YTCA breeders---
 

Quite often I see someone making reference to so and so as being a "YTCA breeder." I'm curious as to what that means to various people. "Breeding for the betterment of the breed" comes to mind, but I know some members who breed to sell puppies. Mind you, I don't feel that breeding to sell puppies is necessarily a bad thing, but the "betterment of the breed" reason goes hand in hand with showing. Someone who never shows is breeding to sell puppies, no? Well, maybe breeding because they love raising puppies, but the puppies still all end up being sold, never shown or used to better the breed.
Is it then OK for someone to breed to sell puppies as long as they belong to YTCA? If they don't belong to YTCA they are automatically given the negative dirty status of BYB, at least on this board.
Anyway, what makes YTCA membership a credential when all it takes to get in is sponsorship of two members. Nothing further is ever required the rest of their life. Of course, a member would be expected to keep their mouth shut about any of the club's practices and beliefs that they object to. Sorry for the rambling, trying not to be specific enough to embarrass anyone in particular.
Years ago an acquaintance YTCA member swore me to secrecy when a surprise brown puppy showed up in her litter. She was mortified that anyone "in the club might find out about this." I don't know what kind of trouble you can get into for producing a brown puppy, but I don't want to be on the inside of a so-called club that would give me any stress over this.
While I think the reaction to the brown puppy was extreme, other things have come up that make me feel I don't want to get entangled in that outfit.
Another example of a "club" policy I find scary is the way one of my friends was treated when a puppy customer filed a complaint about not being refunded her non-refundable deposit when she cancelled her purchase. My friend had her breeder listing suspended while the situation was investigated, which case dragged on for months until the customer sued and lost in small claims court.
Anyway, I think I'm at least as dedicated to good breeding as the best of the YTCA, but will remain a free-thinker, thank you.:)

I think lots of people have a misconception about the YTCA. I have a link to the club in my signature, and I put it there NOT to push the YTCA, but to enable yorkietalk members find and talk with good breeders. I think if anyone talks to a few members of the YTCA they will learn a great deal about the Yorkshire Terrier breed, and if it's right for them. I also think the major purpose of a good breeder when talking to a perspective owner is educating them about the breed. This does not mean that there are no great breeders who aren't members, but I believe people who are trying to improve the breed will want to belong to breed clubs. Will every member who joins join for the right reason, of course not; we all know that people do good things for the wrong reasons all the time. I want to make it clear that NOT every member of the YTCA is a great breeder or even an ethical breeder. For example, some people are showing for the wrong reasons, the purpose of showing is not to inflate your ego, or to justify the price of you dogs, the purpose of showing is to have your breeding stock evaluated. You can be a great breeder and not be a member of the YTCA, but I think it's important to live up to their standards, and ethics even before you attempt to be a member. I believe their code of conduct and code of ethics are great codes, and every breeder should try to live up to these things. Every dog breed has a mother club that tries to preserve and protect the breed, some are doing a much better job than others, and from my understanding of the club as a whole, they are doing a great job. I think it's a mistake to believe that once you join you give up your right to be a freethinking. The members of the YTCA that I've gotten to know are all very much freethinkers.

Most people think that being a member of YTCA buys you prestige, it's some sort of elite sority, clique or whatever.

Those of us that have chosen to become members and have been accepted, understand that the YTCA is the National Club, with By-Laws, Code of Ethics and Code of Conduct as guildelines. However, the majority of us know that the club is only as good as what we put into it. YTCA is the membership.

I'm a YTCA member that breeds "very" little. I haven't had a litter in 3 years and I know members that breed very little as well. Of course your going to have members of any club that are bad apples. I think many have stated that multiple times and here I say it again. One that belongs to the YTCA should be breeding for the betterment of the breed! It's simple as that but I can only speak for myself and not others. Once again, every organization will have those bad apples...
If one has a brown puppy, parti puppy, golden puppy ect...should spay/neuter and place into a pet home and spay/neuter that breeding pair that produced it ( I know that's what I would do with NO hesitation ). Of course if you know your pedigrees backward and forward you shouldn't be breeding those colors or producing them but of course anything can pop up in a litter. It's what one does with it is the question and morals and ethics...
I know some breeders that do breed and don't show but it's way after they've had their time in the ring and they do provide others in the YTCA with their bloodlines to keep it going with the understanding and trust and put them in the show ring. Then I know YTCA members that show their dogs and after they obtain their championship, spay/neuter and place into pet homes and never breed them because they have stopped breeding. I personally would love to just buy my show dog and show them and then leave the breeding to someone else as I prefer the show ring vs. the whelping box but unfortunately for me I have to breed on occassion to produce that show dog for myself and remember not every litter will produce a show dog. If I had the money I'd just buy a show dog, show it, finish it and spay/neuter them and place them in pet homes.
I always say the YTCA is a starting place and research your breeder thoroughly and that breeder will become your family for life, as you, as a breeder are entrusting your little one to someone else. Breeding and showing in my opinion does go hand in hand and should. I'll say again, it's all about morals, ethics and responsiblity.

I think I'm pretty much a free thinker and speaker :)

No doubt about that!

And you know me, what's that phrase I use that you hate "So, What I don't care.

You knew I'd say that :) Some just don't like that I do speak my mind and a free thinker and take it as rude ect...but oh well, I'd rather let people know where I stand than stand in the background...LOL

Donna

Donna
I just clicked on your website. You have some beautiful babies, and I loved your pets page.:)

Awww thank you! I just love showing off my babies! They are all the love of my life!!! Wouldn't trade em for anything! Hubby knows to never make me choose LOL..he knows who I'd choose :)

Donna

probably wasn't fair to bring up here---
 

Aside from Yorkietalk my exposure to YTCA has been limited mainly to the New England states over the past 10 years, very small membership, maybe 12people, very small. Of those, maybe 4 show on a regular basis. Some are consistently nice, some never nice, some sometimes civil. I apologize to the truly good members, but I'm just too old to figure it out. Most of you have benefit of a larger, more active local club, I think, that may make the club more interesting. I belong to a nice little local toy breed club where everyone treats me nice. The president of that club, by the way, is daughter of a long ago president of YTCA, Betty Dullinger.

your love for them is obvious:)
Your hubby is very smart:D

A buyer's point of view...
 

Being a YTCA breeder didn't mean a whole lot to me initially when I was looking for a dog. I just wanted to buy a dog from someone who cared about something other than money in raising and selling dogs. Having been down the road of two puppy mill dogs and the problems inherent in poor breeding including financial and emotional costs, I wanted to try to minimize the chances of having another sick dog. So I looked for home raised yorkies by families and/or individuals who had knowledge of our breed's issues and was committed to at least trying to reduce the incidence of some of the congenital problems such as liver shunt. Some had differing views of look of the dog and some had different time lines for allowing adoption of the dog. At the end of the day, I bought the first cute puppy that came available from a loving breeder who just happened to be a YTCA breeder. The more important factor to me was that the breeder had 25 years of breeding yorkies and could tell me detailed information for generations back about the dogs and to this day answers any and all questions I have about the lineage. Basic research revealed a good reputation, good breeding lines, and positive reviews so that was good enough for me to go and see the one little male who was available - my little Teddy Bumpkins.

I don't know about the politics of the YTCA or any other club for that matter and as a buyer I really don't care.

Most of us belong to Regional Breed Clubs as well as All Breed Clubs.
YTCA is not just about showing, it's not a great big social club. They are actively involved with research on diseases plaguing our breed. Although, we do have 2 big social events a year (The National & The Roving) where people come from all over the world, not only to show their dogs, but to meet up with old friends that have a common interest.

In addition, for the record, one does not have to be a breeder or an exhibitor to be a member. However, one does have to have the need/desire to uphold The Standard and perserve the breed, as most members do.

this couldn't have said it any better!!!

Oh your babies are pretty, Donna!

I do understand how little you breed, and that your pleasure is derived from going out there and showing an excellent dog. I think that most of us would be in financial ruins if we didn't have puppies to sell to pay for the showing.

My big departure from YTCA is that I would not automatically spay/neuter an otherwise excellent pair that produced a brown, parti, or other non-standard color. Nor would I would keep a great looking, healthy carrier out of the ring. Since my breeding dogs are exclusively for my use, not for sale or stud, I am taking a more liberal position with regards to color. Therefore, I cannot belong to YTCA.

By the way, I often refer people to the YTCA directory as the place one will most likely find a good breeder, hoping one day YTCEHB becomes big enough to be a good resource too.

Hi all. I have a question regarding something that was brought up in this thread. I used to breed Maltese and basically, they all came out white. So you might get a little lemon color on the ears but basically color was a given. Now this Yorkie thing is definitely a "dog of a different color" LOL. Just with the things I've learned along the way about breeding dogs in general... something from generations back can pop up. Does that mean an excellent dog should be thrown out of a breeding program? How about if a dog produced many above average quality Yorkies and then threw a brown Yorkie? I wonder if that warrants throwing it out of a breeding program. I have not produced a litter of Yorkie puppies but I intend to breed my girl after I finish her. So this is really just for discussion purposes. I love the subject of inheritance. Very interesting!

I've (attempted to attach )a pic of my bitch from the weekend where she got back to back majors. So, I slipped a brag in there ;)

Barbara

Well for me it I would spay/neuter and take out of my breeding program because the standard does not call for those off colors so therefore I wouldn't breed it again. Just like I wouldn't breed a yorkie with a bad bite even though it has good structure. There are major faults I can't live with even if that was the only fault my dog had.

And that's why the YTCA is in place; to perserve the Standard.

First off, Let me CONGRATULATE you on your back to back majors!! That is AWESOME!!!!
To answer your question it's a question as to what "faults" you can live with in your breeding program. I won't breed a dog with a bad bite even though that dog may have the best structure and movement. That is a fault I do not want to produce in my lines as I don't want to produce an off color yorkie either. You can also have a great dog and it finally had LS pop up from generations back so of course even though it's produced many good qualities and may have had many champions the first thing I'd do is absolutely spay/neuter that producer of LS or any other genetic health issue or major fault. But I can only speak for myself and what I'd do as a breeder/exhibitor :) I've neutered my first champion yorkie and he has "GREAT" lines in his pedigree and that pedigree has produced many champions ect...but he ended up with an over shot bite, went too light and it's just something I couldn't live with in my breeding program even though he has some wonderful, wonderful lineage behind him. Again, it's what faults you can live with and what's easier to breed out ect....lots of variances to what one can live with what they want to produce.

Donna

Well, I guess this depends again on your perspective, but I see breed clubs as "conservators" of the breed. Past breeders have worked very hard to create a dog breeds out of various mutts. Eventually, there is an identifiable standard that is acceptable to the experts of the breed, and these would be the people who have been involved in the breed for years and have studied under other "experts". They don't go in as a novice, and want to change the standard. They realize that just because they have a "purebred" it means nothing, and for a dog to be bred it has to have more than a purebred background, it has to be a great example of the breed. I think this is where most newbie breeders go wrong. I look at it the way one might look at a endangered species, if you want that species around in the future, you have to protect and preserve it, and even help it mate. Until someone understands the importance of "standard" and why it's in place, I personally don't even think they should be breeding. In my opinion, you cannot just pick and choose what part of standard you accept and what part you reject, and still be a good breeder. Standard should change very slowly, and in my opinion, only because of health risks being connected with certain traits. Good breeders should never cave in to popular demands from the puppy buying public, so unless you can understand the importance of preserving standard, than no breed club will ever be right for you, as that is their primary purpose! This doesn't just pertain to the Yorkshire Terrier breed, without a clear standard, there really is no breed, standard is first, linage is second.

Thanks for the congratulations. It was great fun.

I too would not choose to breed an off standard colored Yorkie or bad mouthed Yorkie.. but I'm wondering if we need to throw the parents out of a breeding program if they produce such a puppy. Rather, select the best puppies, if they are as good or better than their parents?

Barbara

I think I understand that point of view. However I would like to say that the National and Regional Breed clubs, do their utmost to preserve the breed. They are the ultimate guardians of this breed, and it does heavily include the health risks of Yorkies. Their members try to preserve this beautiful breed in looks, in conformation, in temperament, and in health. Without their efforts, their education of breeders, the Yorkshire Terrier might be in dire straits.

I think that as an owner of this wonderful breed, as I am, you may find your way to seeing the importance of a National club, and support their efforts in ways that you can.

For most pet buyers don't understand the importance of Breed Clubs. Quite simply without them, any purebred dog, might fade away into cross bred dilution, and insignifance.

We are usually a relatively small group of ppl, passionate about our breed, and spend countless hours, researching, training, teaching, and learning. These are countless hours of volunteer work, whose only purpose is to protect our breed, to improve the breed, to see this beautiful breed continue to thrive and to improve.

We do this first for our love of the breed, and if you have purchased a pup from an "ethical" breeder be they a member or not of YTCA, they for sure have tried to keep up with the latest in research, the YTCA's guidelines for breeding, have health tested all their sires and dams as per those guidelines.

So in summary the clubs of any purebred dog are a huge part of you getting a healthy pup.

Hi,

First of all, there is nothing in the Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics for the YTCA that mandates that a breeding dog or pair must be spayed/neutered if an off color pup is produced. That is up to the discretion of the breeder. But you had better believe that the off color pup won't end up being sold by that breeder as rare, rainbow, etc. etc. The YTCA breeders strive to preserve our breed as a blue and gold dog. Regarding your question, I personally would not keep a puppy out of a litter that produced an off color. Nor would I ever breed the parents together again. If I ever did choose to breed either parent and it again produced an off color with another mate I'd remove it from my breeding program. Let's face it, this is a very hard breed. There are so many things we have to breed for, color alone is difficult. Why stack the cards against yourself by keeping and breeding from pups that most likely carry the gene for off colors. And yes, I understand Mendelyn's Law so not all pups will carry the gene. But litters are small and every litter we breed must count. You'd be setting yourself up for disappointment by keeping the littermates. Not a good way to start.

Sorry, still not getting it---
 

I didn't mean to get into a color debate.

I breed for health, temperament, structure, color, IN THAT ORDER.

I don't breed for partis, brown, gold, green, whatever, never got an off color puppy, never had anyone ask for one. It does not, however, make me all nervous when someone else likes those colors if they're not trying to force them on me.

I don't need to find my way to anything - Don't you think that buying a dog ultimately from a YTCA breeder did exactly what you think I need to learn to do -- i.e. support the club? My point was that the average buyer just does not care. I don't consider myself an average buyer - I'm an educated buyer and yorkie owner so imagine my surprise when I found that I knew more about this breed than some breeders I talked to. With that being said, I still highly regard Teddy's breeder and he is a better dog than those from the puppy mill. Is he perfect - not quite LOL.

I think you meant Mendel.

I think I meant Mendelian!:aimeeyork