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Question about lineage When someone advertises their dogs as having several champions in their line, but it's farther back than the three gneration pedigree AKC gives you when you register, is it relevant? Is it false advertising? I'm just curious. Although I understand that genetics from several generations back will give some input to future puppies, I thought it was sort of irrelevant if there are champions, say 5 or 6 generations back? Just curious what the general opinion is out there. thanks! Deb |
Nope. At that point, any traits that those CHs are passing down have become so diluted that they really aren't contributing much to the resulting pups. It's very misleading. That's why it floors me to see people advertise dogs from CH Lines when there may only be one CH 4 or 5 generations back. |
Most purebred dogs have champions in their background. When looking for a responsible breeder, you want to see champions in the first couple generations - parents and grandparents. That will tell you that your breeder is carefully breeding to the standard and your puppy will grow up to look like a Yorkie is supposed to. Advertising "champion lines" is an advertising ploy just like "teacup" is. Champions 5 or 6 generations back mean nothing. The one that always tickles me is "15 champions in background!", when they go way back and count them up! It reminds me of the ads for insurance salesmen and the like when they advertise 25 years experience. Then you find out they have combined the years of experience and their six sales people have less than 5 years experience each! |
thank you! That's exactly what I thought and have read in the past. I knew some of the experienced show breeders on here would help me to clear this up in my mind. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, even though the answer was obvious. I'm always surprised when I see "37 champions in his/her line", etc... Have a great day... deb |
One more point... remember that there are 4 sides and 3 generations of lineage to look at for one dog. (correct me if I'm wrong) Sire Sire's Sire Sire's Grand Sire Sire's Great Grand Sire Sire's Dam Sire's Grand Dam Sire's Great Grand Dam Dam Dam's Sire Dam's Grand Sire Dam's Great Grand Sire Dam's Dam Dam's Grand Dam Dam's Great Grand Dam |
It is not false avertizing to state the pedigree contains champion stock..but IMO unless it is in the first 3 gens..DOG is the first, parents second and Grandparents are the third gen...it really doesn't add to the value of the dog. Most Yorkies have champions in their line if you go back far enough. ALso, I have seen many champion-sired puppies I would not pay more $500 for..a few I would take for free and give them to a nice pet home. |
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I have seen people count up champions on a 7 generation pedigree. You can really find a lot of champions doing it that way.:rolleyes: |
Great question, and wonderful answers, I've always thought that when someone wrote "championed sired" on the website, it was similar to saying "teacups" "doll faced" and "teddy bear", in other words, a marketing ploy. I've even seen mixed breed breeders bragging about having a champion in the background! |
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Debbie aka Mother to 4 human kids, 4 doggies, and 3 horses! you need to add this: [/SIZE][/FONT] to the last of you signature. |
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thanks Nancy. And thanks for everyone's input. I'm always trying to learn more about this breed that I fall in love with more everyday... deb |
Great thread! :thumbup: |
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Now I have a questions for those breeders and exhibitors of Yorkies... I notice when I see àdds here for puppies for sale. I never ever see the full registered name of the sire and dam. This strikes me as odd. With my other breed and our list, when we talk about puppies, and or winning new Ch`s or Obedience titles, we always enter the full registered name of our dog and often with their call name as well. This is so we can all on the different pedigree websites look up the lineage etc. Why is it not done here... if you say AKC champion sired. give me the full registered name of the AKC champion and I can look that champion up on the website, and also their pedigree... Curious |
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Good question gemy. I *believe* that it's actually a rule here that if you post a dog as being from a CH dam or sire, that you HAVE to post the name of the parents. So if it's not being done...well... I may be wrong on that... |
Yep, just checked. It IS a rule in the For Sale section. If you list a Yorkie having a Champion dam or sire, you must list the dam and sire's name as well as the registration (AKC, UKC, etc) of the Champion. |
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They actually just updated the rules last week to state that first and last name had to be listed... I'm sure they don't comb every single thread looking for infringements either. I try to report it when I see it and assume they'll get with the poster and let them correct it. |
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When you read ads advertising champion lines, the other important question is who put the champions on what dogs? Is the seller in the show rings showing their dogs and putting Ch's on them? Or have they gotten a hold of something that has ch.'s in the background and therefore their knowledge would be very limited about quality etc as they are not hands on in the show rings learning the standard and what makes a good quality show dog. |
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Yes very true. But champion lines as has been stated before is not the same thing as the sire and dam being a CH I'm going to look up some of those adds to see some examples. I could right now breed my Razzle. and sell pups "from champion lines" as both his parents are champions. He has yet to earn his own championship, and Razzle is not his official registered name with either the AKC or the CKC. It is Rigair Sir Razzle Dazzle. If he were to be bred right now be4 he has finished and I or the breeder wanted to post his pups for sale: I would say: 3 beautifull - Pups for sale - Sire: Rigair Sir Razzle Dazzle Dam: Rigair La Dolce Vita CH CD These are Canadian bred dogs and registered with the CKC and AKC. Note: no title yet after RAzz man's name. And titles after the dam - so as a potential buyer you would know that only the dam has her championship at this point. But you should be able to look up both the lineages and see all the Championships in the background. Please note this is Only an example - Razz man has not been bred to anyone yet |
awh I see the form doesn't set up the question to ask for the full registered names of dam or sire. so ergo it isn't filled out. Strange that the form wouldn't have covered this very basic of information |
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I think it is wrong when a breeder states "Champion Lines" and the champions are way back - past the 3rd generation. What they are trying to do is take some credit for the hard work someone else did to help sell their pups. And in reality misleading the consumer/buyer, since the champions way back are not really contributing much. Many buyers do not know this. It is what someone has done with the line once they got it. If they introduced substandard dogs to it - it brings the quality way down. And since one is not showing now - how are they sure what is there. JMO I have seen many a good lines go to waste and distroyed by a new breeder not breeding correctly and the puppies are no longer to standard - in fact way off! And the buyer is thinking since there are champions in the lines they are getting a nice quality puppy - and this is Wrong! |
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Gail - I think too, that if someone is advertising their pups here, they should Not be able to list how many champions in pedigree (since one could use a 5 or 7 generation or more and make it look good when it is not). Listing it with a 3 generation pedigree would be acceptable. And only list champion pedigree if the parents and/or gandparents are champions With their registered names. This way no one is mislead. |
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