Theriogenologist? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

CC's · 10-29-2005, 06:20 PM

Again we are talking breeding tinies. In case someone reads who is on the fence, here is MHO. Those who have their minds made up one way or the other can skip over it.

Asking a 3 pound yorkie to pass a possible 6-8 oz pup is like a small framed 100 pound woman having a 15 to 20 pound child. I hate to use humans as examples for dogs but it seems the easiest way to explain.

Yorkies are not uniform in size and unless you know every dog ever in the line for at least 5 generations and their sizes you can't be sure what will be produced. Single pup litters can have a very large pup, and a large litter can lead to fatigue and uterine inertia. A dog with small reserves and a uterus overly stretched could really be at risk.

They also, as Jerry said can and do rupture. This will cost both Dam and pups their lives. This doesn't even speak to the possible lack of pelvic bone space.

Any vet who knows Yorkies are still a relatively young breed with still such varying sizes would never suggest this. If they do, specialist or not I would go elsewhere.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 10-30-2005, 08:50 AM

This is what I found and it does seem to suggest that c-sections are more likely in these situations, but the doctor doesn't seem to think that this is life endangering?:

Bill Sones and Rich Sones
Richmond.com
Saturday, October 15, 2005
Q. From a Spokane, Washington reader: Recently I have noticed a lot of media attention given to artificially inseminated mixed-breed dogs. If a very small dog like a teacup poodle is inseminated with a large breed dog like a St. Bernard, would the mother (1) abort (2) have one live birth puppy (3) have her life endangered?"

A. Generally not one and three, more likely two which may also include a litter of live births, says animal reproduction specialist Dr. Margaret V. Root Kustritz, University of Minnesota small animal theriogenologist (from the Greek therio = beast, gen = birth, ology = study of). "I get this question all the time. Dogs are plenty driven by urges to breed or be bred regardless of their mismatched sizes so artificial insemination might not even be necessary."

Once the female is pregnant, the puppies will grow to the size available to them, so even though it seems counterintuitive, a small female dog can carry pups from a giant breed male dog. Even where there is no size mismatch, says Kustritz, if a female dog has only one pup, it will grow to fill the space, thus becoming larger and more likely to cause dystocia (difficulty whelping) than would pups from a large litter.

YorkieRose · 10-30-2005, 10:17 AM

I may be one of the few here who has no problem using a larger male then female...I have used several 6 and 7 pound champions and not found the pups any larger at birth then using my tiny males. I have bred 5 pound females to 7 pound males with no problem..I have also bred 3 pound males to 7 pound females and needed a section due to oversized pup or pups.

You are going to be hard pressed to find a variety of tiny champion males at stud...I do not have to use a champion each time, but the pedigree does need to be bumped up on a regular basis. IMO

Why breed a tiny female in the first place? The world is full of wonderful pet owners who want pups at least 5 or more pounds.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 10-31-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I may be one of the few here who has no problem using a larger male then female...I have used several 6 and 7 pound champions and not found the pups any larger at birth then using my tiny males. I have bred 5 pound females to 7 pound males with no problem..I have also bred 3 pound males to 7 pound females and needed a section due to oversized pup or pups.

You are going to be hard pressed to find a variety of tiny champion males at stud...I do not have to use a champion each time, but the pedigree does need to be bumped up on a regular basis. IMO

Why breed a tiny female in the first place? The world is full of wonderful pet owners who want pups at least 5 or more pounds.

Good point.

10-30-2005, 10:17 AM	#18
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	male size I may be one of the few here who has no problem using a larger male then female...I have used several 6 and 7 pound champions and not found the pups any larger at birth then using my tiny males. I have bred 5 pound females to 7 pound males with no problem..I have also bred 3 pound males to 7 pound females and needed a section due to oversized pup or pups. You are going to be hard pressed to find a variety of tiny champion males at stud...I do not have to use a champion each time, but the pedigree does need to be bumped up on a regular basis. IMO Why breed a tiny female in the first place? The world is full of wonderful pet owners who want pups at least 5 or more pounds.

10-29-2005, 06:20 PM	#16
CC's YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 402	Again we are talking breeding tinies. In case someone reads who is on the fence, here is MHO. Those who have their minds made up one way or the other can skip over it. Asking a 3 pound yorkie to pass a possible 6-8 oz pup is like a small framed 100 pound woman having a 15 to 20 pound child. I hate to use humans as examples for dogs but it seems the easiest way to explain. Yorkies are not uniform in size and unless you know every dog ever in the line for at least 5 generations and their sizes you can't be sure what will be produced. Single pup litters can have a very large pup, and a large litter can lead to fatigue and uterine inertia. A dog with small reserves and a uterus overly stretched could really be at risk. They also, as Jerry said can and do rupture. This will cost both Dam and pups their lives. This doesn't even speak to the possible lack of pelvic bone space. Any vet who knows Yorkies are still a relatively young breed with still such varying sizes would never suggest this. If they do, specialist or not I would go elsewhere.

10-30-2005, 08:50 AM	#17
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	This is what I found and it does seem to suggest that c-sections are more likely in these situations, but the doctor doesn't seem to think that this is life endangering?: Bill Sones and Rich Sones Richmond.com Saturday, October 15, 2005 Q. From a Spokane, Washington reader: Recently I have noticed a lot of media attention given to artificially inseminated mixed-breed dogs. If a very small dog like a teacup poodle is inseminated with a large breed dog like a St. Bernard, would the mother (1) abort (2) have one live birth puppy (3) have her life endangered?" A. Generally not one and three, more likely two which may also include a litter of live births, says animal reproduction specialist Dr. Margaret V. Root Kustritz, University of Minnesota small animal theriogenologist (from the Greek therio = beast, gen = birth, ology = study of). "I get this question all the time. Dogs are plenty driven by urges to breed or be bred regardless of their mismatched sizes so artificial insemination might not even be necessary." Once the female is pregnant, the puppies will grow to the size available to them, so even though it seems counterintuitive, a small female dog can carry pups from a giant breed male dog. Even where there is no size mismatch, says Kustritz, if a female dog has only one pup, it will grow to fill the space, thus becoming larger and more likely to cause dystocia (difficulty whelping) than would pups from a large litter.