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-   -   Breeding and Liver Shunts (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/207001-breeding-liver-shunts.html)

amcgriff88 06-24-2010 04:53 PM
Thank you Mary. I will do so. Either way she will at least be spayed once the puppies are weaned. I was planning on doing this before the whole liver shunt issue.

And No, I do not have any proof from the vet that the puppy had liver shunt. Another reason I held off on talking about getting my female spayed.

Mardelin 06-24-2010 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcgriff88 (Post 3175165)
Thank you Mary. I will do so. Either way she will at least be spayed once the puppies are weaned. I was planning on doing this before the whole liver shunt issue.

And No, I do not have any proof from the vet that the puppy had liver shunt. Another reason I held off on talking about getting my female spayed.
You are in a predicament. Not about getting her spayed, but with possibity of terminating the litter. Not a decision you want to make without having written vet facts. Bat levels and another test done on the pup. I understand your concern is for the pup, mom and new litter. But, I do know how heart wrenching it must be for you.

YorkieRose 06-24-2010 05:03 PM
I would not consider spaying if it was my bitch..to me the solution would be quite simple...I would keep the pups until it was determined all was well...
Why kill all on the off chance one may have a shunt? JMO..and respect others who see it differently.

YorkieRose 06-24-2010 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcgriff88 (Post 3175165)
Thank you Mary. I will do so. Either way she will at least be spayed once the puppies are weaned. I was planning on doing this before the whole liver shunt issue.

And No, I do not have any proof from the vet that the puppy had liver shunt. Another reason I held off on talking about getting my female spayed.
I missed this info...there is no proof of a shunt...I would not be overly concerned until I got a vet report.

DvlshAngel985 06-24-2010 05:08 PM
This is an awful situation. It's a real shame that the owner will not speak to you. As a pet parent, you'd be the first to know something is wrong, and you'd be the person I would consider all options with. I hope all is well and your new litter is healthy. I hope that new owner gets off their high horse and talk to you. That's just not fair!

bjh 06-24-2010 05:15 PM
I would not have the female spay either at this point. It seems odd that the people will not contact you or give you more information. I have heard of vets before claiming a pup had a liver shunt and later when they go to do surgery there is no shunt. I would want to see all the puppies records from the vet. How old was this pup when you sold it? I hope everything works out for you.

DvlshAngel985 06-24-2010 05:18 PM
I meant to say, if you were my breeder and I was the pet parent. Bjh, you're so right. That is just odd.
How many complaints to we see on YT of new parents complaining of bad breeders. This one is reverse!

amcgriff88 06-24-2010 05:29 PM
It is a predicament Mary, and it is definitely not one I am taking lightly.

I will probably just allow the pregnancy and take the hit myself if I have another puppy with liver shunt. And you are all right about it being hard to make any decisions without having vet records in front of me.

I know when I have had problems with any of my other animals, my Airedale had problems with his hips from growing too fast, I let the breeders know first thing. They may not be vets but they are 'specialists' so to say in the breed that they are dealing with, and if they don't know the right information, they know someone that will. Or at least most breeders are that way, and I would do anything I could for the pups of my litters.

Bjh and dvlsh, you are right and thank you ALL for your support and help.
What breaks my heart is that I know the owners of this pup must be saying bad things about me and I had and still have no intentions of screwing anyone over.

Mardelin 06-24-2010 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcgriff88 (Post 3175216)
It is a predicament Mary, and it is definitely not one I am taking lightly.

I will probably just allow the pregnancy and take the hit myself if I have another puppy with liver shunt. And you are all right about it being hard to make any decisions without having vet records in front of me.

I know when I have had problems with any of my other animals, my Airedale had problems with his hips from growing too fast, I let the breeders know first thing. They may not be vets but they are 'specialists' so to say in the breed that they are dealing with, and if they don't know the right information, they know someone that will. Or at least most breeders are that way, and I would do anything I could for the pups of my litters.

Bjh and dvlsh, you are right and thank you ALL for your support and help.
What breaks my heart is that I know the owners of this pup must be saying bad things about me and I had and still have no intentions of screwing anyone over.
You know what they say a bad breeder is not one that has things happen in their breeding practice, but that doesn't stand behind their breeding.

I'm not seeing that from you at all. You are making every attempt to make things right. Another recommendation, have your vet attempt to contact their vet. Most will respond to one another as a courtesy.

Brooklynn 06-24-2010 05:54 PM
I think you are being very responsible and handling this very well. Unfortunately the owner of the pup that you think has liver shunt is not giving you much and I'm so sorry.
Now if you knew for sure the puppy does/did have shunt I personally would spay the bitch even at 5 weeks simply because I wouldn't risk the chance of having a liver shunt baby. I'm more attached to the mom at this point and not the babies. My concern is always first the bitch, babies second and then future homes. I will always put the bitches well being before a litter of pups.
But I feel for you and yes it's a very difficult position to be in and a decision for you and your vet. Please keep us posted.
Donna

Brooklynn 06-24-2010 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3175190)
I would not have the female spay either at this point. It seems odd that the people will not contact you or give you more information. I have heard of vets before claiming a pup had a liver shunt and later when they go to do surgery there is no shunt. I would want to see all the puppies records from the vet. How old was this pup when you sold it? I hope everything works out for you.
In regards to shunt, if you do the scintgraphy (mispelled)...and it shows a shunt then it's more than likely a shunt. You can't go on BATS alone, further testing is involved. The less evasive way is the Protein C test and then the dye...which is more accurate than a sonogram. There are good vets out there! I have two wonderful vets in my area that I would trust to the fullest!!

Donna

amcgriff88 06-24-2010 06:29 PM
Thank you Mary. I really appreciate that.

Donna, I will talk to the vet and see what the risks of spaying the bitch are and use that to help my decision. Because you are very right, my female's health and safety will always come first. And I am worried about how spaying her now could affect her.

Brooklynn 06-24-2010 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcgriff88 (Post 3175300)
Thank you Mary. I really appreciate that.

Donna, I will talk to the vet and see what the risks of spaying the bitch are and use that to help my decision. Because you are very right, my female's health and safety will always come first. And I am worried about how spaying her now could affect her.
Honey, I really feel for you and it's not an easy decision. I'm speaking from experience on spaying a pregnant bitch and everything was fine but that is my experience. I commend you for your concerns and being a responsible breeder. Kudos! It's not easy what you are going through. Please keep us posted.

Donna

amcgriff88 06-24-2010 06:48 PM
Thank you.
I will do that.

amcgriff88 07-25-2010 08:30 PM
Hi everyone.
I know it has been a few weeks but I told you I would keep you posted. We decided to keep the litter and she had 4 pups. They are all doing really well and so has mom until today, she has vomitted a few times this evening. The puppies are two weeks old. Anyone else have problems with this before? I am keeping an eye on her and calling the vet first thing in the morning.
Alyssa


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