Lepto Vaccine
 

I'm posting here because I think breeders will be more likely to know the answer to this.

Just wondering if there are any articles/studies (preferably from vet schools, etc.) that link the lepto vaccine (not the disease....the vaccine) to high liver enzymes, high bile acids, and/or liver damage of any kind. I thought I had read that there was some research going on at A&M, but wouldn't know where to begin to look online.

Thanks :)

i think all vaccines affect the liver as everything is processed through the liver

Lepto is most known for causing anaphylactic shock

see this link

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/DrMcCluggage.pdf

Thanks for the article. I've got a second set of puppy shots coming up, and I've been syking myself up for the " No Lepto, No Corna" shot with my vet. I know I can just take my pup and leave, but I don't want to come across as a "know it all" pet owner.

They do just as all drugs can, but I think I remember some info coming from a YT member about research into lepto vaccines and their relation to liver shunt or high bile acids or something.

Ellie did go into shock after a lepto vaccine. It was very, very serious and we are blessed that we were close enough to her vet office at the time to get her back quickly.

That is very interesting, I too would like to know. I never give any of mine lepto, too risky.

are you on the yahoo groups for liver shunt / mvd? Maybe it is in the links there - let me know if you are not and i can go check it out for you

vaccine1.htm

here is some info on vaccines

and her is jean dodds recommendation so you can discuss with vet

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

i will find the info about corona as well as that is not necessary

here is more info

Vaccinating Dogs: What Your Vet Hasn't Told You

Crystal - you might contact the following member..she might know:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/member.php?u=27530

yeah she is involved with jean dodds rabies challenge

Only reference I could find:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...s-vaccine.html see post #5

Maybe email Dr Dodds...

Thanks :)

I've worked at 2 vet clinics--the last one, the Vet raised yorkies-we used Pfizer vaccines and started with the DHLPPCV at 6 weeks, boostered it every 4 weeks until 18-20 weeks--in all the many litters of pups we did, we didn't have any allergic reactions. Lepto is a nasty disease and can kill your pet--most allergic reactions show within an hour--so schedule your tyke early in the morning and hang at the clinic to make sure there won't be any reaction(and if there is, you are there and it can be treated right aways). The clinic I work at now-she uses a DAP vax(which is a 3 year) and separate lepto, Bord, and 3 yr Rabies--my girls weigh 4.2lbs and 3.8 lbs--they got all 4 vaccines at the same time this week, all is well. Was it in the back of my mind--4 shots is alot at one time?? Yes-but I've seen what lepto and not vaccinating for it can do to an 80+lb lab, I can't imagine it in a 4 lb yorkie and what the outcome may be. I think it's a personal decision--but know that we've seen alot more cases of lepto and if your vet thought it wasn't in your pet's best interest-they wouldn't reccommend it. Good luck to all.

i have to say some vets do their homework some do not so i do not necessarily agree that just because the vet says you need it you need it. As some vets say you need the dental vaccine and you do not.

The lepto vaccine does not cover all strains and there are many strains of lepto and in the link i gave from a vaccination expert it says the cases they are seeing of lepto is not the strain that is in the vaccine so in a toy breed i would not take the chance. The chance of getting lepto less likely than the chance of the dog having a reaction to that vaccine. It also depends on the dog and where they live and what their life style is.

we just had a dog die on here from a 4 in 1 and the vet has been in practice for 40 years and this dog had a previous reaction to a vaccine a year ago and still did a yearly vaccine when vets are doing every 3 years or titering so not all vets are keeping up with the times. Pet owners need to educate themselves to be an advocate for their dog.

I personally would not vaccinate for lepto, corona, or lyme and i have titered for parvo distemper for 5 years now and my dogs still have enough vaccine in them and show positive titers after that many years.

:thumbup:

I know the vets in my area are aware and will Not give lepto for yorkies or any toy breed due to its reaction.
I asked my vet how Lepto is contacted, and he stated is is caused when animals drink from contaminated water in which cow urine can go in to. In my case, since my dogs do not go outside nor drink from ponds where cows are their chances of getting Lepto is small.
Here is a link about Lepto information since I think it is needed:
Leptospirosis Facts

this was very interesting - vets get titers but then they are controversial for dogs ??

this just came up on my vet group you may want to check it out - i have not read it yet

Vaccinations & Vaccines - QA Viewer

SOme vets will insist you get the lepto injection. As a puppy owner you have the right to make your own decision since it is not mandatory.
I recommend you do not, at least not in the first two vaccines.
I had a puppy leave approximately 3 yrs ago. I recommended lepto not be given. But the puppy owners vet was insistant and the owner did not want to argue with a vet. THe vaccine was given and the puppy had a reaction within two hours.. Seizure activity. THe puppy was saved, and the reaction may have been rare but the advice I was given long ago I still follow. I ask lepto not be given.

I don't give nor recomment Lepto or Corona shots. A dog can also get it from possum urine by them going to the bathroom in the backyard...I know this because a friend of mine's yorkie contracted it but was ok after antibotics...
My vet has no problem with what vaccines I request. I also give 1/2 shots on my pups. I have a great vet that listens to me as a breeder ;)

Donna

Excellent post!
I give mine the lepto shot (solo) as well, due to the current outbreaks in our area. I can, most definitely, understand the concern surrounding the shot in respect to the anaphylactic reaction that it produces.

However my interests lie in the undiagnosed cases where animals have the disease without their owners knowledge. In these cases, the infectious spirochetes target the liver and kidneys specifically, and in numerous cases do irreparable damage to both these organs. The Michigan 2007 study documented 25% of their control group of pups, which did not have the vaccination, still had acquired antibodies; which means that these pups had been exposed to leptospirosis without the owners knowledge, and without treatment.

My queries and research currently, have been directed into questioning the abnormal quantity of cases of Liver/Kidney disease which are being diagnosed in our pups do to unknown reagents. Could in fact, lepto be the underlying cause of the explosion of these two chronic diseases? To date, the leading cause of kidney failure in dogs is CIN (Chronic Interstitial Nephritis), and CIN is one of the major chronic illnesses perpetrated by the Leptospirosis infection.


[QUOTE=dwerten;3100929]this was very interesting - vets get titers but then they are controversial for dogs ??

Thanks for posting, definitely an interesting view! Will have to research their site.

Ellie Mae, I have been researching through the AVMA archives to try and find any clinical research documenting permanent disabilities caused by the vaccine, however, as of yet I have not.

Here's something I found about the duration of immunity with the lepto vaccine.

"2. The commonly used vaccine only contains serovars Lepto. canicola, and Lepto icterohaemorrhagiae, and no cross protection is provided against the other three serovars diagnosed in Texas. Newer vaccines containing Lepto pomona, and Lepto rippotyphosa are available but the duration of immunity is less than one year. To provide protection for a dog against Leptospirosis would require two vaccines with four serovars twice per year".

From this link...

Texas Vet sues due to over vaccination of dogs and cats

My Vet doesn't give Lepto to small breed dogs. It is too much of a risk that it will cause a problem. The vaccine doesn't even contain all strains, and it doesn't last more than 6 months.

[quote=lil fu fu girl;3104315]
Excellent post!
I give mine the lepto shot (solo) as well, due to the current outbreaks in our area. I can, most definitely, understand the concern surrounding the shot in respect to the anaphylactic reaction that it produces.

However my interests lie in the undiagnosed cases where animals have the disease without their owners knowledge. In these cases, the infectious spirochetes target the liver and kidneys specifically, and in numerous cases do irreparable damage to both these organs. The Michigan 2007 study documented 25% of their control group of pups, which did not have the vaccination, still had acquired antibodies; which means that these pups had been exposed to leptospirosis without the owners knowledge, and without treatment.

My queries and research currently, have been directed into questioning the abnormal quantity of cases of Liver/Kidney disease which are being diagnosed in our pups do to unknown reagents. Could in fact, lepto be the underlying cause of the explosion of these two chronic diseases? To date, the leading cause of kidney failure in dogs is CIN (Chronic Interstitial Nephritis), and CIN is one of the major chronic illnesses perpetrated by the Leptospirosis infection.


Thanks everyone. I may have asked Kris this question before. I do know I got a whole bunch of emails with info from her, but i don't think my answer is in there. I'm pretty sure the answer isn't printed anywhere. It was just word of mouth. Could be totally wrong, but may have been bjh that said something about it.

This is very interesting and is because of this type of thing that I won't say to not get it. But it is because of the experiences like I had that I won't say get it either. It's a very personal choice.

I was just wondering because while Ellie wasn't the healthiest dog ever and had never had bloodwork pre lepto reaction, after that is when we bile acids tested and there was a problem. We are about 95% sure there is no shunt and also pretty sure there is no MVD unless it's localized. So just curious about it.

My very first yorkie almost died from a reaction she had to the lepto vaccine. I would never allow a vet to give that shot to any of my dogs or pups. Unless you know your at risk, its not worth it and in my opinion not needed depending on your lifestyle and where you dog/pup goes.

Sorry, I just quoted myself, but here's the content of the link:

Crystal,

I recall this being talked about my a member in Mass. I don't recall her name, I think it also started with M. She is a breeder. In fact, I think she sold a female just recently to a YT member here in NY (teacup....) :confused:

I am going to see if I can find out more ;)

YES YES YES!
Thank you :)
I think there were more posts on YT about this.

magicgenie is who I think may have some insight and info for you regarding research done with Lepto and Liver Issues :D

I would also check with England google...

I'm interested in this too---
 

I have to go back on some old posts to see who it was on YT who said something that led me to seriously start curtailing vaccines with my own dogs. I don't remember who or if she's even still active here, but she posted something about having had a discussion with some Maltese breeders at a show and someone presented some theory about vaccines "balling up" in the liver. I'm not a medical person and don't know just what that means, but I tried at the time to get more info and didn't get very far. I'm following this thread in hopes something comes to light.