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-   -   New At This - Lilly's Pregnant (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/208094-new-lillys-pregnant.html)

BamaFan121s 07-13-2010 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3198150)
I'm one of those that helps because of the dogs. But, each situation is different. This OP has been a member here for 3 years so she can't claim innocent ignorance. And this was a deliberate breeding...not an oops litter.

All that was recognized by the ones posting earlier on this thread and still there was no bashing. I think I should know as I've complained about rude people in the past...but there was none of that here. Just a mild scolding to the OP.

Somehow, she took offense at these posts. I honestly don't know what to make of someone like this. I can tell you that being that high strung/thin skinned at whelping time won't be good.

I hope some of you can reach some level of communication with her, for the sake of the dam and pups. Lord knows they need the help.
:yeahthat:

Nancy1999 07-13-2010 01:35 PM
The very people some are accusing of bashing the OP are the very people that will be up at 3:00 helping her whelp the puppies. They never turn anyone away regardless of the situation. It's amazes me how these newbie breeders don't research prior to breeding, yet know how to search YT, to find those that will help them during the whelp.

miabellaamoure 07-13-2010 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom (Post 3197807)
thanks Melissa,and Kim

Lily is doing great right now...temp where it should be ....and looks like this weekend she will have some cute widdle puppies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies (Post 3198108)
I have not yelled at anyone. I just see you all yelling at me because I want to help.

The OP has my phone number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3198150)
I'm one of those that helps because of the dogs. But, each situation is different. This OP has been a member here for 3 years so she can't claim innocent ignorance. And this was a deliberate breeding...not an oops litter.

All that was recognized by the ones posting earlier on this thread and still there was no bashing. I think I should know as I've complained about rude people in the past...but there was none of that here. Just a mild scolding to the OP.

Somehow, she took offense at these posts. I honestly don't know what to make of someone like this. I can tell you that being that high strung/thin skinned at whelping time won't be good.

I hope some of you can reach some level of communication with her, for the sake of the dam and pups. Lord knows they need the help.
Help has been sent...best of luck to this Momma & her litter!

We can only hope this owner will keep to her word of "one" litter and a spay will follow.;)

janetcerdas 07-13-2010 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rik20101 (Post 3197189)
You are bringing more mutts into the world when there aren't already enough 'yorki-poos' out there. So, what are you going to do with these precious mutts? Will you give them away? Sell them? If you sell them, how much will you ask? Do you plan on breaking even or making a little cash off of the 'designer' breed?

Yea, I am being a smart butt....

I really don't think it's up to you to decide whether or not there are enough "yorkie-poos" out there. I also don't think it's any of your business whether or not she will charge for HER puppies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3197250)
In addition if the OP was so concerned about the welfare of the female; Original Post on the 10th and didn't come on again until this afternoon.......Speaks volumes.
How do you know what she was doing exactly? She could have been at the vets or caring for her female, you guys really do think you know it ALL.. yes she was VERY wrong for breeding her female for a selfish reason but you guys are doing more harm then good. I think she got the point when she was told over and over that she's irresponsible and that she should feel guilty. So how about some of you that seem to know-it-all start giving this girl some USEFUL advice or these puppies could die.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3197410)

You need to either be prepared for answers from all ends of the spectrum, or refrain from asking the question altogether.
I strongly disagree with this. ANYONE is allowed to ask a question, no matter how STUPID the question might be, or whether or not it's up to your standards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 3197416)
Everyone realizes your girl is already pregnant and she needs to get through the process of whelping. It may seem useless to you to hear the responses you received, but these responses really help others who come to this section when they are just thinking of breeding their dogs. Its valuable information.

Some people got upset and showed it with emoticons, but that should not be the reason that you chose not to listen to the advise.

I know you think dog breeding is a natural thing done for hundreds of years in the wild, but how many yorkies (or any toy breed) having pups in the wild??Wild dogs dont get to come and talk about their whelping experiences.
:thumbup::thumbup:

Mardelin 07-13-2010 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3197322)
Great post Gail.

However, as the original Poster said that wheping is not rocket science, we make it more complex than what it is. If that's the case, no questions needed to be answered.

I for one find it very difficult to assist a Backyard Breeder....only to help them in continuing bad breeding practices where there dogs continue to suffer under their enept hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janetcerdas (Post 3198218)
I

How do you know what she was doing exactly? She could have been at the vets or caring for her female, you guys really do think you know it ALL.. yes she was VERY wrong for breeding her female for a selfish reason but you guys are doing more harm then good. I think she got the point when she was told over and over that she's irresponsible and that she should feel guilty. So how about some of you that seem to know-it-all start giving this girl some USEFUL advice or these puppies could die.

:thumbup::thumbup:
Read my above post.

If you're so concerned why don't you give her advice instead quoting other's posts

BamaFan121s 07-13-2010 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by janetcerdas (Post 3198218)
I strongly disagree with this. ANYONE is allowed to ask a question, no matter how STUPID the question might be, or whether or not it's up to your standards.
And ANYONE is allowed to answer, not just those willing to give the desired response. That's my point, if you are going to ask, be prepared for answers. If you can't handle them, then refrain. I'm not saying don't ask, just be ready if you do.

peanut 07-13-2010 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3198223)
Read my above post.

If you're so concerned why don't you give her advice instead quoting other's posts
I guess she is like the rest of us, putting her 2 cents in!

Mardelin 07-13-2010 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3198244)
I guess she is like the rest of us, putting her 2 cents in!

2 cents is fine, but being insistent that "know at alls" should begin advising....Put your money where your mouth is (and I'm speaking in generalities)

By the way I did offer advise, the only advice that would truely benefit the OP. However, it wasn't sugar coated as the OP expected.

peanut 07-13-2010 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3198283)
2 cents is fine, but being insistent that "know at alls" should begin advising....Put your money where your mouth is (and I'm speaking in generalities)

By the way I did offer advise, the only advice that would truely benefit the OP. However, it wasn't sugar coated as the OP expected.
Well I never said "I knew it all", but I have whelped litters, and I didn't sugar coat it I said the OP was wrong for breeding her, but the fact that she was due to whelp soon, I offered help to her, some thinks it wrong, but being a responsible breeder, I put puppies & bitches first.

Mardelin 07-13-2010 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3198296)
Well I never said "I knew it all", but I have whelped litters, and I didn't sugar coat it I said the OP was wrong for breeding her, but the fact that she was due to whelp soon, I offered help to her, some thinks it wrong, but being a responsible breeder, I put puppies & bitches first.
I didn't say that you said it....but the person I quoted did.....Please don't misread my post.

Being a responsible breeder, does not mean advocating or promoting poor breeding practices. This girl may be in harms way, however, not in jeaporady. The advice given was to see a vet and find a mentor, that is the best advice anyone can give. Not too late to do either.

As stated by another poster, the OP has been on this forum for quite awhile, but, didn't take the time to research even the basic questions. Or even ask questions prior to breeding. But, I bet she'll know enough to research the best go to people to help her with the whelp should it turn sour and it'll be those people that she accused of being abusive.

peanut 07-13-2010 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3198308)

Being a responsible breeder, does not mean advocating or promoting poor breeding practices. This girl may be in harms way, however, not in jeaporady. The advice given was to see a vet and find a mentor, that is the best advice anyone can give. Not too late to do either.
I didn't advocate or promote it, I just think as a responsible breeder that I should help if needed, just like you will if she needs help. I also have to because I was taught to help others. I will be the first to tell people that are thinking about breeding to research, go to shows, and find a mentor, breed to standard, get the best out there that is standard before you breed and tell others that don't have a clue to spay & neuter.

gemy 07-13-2010 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3198121)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm borrowing a quote from someone without revealing their name. But, it does say alot.


"I have always disliked the idea of YT becoming a safe haven for some people that decided they are going to breed. Where they are patted on the head, told that 'what's done is done', and then had their hand held through the process. Sends the message that 'hey, no matter how bad I screw up, these people are always going to bail me out..." Sorry, but I can't condone that."

The OP has been on this forum for awhile, plenty of time to have read and realized what they were doing was incorrect.
:thumbup::thumbup: Right on. Let's get this straight a member for prox 3years. Long enough to search all the threads on breeding, screening, whelping problems, not to mention getting books on breeding. This was a deliberate decision on her part. What exactly do I "owe" this person in terms of advice at this point? 7-10 days before whelp date - the proper person to ask is her vet and or her mentor. And vets do have a limit on the amount of free advice they are willing to give. If she didn`t care to take the time to do the research, why should she expect anyone to take the time to reply to her.

This person was ready to take advantage of the willing hearts and minds here,banking on our overall love of dogs will `reel` in a member or two willing to help out this person`s dog and her future pups. And it worked.

janetcerdas 07-13-2010 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3198223)
Read my above post.

If you're so concerned why don't you give her advice instead quoting other's posts
Oh I'm sorry are we not allowed to quote on yorkie talk? My bad ! Guess I didn't get the memo:rolleyes:

janetcerdas 07-13-2010 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3198296)
Well I never said "I knew it all", but I have whelped litters, and I didn't sugar coat it I said the OP was wrong for breeding her, but the fact that she was due to whelp soon, I offered help to her, some thinks it wrong, but being a responsible breeder, I put puppies & bitches first.
When I mentioned "know it all" I wasn't referring to you :)

But I think your post is right on.. I dont see any "it's okay if you made a mistake, breeding is no biggie" comments. So I really don't get why the word "sugar coat" keeps coming up because the op never asked for any sugar coating she just asked for straight up advice and instead she keeps having the same thing repeated over and over again which is definitly not helping her situation. I'm not a breeder so I can't offer her any advice,but if I did, I wouldn't sit here and bash her instead of helping her and her puppies, IMO

rik20101 07-13-2010 10:22 PM
In my newbie opinion, this thread needs to be closed. All it is doing is pitting member against member.

Tnyorkiemom 07-14-2010 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rik20101 (Post 3198729)
In my newbie opinion, this thread needs to be closed. All it is doing is pitting member against member.
i agree....but i think it has to be asked to be closed by the OP....not sure if she will come back on here to do that.

rik20101 07-14-2010 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by janetcerdas (Post 3198218)
I really don't think it's up to you to decide whether or not there are enough "yorkie-poos" out there. I also don't think it's any of your business whether or not she will charge for HER puppies.
I'm sorry, but I just cannot help myself...I have to respond to this. I mentioned her pricing for her pups because she said she was not in this for the money.

You are very rude to be honest. You have been more rude than any other person who has responded on this thread IMO. If it wasn't public business then it shouldn't have been posted on the internet.

I really don't think it is up to you to decide what is public domain and what isn't.

And with that, I am done with this thread....I have also added my very first YT member to my ignore list.

BamaFan121s 07-14-2010 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by janetcerdas (Post 3198723)
I really don't get why the word "sugar coat" keeps coming up because the op never asked for any sugar coating she just asked for straight up advice
It keeps coming up because when she does get straight up advice, members who can't even offer any keep jumping in and lecturing others on being rude and how they should have posted. (Which seems to be a regular habit for some.:cool:) You say that getting told the same thing over and over isn't doing her any good and I agree--her view of the situation probably is not going to be swayed. But you never know who else is reading that might think twice and benefit from it. People other than the OP read threads and learn. That's been pointed out several times by various members very recently.

BamaFan121s 07-14-2010 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rik20101 (Post 3198816)
And with that, I am done with this thread....I have also added my very first YT member to my ignore list.
They always say the first one's the hardest! :p

Rhetts_mama 07-14-2010 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by janetcerdas (Post 3198218)
I really don't think it's up to you to decide whether or not there are enough "yorkie-poos" out there. I also don't think it's any of your business whether or not she will charge for HER puppies.



How do you know what she was doing exactly? She could have been at the vets or caring for her female, you guys really do think you know it ALL.. yes she was VERY wrong for breeding her female for a selfish reason but you guys are doing more harm then good. I think she got the point when she was told over and over that she's irresponsible and that she should feel guilty. So how about some of you that seem to know-it-all start giving this girl some USEFUL advice or these puppies could die.




I strongly disagree with this. ANYONE is allowed to ask a question, no matter how STUPID the question might be, or whether or not it's up to your standards.




:thumbup::thumbup:
If no one else will say it, I will. There should be ZERO yorkie poos out there. At least at this time. Until the breeding is undertaken by those experienced enough with genetics can pick out those lines that will produce the healthiest specimens. Until then, it's a crap shoot.

The OP came on in her first post and started asking about AKC papers. That's a signal she's planning on selling. If multiple people told her she would not be able to get them because of the mixed breeds, that's not hammering it in, that's reinforcing the point.

We know what she has been doing, or rather not been doing, by the questions she asked and stated in her original post. No one who is truly interested in the health of their bitch and pups would wait until 10 days out before coming on looking for assistance. Especially not someone who had been a member here for 3 years. The questions she did ask, showed a lack of understanding of basic breeding knowledge.

She was given the absolute BEST advise she could be given at this point- Find an EXPERIENCED MENTOR who could be at her side through this, or failing that FIND A VET who would walk her through this.

Look, I'm a nurse. I studied in school for 4 years before I graduated. Even after graduation, no one would have turned me loose on a pregnant patient and told me I had all the knowledge I needed to resuscitate a baby. I was book smart, but experience dumb. Instead, for many , many months I worked 1 on 1 with and experienced mentor who guided my every move and was there to back me up if something went wrong (and it does go wrong more often than not). It took a long time before I was able to do it on my own. Whelping isn't any different. If anything, it may be harder because those patients can't tell you what is going on with them.

I absolutely agree that everyone should be able to ask questions. But then they have to be open to every answer that comes their way. They may not like them, they may not agree with them. But the answer just may end up saving the life of one of their pups or a pup belonging to someone else.

Nancy1999 07-14-2010 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3198916)
If no one else will say it, I will. There should be ZERO yorkie poos out there. At least at this time. Until the breeding is undertaken by those experienced enough with genetics can pick out those lines that will produce the healthiest specimens. Until then, it's a crap shoot.

The OP came on in her first post and started asking about AKC papers. That's a signal she's planning on selling. If multiple people told her she would not be able to get them because of the mixed breeds, that's not hammering it in, that's reinforcing the point.

We know what she has been doing, or rather not been doing, by the questions she asked and stated in her original post. No one who is truly interested in the health of their bitch and pups would wait until 10 days out before coming on looking for assistance. Especially not someone who had been a member here for 3 years. The questions she did ask, showed a lack of understanding of basic breeding knowledge.

She was given the absolute BEST advise she could be given at this point- Find an EXPERIENCED MENTOR who could be at her side through this, or failing that FIND A VET who would walk her through this.

Look, I'm a nurse. I studied in school for 4 years before I graduated. Even after graduation, no one would have turned me loose on a pregnant patient and told me I had all the knowledge I needed to resuscitate a baby. I was book smart, but experience dumb. Instead, for many , many months I worked 1 on 1 with and experienced mentor who guided my every move and was there to back me up if something went wrong (and it does go wrong more often than not). It took a long time before I was able to do it on my own. Whelping isn't any different. If anything, it may be harder because those patients can't tell you what is going on with them.

I absolutely agree that everyone should be able to ask questions. But then they have to be open to every answer that comes their way. They may not like them, they may not agree with them. But the answer just may end up saving the life of one of their pups or a pup belonging to someone else.
Great post, I hope people really read it and take it to heart.

miabellaamoure 07-15-2010 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3198824)
It keeps coming up because when she does get straight up advice, members who can't even offer any keep jumping in and lecturing others on being rude and how they should have posted. (Which seems to be a regular habit for some.:cool:) You say that getting told the same thing over and over isn't doing her any good and I agree--her view of the situation probably is not going to be swayed. But you never know who else is reading that might think twice and benefit from it. People other than the OP read threads and learn. That's been pointed out several times by various members very recently.
:thumbup:couldn't have said it any better...now if some could just look past the delivery and concentrate on the information, our work would be done & we'd be high 5'in!...;)

Tnyorkiemom 07-17-2010 08:54 AM
just to update everyone truely interested.........op's female had 5 very healthy puppies.....mommy and pups are all doing great!!

Nancy1999 07-17-2010 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom (Post 3202495)
just to update everyone truely interested.........op's female had 5 very healthy puppies.....mommy and pups are all doing great!!
I sincerely hope you advise her on how to find good homes for these puppies, so many new breeders don't understand the importance of finding permanent homes and are willing to sell to anyone with the puppy bug. She needs to be able to weed out the bad buyers. She is responsible for these offspring and proper placement is so important, shelters and rescues are really having problems placing all the dogs they have.

Tnyorkiemom 07-17-2010 09:36 AM
Nancy.......i so agree with you ...so does she...she has said that they will be asked alot of questions ...and checked out to the best of her ability........she loves Lily and feels these pups are an extension of her........so believe me they will definitely have to "cut the mustard" so to speak.....you are right...........these widdle darlings depend on us to make sure they are taken care of and are very loved.

peanut 07-18-2010 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom (Post 3202495)
just to update everyone truely interested.........op's female had 5 very healthy puppies.....mommy and pups are all doing great!!
Thats great news, now I hope she will spay the bitch after she is done nursing.

H5yorkie 07-18-2010 06:27 PM
I have been a member for sometime and only comment once in awhile, I have read almost all postings regarding breeding, have worked with a mentor for 2 years and even tried to keep my baby from getting pregnant. NOT once have I felt I couldn't come on YT and ask questions or PM someone to ask. My mentor has been a valuable friend to me and entrusted me with her bitches at my house as if they were mine and she was there to watch and advise. To EVERYONE who has commented, before you come on here and call out others for being truthful read the original post. She herself should have known there would be some slack. I would hope the day I do post questions of help I get ALL comments as someone else can learn from the positive and negative comments with the exception of bashing another member ESPECIALLY a member who has continuously given sound advice and has saved many a pup, here online, over the phone AT ALL HOURS OF THE DAY! JMO...on that note, I'm on puppy watch with my girls for the first time and must go:)

Mysweetbabies 07-23-2010 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom (Post 3202495)
just to update everyone truely interested.........op's female had 5 very healthy puppies.....mommy and pups are all doing great!!
I am so glad the pups and mom are doing great.:)

Jennyddc1 08-26-2010 10:26 AM
could i have one of the puppies


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