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-   Breeder Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/)
-   -   Question for breeders? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/206321-question-breeders.html)

k Owensk9 06-17-2010 10:04 AM
I don't do testing--but if a yorkie produces problems it is never bred by me again ! I always have pups vet checked before placing them and IF any problem is caught I don't breed the parents again. Thats one advantage of having your own breeding stock is knowing the bloodlines--bad legs run in some bloodlines--as well as liver shunt---I steer clear ! I usually save my girls back and buy new males--some work out and some don't---but I can honestly say I don't have bad legs. There is always the posibliity of buying a male with bad legs --but so far so good ! But this is why I always get vet checks before selling puppies. And if a pup developed something bad after placing I would ask for Vet reports-x-ray etc. but I'd refund the money in full and if the person wanted to keep the puppy that would be fine with me. How do you other breeders work ?? Would you do the same ?

Lorraine 06-17-2010 11:08 AM
Unfortunately health issues don't always show up with young puppies. I like to keep in touch with any puppy owners, easy to do as I don't ship.
Of course I would do the right things should something come up.
No i would not breed the parents again.

Nancy1999 06-17-2010 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3166407)
I don't do testing--but if a yorkie produces problems it is never bred by me again ! I always have pups vet checked before placing them and IF any problem is caught I don't breed the parents again. Thats one advantage of having your own breeding stock is knowing the bloodlines--bad legs run in some bloodlines--as well as liver shunt---I steer clear ! I usually save my girls back and buy new males--some work out and some don't---but I can honestly say I don't have bad legs. There is always the posibliity of buying a male with bad legs --but so far so good ! But this is why I always get vet checks before selling puppies. And if a pup developed something bad after placing I would ask for Vet reports-x-ray etc. but I'd refund the money in full and if the person wanted to keep the puppy that would be fine with me. How do you other breeders work ?? Would you do the same ?
Do you sell on open or limited registration?

k Owensk9 06-17-2010 12:07 PM
I sell limited on most pups but do sell some show prospects with full registration---but all my pups are guaranteed for health !

CJxDanielle 06-17-2010 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3166407)
I don't do testing--but if a yorkie produces problems it is never bred by me again ! I always have pups vet checked before placing them and IF any problem is caught I don't breed the parents again. Thats one advantage of having your own breeding stock is knowing the bloodlines--bad legs run in some bloodlines--as well as liver shunt---I steer clear ! I usually save my girls back and buy new males--some work out and some don't---but I can honestly say I don't have bad legs. There is always the posibliity of buying a male with bad legs --but so far so good ! But this is why I always get vet checks before selling puppies. And if a pup developed something bad after placing I would ask for Vet reports-x-ray etc. but I'd refund the money in full and if the person wanted to keep the puppy that would be fine with me. How do you other breeders work ?? Would you do the same ?
How can you be guaranteed your lines are healthy if you don't do health testing? Could be something way back. I have a friend that breeds Chihuahuas with her mom in Australia and they didn't know a girl they bought from a particular line had bad patellas until it popped up in the sister a year later. They of course didn't breed their dog from fear of passing on such genetics.

Can I ask why you don't do health testing before breeding? It seems like you'd want to health test so you won't end up having to have a puppy with a problem at the next vet visit. And what happens to said puppy if it does have a problem? Do you sell it anyways?


And to the Op, I pretty much agree with everyone else. Although some "breeders" can get pretty snippy and not award you the price of the puppy (or anything really) if you don't have a guarantee (i dunno if you do or you don't i don't think I read that you do). But guarantee or no guarantee you should be awarded full price of the puppy and the parents should be spayed.

jp4m2 06-17-2010 12:45 PM
I'm in a situation now that is similar to this issue.....My Jack was diagnosed with kidney disease in Feb....I haven't contacted the breeder yet about this partly because I'm well past the one year health guarantee.....How does a person know if this was genetic or not?

k Owensk9 06-17-2010 12:54 PM
I've had my bloodline for 15 to 20 years---I don't get bad legs ! I may one day buy a male that has or produces bad legs--but I don't get them now ! I don't think any amount of testing can Guarantee perfect pups. But if your true to never selling-producing-passing on problems. Finally you can breed out any problems---yorkies are bred to be ratters and barn dogs---not low blood sugar--cream puffs. If you breed for health and not just looks you get a well rounded fisty dog. And hopefully healthy as horses ! That's my aim---healthy-- good movement ---happy puppies and adults. If I did get a pup less than healthy I'd find it a forever home and place it FREE ---NO PAPERS ! And the Adults that produced it would be taken out of my breeding program !

CJxDanielle 06-17-2010 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3166551)
I've had my bloodline for 15 to 20 years---I don't get bad legs ! I may one day buy a male that has or produces bad legs--but I don't get them now ! I don't think any amount of testing can Guarantee perfect pups. But if your true to never selling-producing-passing on problems. Finally you can breed out any problems---yorkies are bred to be ratters and barn dogs---not low blood sugar--cream puffs. If you breed for health and not just looks you get a well rounded fisty dog. And hopefully healthy as horses ! That's my aim---healthy-- good movement ---happy puppies and adults. If I did get a pup less than healthy I'd find it a forever home and place it FREE ---NO PAPERS ! And the Adults that produced it would be taken out of my breeding program !
Thats what I'm saying, you want to breed for health so why not health test your dogs? Why take the chance to produce a problem instead of taking the measures to prevent the problem and do the testing. "Bad legs" aren't the only thing effecting yorkies you know, there are other diseases out there that can be detected with health testing.

Then you won't have to risk a puppy by breeding a dog that hasn't been health tested. Even yorkies who are still ratters and "barn dogs" should be health tested. If not then how can you insure it is health enough to do it job properly?

k Owensk9 06-17-2010 02:27 PM
My way has worked for years I'll stick with it !

CJxDanielle 06-17-2010 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3166635)
My way has worked for years I'll stick with it !
You say so. Doesn't mean its helping the breed at all....

Nancy1999 06-17-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3166635)
My way has worked for years I'll stick with it !
Nobody is telling you that you have to change it, but it does sound like you are recommending it, and this is what I have a problem with. Breeders are always saying they "know" their lines, and this means different things to different people. Many health risks are associated with the recessive gene, and that means they may not show up, but you will be passing it along, so just knowing the line isn't enough. According to the YTCA:

Quote:
Prevention of the disease is only possible through genetic means. Affected animals should not be bred. Breeding stock should have their hips X-rayed to insure that they are not affected with mild LPD, the symptoms of which went unnoticed during the dog's adolescence. Extreme caution should be used when considering breeding animals that have produced LPD, or have LPD affected littermates.


Inheritance: Autosomal recessive
An autosomal recessive disorder means two copies of an abnormal gene must be present in order for the disease or trait to develop. I hope Yorkietalk can help breeders become better breeders, not just make everyone feel "good" about their breeding program.

Mardelin 06-17-2010 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJxDanielle (Post 3166528)
How can you be guaranteed your lines are healthy if you don't do health testing? Could be something way back. I have a friend that breeds Chihuahuas with her mom in Australia and they didn't know a girl they bought from a particular line had bad patellas until it popped up in the sister a year later. They of course didn't breed their dog from fear of passing on such genetics.

Can I ask why you don't do health testing before breeding? It seems like you'd want to health test so you won't end up having to have a puppy with a problem at the next vet visit. And what happens to said puppy if it does have a problem? Do you sell it anyways?


And to the Op, I pretty much agree with everyone else. Although some "breeders" can get pretty snippy and not award you the price of the puppy (or anything really) if you don't have a guarantee (i dunno if you do or you don't i don't think I read that you do). But guarantee or no guarantee you should be awarded full price of the puppy and the parents should be spayed.
While health testing is what reputable breeders should and do. It never guarantees that health issues will not appear. Tests only prove the breeding dogs do not have said afflictions, but it doesn't gurantee they aren't carriers. There is no genetic marker telling you your dog is clear.

CJxDanielle 06-17-2010 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3166698)
While health testing is what reputable breeders should and do. It never guarantees that health issues will not appear. Tests only prove the breeding dogs do not have said afflictions, but it doesn't gurantee they aren't carriers. There is no genetic marker telling you your dog is clear.
Thats true, but wouldn't you rather have a breeder that atleast did all the health test and took precautions rather than a breeder that doesn't do anything at all (like the person I was quoting in that post).

Mardelin 06-17-2010 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJxDanielle (Post 3166701)
Thats true, but wouldn't you rather have a breeder that atleast did all the health test and took precautions rather than a breeder that doesn't do anything at all (like the person I was quoting in that post).
Absolutely. However, there are breeders and breed websites that list a multitude of tests they say are performed, even tests that aren't pertinent to the breed. Giving the public a false sense of security.

My statement is only expanding and giving an insight to breeding. As in Liver Shunt, it can lay dormant for 9 generations, dogs testing clear of the disease. Then bam, the right or wrong two dogs (having been bile acid tested, and all the right tests performed) being bred and a shunt pup is produced. Breeding is a crap shoot, a scarey one. But, a responsible breeder, even though having the necessary tests performed, is one that will stand by their breeding. An unscrupulous breeder may still test, but should some ugly disease rear it's ugly head, will tell the puppy buyer, well I tested and it's never happened, so I'm not taking responsibility.

In other words a contract is only as good as the two people signing it.

CJxDanielle 06-17-2010 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3166743)
Absolutely. However, there are breeders and breed websites that list a multitude of tests they say are performed, even tests that aren't pertinent to the breed. Giving the public a false sense of security.

My statement is only expanding and giving an insight to breeding. As in Liver Shunt, it can lay dormant for 9 generations, dogs testing clear of the disease. Then bam, the right or wrong two dogs (having been bile acid tested, and all the right tests performed) being bred and a shunt pup is produced. Breeding is a crap shoot, a scarey one. But, a responsible breeder, even though having the necessary tests performed, is one that will stand by their breeding. An unscrupulous breeder may still test, but should some ugly disease rear it's ugly head, will tell the puppy buyer, well I tested and it's never happened, so I'm not taking responsibility.

In other words a contract is only as good as the two people signing it.
Ok! Now I see what you are talking about!
Thanks for clearing that up for me :D


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