, how large of female Yorkies were you breeding? You should breed females between 5-7 pounds. Of course bottom line is still a vet check for bone structure, and TESTING. You mentioned not doing that in another thread. I want to encourage you to change your mind. It is really not that expensive. You can get everything you need for probably less than the price of one puppy and then you are doing right by your girl. In addition to the vet check, getting a seasoned expert that shows yorkies to evaluate both dam and sire for conformation is the thing to do. They all look so cute in our eyes and sometimes it takes an unbiased person to really decide if the dog is breeding material. See what the litters have been like in the past 2 generations. What kind of problems have been incurred during delivery? What sorts of health problems have pups shown?

Others have already explained, you can't fatten them up to make weight, but I am guessing that weight is not going to be a problem for you. The mother having a C-section after a few unassisted whelps, is probably not a problem, but best to get the details from the breeder.

Your girl has a cute face in your profile pic. You might want to get some good pics of your dogs stacked and post them for the pros to look at. They will give you some good advice. Even at 6 months they can sometimes tell potential, better at a year though. You won't want to breed her until she has at least her second heat -- usually 18-24 months -- anyway. So you have time for evaluations.

bella is a petite female..she may be 5lbs but her structure is very tiny..long thin legs i think she stopped growing =) could be wrong..but i havent seen much change since 4 months but could be because i see her every day
one person advised placing two finger to see how wide her pelvis is and i cant fit 2 fingers..so i am doubting she is breedable..she a sweet baby...i almost think the scale was wrong when the weighed her then..because i didnt see 4lbs i saw about 2.5-3lbs..

one female is 6.5lbs and she is tiny too me as well and the whelping looks stressful..her last one (her third one) was much better..but she is getting fixed when the babies go to their new homes

my other female is 8-9lbs a bit out of standard but has the easiest whelps..they come out quickly and safely

i know you have spoken to me on the other post and stressed some concerns...i have decided NOT to go back there because i do get upset over it.

thank you for your time and info

i have reread your post and wanted to thank you for being so kind.
im a bit raw from the last one and this one from you was nice and really full of good info and suggestions..im little emotional..sorry

i really would like to work on putting more into it..and maybe im some peoples views i should not do it at all until i have all the test and so forth..i actually would like to have them tested whem breed my AKC pair..i believe his parents were and i would like to track that info back down
the female i dont think she has any testing in her back ground..i WILL speak to my vet in the future for pricing and info..i have the best vet..couldnt ask for better.

so you test the parents and then you dont have to test their line if they are "clear" to breed? do the puppies need to be tested before they leave?

i will try n get some pics of bella...her hair is cut short and a ittle funky =) from when her leg was broken...another reason im thinking she shouldnt be bred??? she is 100% healed but i wouldnt want to add any stress to it...not sure if that is an issue or not..i had planned on asking the vet when i take her in at 12 month for his evaluation. im very proud of her...she is such a pretty girl


"fattening" up her is wishful thinking =) she is so hyper she would just run it off..

the male that i have now has been producing NICE pups..occasionally i will have the larger size like the mama..but the ones like him are beautiful they all are but the ones like mama are just thicker..the weights vary from 4.5-8.5lbs...he was bred with another pretty female that is 6lbs very stunning little girl i only got to see puppy pics but they were some NICE looking pups..they were a nice match

i was hoping to bred him to bella because they make a good match for each other..but she is skinnier then him same height tho

some pics
 

This is bella now

she wouldnt put her tail or ears up for the camera
and her face is dirty from dinner..please excuse

avatar pic was last week right after her bath

Sorry to take so long to reply. I was out of town for the weekend and it turned into a long weekend as I stayed over another day to take my son to the doc. He is a football player at college and was injured AGAIN in Saturday game (separated shoulder) but he will be okay.

Bella is quite a cutie but in all honesty, I would probably be thinking of keeping her for a pet. Please do not take this as criticism, but she may not be the best choice for breeding. I know that is hard to hear when we are so proud of our pups. My first female was not breeding material either so I reluctantly had her spayed. I knew it wsa the best thing for the breed even though I really wanted puppies.

Bella's coloring is already so very light (especially for only 6 months old!) and not defined well where blue and tan meet. Females will especially lighten when bred and as they age. You want some good strong color in a young female. Here is the standard: "Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply: Blue: Is a dark steel-blue, not a silver-blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs. Tan: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan."

I think she is also going to be over the weight standard and I really believe in the female weighing between 5-7 pounds to breed. If you think her petite structure is going to wind up giving her too narrow of birth canal, that would just be another reason not to breed. The broken leg would probably not be a problem, but that is a question for the vet. I cannot tell enough from the picture, but her proportions look good to me, they should be sort of square, as tall as long, same height at rump and shoulders. Her top line should be nice and straight. Second pic it appears to be, that is good. Can't tell about ear size as she has a lot of hair on them. Nice to trim the ear hair off the top third of the ear triangle (tipping the ear). First time a groomer asked if I wanted that done, I said NO! I thought she meant to actually cut part of the ear. LOL! There are so many things to check. Best to copy off the Yorkie Standard from the YTCA.org site and go down the list. You want her to be as close to each standard as possible. Some small things can be balanced by picking a complimentary mate. For instance, my male Ben, had large ears (he did wind up growing into them but they were still a little large) but my female had nice small ears. That worked -- pups had nice ears. Ben had shorter legs than shows like, Sadie was "up on the leg" as some say with the longer legged of the breed. Neither was really way out of whack but they complimented each other well. Some things you just don't want to pass along at all.

Not breeding her is just an amateur recommendation based on the color, unknown history, and potential size. You could get other recommendations -- I have not shown and had to get my own looked at, so I m not trying to say my word is gold, but I did try to study up. (Don't go by my avatar pics, those were during their awkward early puppy stages. Cute, but hard to see the standard. ) I am hoping some experienced breeders might see this thread and comment. You could post the pics in a new thread titled Please Evaluate for Breeding or something like that if no one else comments here.

As far as testing, you usually don't have the luxury to go back and test the grandparents after the fact. That is something to ask when you buy your pups. But if you can ask the breeder you got her from if they did test and what, that would be good to know info. Even more importantly, ask about other litters. Have any of the pups wound up showing genetic problems? Liver shunt, hip/knee problems, eye problems, etc.... You do not have to test the puppies other than the normal vet check. He should make sure to be extra thorough checking their joints. You want them nice and tight as pups. Even then luxating patella might not show for a while. Most of the other tests need to be done as they get a little older so it will be the new owner's responsibility to test, and yours to guarantee. In other words, you should cover that in your health guarantee portion of the sales contract. Some tests are more complicated and have to get outside certification, like CERF(eyes) and OFA (joints).

Tammy; about health tests, she is at the age where she should be BAT tested whether you plan on breeding her or not. Knowing if her liver function is normal, is very important to help provide the best opportunity for a long healthy life.

In terms of evaluating for breeding potential, you could look up shows in your area, and take her there, to be evaluated by breeders at the show.

Also some shows will have health clinics, where a lot of the tests can be done, pretty reasonably. CERF, OFA etc.

In your pictures I too see a very light silver color, and not at all what the standard calls for.

One of the other things you can do, is examine pictures, and videos of past show Yorkies, and see their color, movement and somewhat their structure.

Structure is certainly key when considering if a female is a good candidate for breeding. I have a female that I'd originally held back. She ended up being a bit on the larger side, at around 8 lbs. Her pelvic structure is so small, even if her size wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even breed her.

Others have brought up valid points as well in regards to health test and how she conforms to the standard.

Thank you soooo much!!

no worries on the delay..im glad to hear your son will be ok...

she is a cutie..i didnt realize her coloring was too light..i assumed it was the typical blue n gold..thank you.. that makes much sense on the lightening females after whelping because my older female was black and now she has a lot of creamy cray running through her back.

at this time i cant see her being over the standard weight...i need to find a way to show in the pic what her size is..im going to hunt for my scale this weekend....i got to know what she weights now..lol

i do worry about her having to small a birth canal..but im trying to see if she does any more filling out before i spay..but then again if i breed to standard her coloring is an issue

on the testing i plan on doing more research and talking to my vet i am interested in it.

i know that my vet does check joints whenever we are there..he has a yorkie and seems to be very knowledge in this breed

Thanks again..i really appreciate your post.

Thank you...are the show breeders approachable??

thats really interesting that they have clinics at the shows for testing...

thank you for the heads up on the coloring

so even though she was a larger size her pelvis was still to petite? thanks thats interesting..i will really like to take her to the vet when she has reached a year or more and see what he thinks of her pelvis..one person advised having her pelvis xrayed..i think i will do that unless he can tell from looking at her that she is too tiny in the frame..

thanks for that!

Yep, very narrow...too narrow for my comfort level. She doesn't complain though. I still have her and she's fabulously spoiled. :p