Opinions please
 

I have found a wonderful, ethical breeder. I want a female PET. The parents will be both champions and the charge is from $3000.00 and up depending on the pup. Am I crazy to spend that much money if I am not going to breed or show this puppy? I have not won the lottery but I have set aside the money. I know you choose the breeder first then the pup and this breeder appears to be tops. Your honest responses would be appreciated.

Okay there is a lot more to know before, offering an opinion. For example what is the health guarantee offered. You say the parents "will both be champions" does that mean they are not yet champions?

Is she being sold on a spay and neuter contract? What are the health tests that have been done on the breeding pair? What are the health concerns in this line?

Will this breeder be there for you over the life of your pup? Have you met the parents, seen their temperament.

For me if I were to layout $3K for a pet female, I would want to be assured that this is an "excellent" representative of the breed. All and I do mean all pre breeding tests have been done, this includes BATS, OFA for hips, knees, CERF, and heart. That there are no major health issues in this breeding line.

This is a pretty hefty price tag for a pet female. This price is coming up close to the cost of a show dog.

Please make sure that you know all of the above, and are really, really comfortable with this breeder. Also you should check out their references.

Are they a member of the YTCA? Have you googled and searched out this breeders reputation on the net?

The breeder is toybox yorkie. The mother is in the e yorkshire magazine "Royal Tea"

This is a link to her web site
Home

I wouldnt spend that much money on a "parents will be champion" pup. As of yet, they dont have their championships so to charge that kind of money is insane. They have over 20 dogs :confused: thats a whole lot of dogs.

I think you should go in person and check them out.

It depends if you want the puppy. I've never heard anything bad about this breeder. I know she's been showing her own dogs for awhile.

What's it worth? Is this what you are asking? Only you can answer this. What's the value to you? I know what other people charge. Prices are down. You must have concern to question it. Is it your favorite line? You buy your breeder. I feel you make a list of your favorite lines, then the hunt begins. You should seek your dream dog. If you have to question the value it's too much. When it's fair, you know it is.

This isn't negative about that breeder. Get your dream dog. It's expensive, you aren't rich it has to be done wisely. You know what to do.

Did she say that both parents will be finished? She is a YTCA member.

I think it is a little higher than most when it appears from the site, the dam has not been shown. Not sure of sire as I did not see you list him. The parents of the dam however, are both Champions. But, if she has an excellent reputation in the show/breeding circles and you really want that puppy, and can afford it, I'd say follow your heart. I paid $1500 for Annie, they discounted to me as a previous customer. She is really an excellent looking puppy. Too soon to tell if she might be show quality but she has the right stuff now. :) I wanted a PET too. Her parents are not Champions (as she no longer shows) although they appear to be in standards. Quality was important because I want to support those trying to breed to standard and enjoy the regulation yorkie traits. I also wanted to know that the breeder followed good breeding practices and that is worth quite a lot! The purchase price is really not that big of a matter when you look at the lifetime of a dog. You will spend way more than that on vet bills, care, feeding, clothing, toys, carriers, play yards, beds, and all the other things we "must" have for these precious little ones.

I guess I would ask myself, is there another puppy that I want as much for a lot less? If not, then I would probably make the plunge. If you have to wait around for a year or two to find another of the same quality to save a few hundred dollars, is the wait worth it? Just make sure you get a really good health guarantee and a commitment for life-long mentoring on raising your little girl. Meet the breeder in person, watch her with her dogs. You get a feel pretty quick for the ones who hold their dogs in high regard and those who are selling just for the $$.

When I sold my pups, I sold them for a lot less than the breeder I got mine from. She thought I should be asking more. I told her I did not feel right about asking the same as she did because she had years and years of experience, an established business and offered owners a wealth of knowlege. She has always been there for me for any questions I might have. She actually helped me find my male, Ben from another breeder, even going with me to look, so that I could have a breeding pair as she had no males unrelated to my girl. She has been to my house and I to hers on numerous occasions. This kind of after-sale caring attitude and obvious love of the breed is really worth so much. If you have to pay a lot more for the puppy, but get that sort of respectable breeder willing to be there for you and the pup, I think it is worth it.

I could not find any breeders in my area that were currently showing their yorkies. That was my first choice when I looked to buy mine too. I think it is well worth the extra to buy from someone who is still showing and having their dogs evaluated as to conformation. You pay more because it costs them a LOT of money to do that. A lot of times you are just lucky to have a show breeder WILLING to sell one of their pups without knowing you personally beforehand.

I know of this breeder and a bit of her lines, but do not know of her breeding practices.

The price that has been quoted you are in line of show quality dog...a bit pricey for a pet, even for the East Coast.

Yes you are crazy to spend that amount. Anything can be made a champion so the fact both parent are champions means very little. If a breeder is asking this for a pet I would question the ethics this breeder has. Don't fall for a scam. There are many pets available that will be wonderful and pretty pets for a lot less. I see a big "red flag" here....don't do it.

I hate to say it but there are some YTCA Members that don't seem to have the ethics that we'd expect of them. So don't use the fact that they're a member of that club as a reason to spent that amount. And anything can be finished. A CH. title is not necessarily a testament of quality although the champions certainly aren't as bad quality as so many being bred these days.

You are absolutely correct, there are good and bad breeders in every aspect. However, basing that this breeder is unethical just on the price that was quoted, isn't fair. There is more to be researched on a breeder before making such a determination.

I don't think anyone should make a recommendation of a breeder unless one is very familiar with a breeder's breeding practices. Recommendations and or opinions are a big responsibility. A puppy buyer must take the proper steps and research to make the best decision possibile when looking for that new family member.

I was answering another poster that asked if she was.

Price is high, but...
 

Sounds high compared to what the rest of us get (settle for, is more like it). Maybe she's trying to get paid a little bit for her efforts. We work our hearts out trying to "break even" when we really should be pricing our puppies to have a little profit to show for the effort.
I'm assuming this is a well bred puppy going on a spay/neuter contract and limited AKC registration, and this is what I would consider a "fair" price that gives the breeder a modest profit. This is a heck of a lot of work to be doing just to break even. It's a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week job with no vacations, folks.
I LOVE the page on her web site that describes her breeding practices and beliefs.

There is a space that consists of 15 pts, two of which are majors between a champion and a "going" to be a champion...and that space is a huge one.

I think thats too high unless your intentions are to breed or show

I am not a breeder, nor do I claim to have anywhere NEAR the knowledge that some of our dear members here have, but I noticed a few red flags on that website. One of her dams is 2.5 lbs, another was 9 years old and still having puppies:cry: If I were going to spend that amount of hard-earned money on a puppy, it wouldn't be from this breeder. Just my humble opinion.

Good luck in your search:D!!!

Agreed, if a breeder sells a breeder/show quality to an unknown that would be another red flag.

I didn't check out her website, but a 2.5 pound dam and another being bred at 9 years of age would definately make me proceed with caution, if at all.

There are so many things that require evaluation when attempting to find that breeder. So many have learned to talk the talk and have become excellent sales people. They know what to say and do to make that sale. As a prospective puppy buyer as well as a breeder, both need to look into each other's hearts and have a keen sense in judging a person's character.

No Female Ch's
 

I've taken a look at her breeding dams, and can't seem to see where there are any toybox champions. I also did not see a 9 yr old female being bred, but maybe in a different section of the website.

Definitely one of her females is off standard color for sure.

She lists none of the pre-breeding tests she does. That I could find on the site; just a statement they do the tests based on what the vet tells them is necessary. Caution: Most vets are NOT up to date on every breed, and what tests should be done for that breed.

As far as temperament goes; the OP should be clear in her mind, what kind of temperament of the dog she is looking for. Obviously, we all want a stable dog, but do you want a wee pistol, an inquisitive explorer, a quiet more laid back personality, a cuddle bug, or an independent spirit, high energy or lower.

God knows I love my wee Razz, but he would not be to everyone's taste. He is mischevious, active, stubborn, can be yippy, and gets into everything. He knows he is a lion, and has a whole lot of courage. Which can get him into a whole lot of trouble:D He also likes to cuddle (on his schedule), but emulates the big doggies, and often just lays at my feet.

Are you sure you read that correct? I'm concerned that facts are stayed.

From the Dams section:
EDGEWOOD BUDDING BEAUTY
DOB: 6-17-95
Sire: CH. RADNORS AMADEUS
dam: EDGEWOOD SMOOTH MOVE TO AMI



Almost all of the foundation lines here at Toybox revert back to Lizzie. This is the Great, Great Grandma to Twiggy and Jade. The Great Grandma to Ruby; The Grandmother to Demi...She is also the Mother of Half Pint; Grandmother of Topper and Tiara. She is the oldest dog here at Toybox Yorkies. Lizzie came to us from Cynthia J. Hill, Edgewood Kennels when Ruby was born. She had a litter the exact same day so when Ruby's Mother died, Lizzie Fostered Ruby along with her own 4 puppies. (Little Squirt is one of the 4 puppies born 0n 6-26-04)

If I am reading this right, Lizzie was born in 1995, and had a litter 6-26-04, which would make her 9 years old when she had the pups.

The 2.8ozs is one of her sires.

TOYBOX'S ROCK THE BOAT FOR GALLANT (ROCKY)
DOB: 7-29-06
SIRE: GALLANT'S SIR PHILLIP
DAM: AMEDURE'S WEDGEWOOD MACEY





ROCKY IS A VERY SMALL 2.8 OZ. MALE WHO IS CUTER THEN CUTE! JUST LOOK AT HIM. WE ARE TRYING VERY HARD TO GET HIM TO MATE TO ONE OF OUR GIRLS. HOPEFULLY THAT DAY WILL COME SOON. WATCH FOR HIS PUPS!

Thanks I now see ... and yes I believe this is what it says

Holy cow. $3000 for a pet? Unless it poops gold I can't imagine anyone paying that. If it were me and I were truly looking for just a pet (and had that kind of money to spend), I would go to a rescue, pay their fee and donate the rest to either the rescue or humane society. Can you imagine how much good a donation like that could bring?

TOYBOX'S OUT ON A LIMB DOB: 1-10-07
sire: NATALIE'S OBVIOUS INTENTIONS
dam: TOYBOX'S EXQUISITE JEWEL (RUBY)

Twiggy got her name because when she was 9 weeks old we had to rush her to the vets for a severe case of Low Blood Sugar (LBS). It turned out she was there for 10 days and when she came home needed dextrose every 2 hrs. round the clock for a week, every 4 hrs. the following week and so on till finally her sugar seemed to even off. Since she turned 3 months we have never had another problem with Twiggy of a physical nature. Twiggy is called the BAD GIRL OF TOYBOX YORKIES - all 2 1/2 lbs. of her. she wears shirts that say "I DO BAD THINGS" "BEEN THERE, CHEWED THAT" "DON'T LET THE CUTE THING FOOL YA" AND "I MAY BE SMALL BUT I'M THE BOSS". Twiggy has done modeling for Doggie Couture Lines with her Mom Ruby, as well as be my companion on almost all road trips I take. She plays with all the dogs here in the house but would much rather be in your lap if you walk in the door or sit on the couch.

Thank you all
 

Thank you all for taking time to enlighten me. I appreciate all your opinions and I now have a lot of "food for thought". I believe most of you have more knowledge than me and have thought of things that I had not questioned.

I agree too many flags on sizes of parents (moms and dad), neither are finished champions and to breed a 9 year old bitch :eek::eek:
Just because they are YTCA does not mean they are ethical.
And that is too much for a pet PERIOD!! Show bitch from finished parents of course ... Pet ..NO..
Keep looking and demand health testing.

Unless you are Pauline, then I question why a YTCA breeder would break a code of conduct, letting a tiny go home at 9 weeks of age.

Kalina82 copied and pasted it from Pauline's website.

Oh! Good.