Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3331811)

Agree. Do you also own a Boerbel?

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3331928)

I thought it was rude when I saw posts with breeders rudely stating "if you haven't researched, you don't deserve a dog".

Originally Posted by Marilize (Post 3331963)

Do you mean a Boerboel? Lol, no... I'm not really keen on big dogs and those are huge! Plus I'm not that Afrikaans :p

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3331994)

Oh wow...I would consider it rude to tell someone they didn't deserve a dog too. (With the exception of people who abuse their dogs or mistreat them, of course...in that case, I think it would be a fair statement.)
I've never seen anyone here told that because they don't know what questions to ask and what to look for. Not deserving of a dog, no. Not fully prepared to make and educated decision, yes. I think there is a big difference there, between not 'deseriving' something, and not being prepared and knowledgeable. :) I wouldn't consider it rude at all to see someone say, 'hey, you should really hold off on trying to buy a dog until you've done a little more research on the breed.'

I would never expect someone to be looked down on because they are not rich and I don't think that Yorkies are indulgences that should only be afforded by those who are. However, they come at a price. There are expenses to cover. And I don't think that when looking for a breeder, the price you are willing to pay should be the main focus of your search. I think there are other aspects that are more important than price. One needs to be aware of what expenses are being covered--breeding stock, registration fees, show costs (if any), medical testing, vaccinations, supplies, etc. If you can't afford the price it takes to cover those expenses, you don't just 'settle' for a lesser dog that someone cut corners on...you face the reality that maybe a Yorkie just isn't in your price range at the time and save up until it is.

Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3332008)

Agree, and that is when they sould perhaps consider adopting a Rescue pup, either Yorkie or one of the thousands of other dogs waiting for a good home.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3331881)

Wow I'm really sorry but I think this is a little too much. Just because someone asked for the price first to see if it fits their budget does not mean that that they do not care for its health and the type of breeder you are. Because of breeders like this who react overly sensitive to certain questions I feel that most people just turn to petstores which promotes more puppymills. If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft, and educate what they might not know instead of being offended and turning down potential great owners so that they don't just go along with what everyone else does- buying from a pet shop.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3332019)

Selling for profit is an assumption you made without knowing how much I do sell my dogs for. And believe me they are much lower than what you pay for at a pet store. What I do sell my dogs for does not even begin to cover the costs, the required tests performed on each pup, vet checks, shots, proper feeding for dam and pups, rearing and socializing.

I'm not breeding dogs to sell, but for me, for my next Champion to add to my breeding program not to satisfy the pet market. I breed very minimally and the pups I do not keep have homes waiting for them before I ever proceed with a breeding.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332055)

Again, I never assumed you were making a profit. I was asking all breeders to not assume that they are only caring about money when that's the first question asked, not sell the puppies for profit (IF they are), and educate others who may not know the importance of buying from a good breeder. So please don't assume yourself that I assumed you were selling at a profit. I don't and I'm sure you are a great breeder! thus getting offended at normal questions because they ARE your babies. I was just informing you that as a buyer, asking "price" first does not always mean not caring about the health and the breeder facts, etc. I personally think if I did the background check first and the available puppies and it just sounded so RIGHT, I would be heartbroken if it did was over $1600~$2000 (my budget). Asking price first saves me time and heartache and by no means am I a bad mother to my yorkies.

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important. As you have said,there are many many other factors that are just as important. Even if the price seemed right, if the breeder does not seem "ethical" or reputable, I would not recommend to buy from the breeder.

shodanumac: I also agree. The expenses should be covered when selling a puppy, and if a buyer cannot afford it, then should definitely look to adopt.

I think some of you were overlooking my statements here. I was merely stating that as breeders you should teach buyers on the importance of buying from a good breeder, NOT turning on them because an uneducated buyer asked the wrong questions (ex: Price first). That would lead them to just go purchase from a place you all have voiced hard to get rid of.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3331928)

Thank you for the thorough answer. I think it may have answered all of my questions regarding the breeding costs. If a breeder does not sell for much profit, then I am by any means all for their set pricing even if it is high. If it exceeds any potential buyer's budget, they can probably find other breeders with less "champion-lines" and such so that they can find their right dog.

I am glad to know that you wouldn't judge a potential client from what they ask first. Most people are uneducated in this area, and for quiet some time I thought it was rude when I saw posts with breeders rudely stating "if you haven't researched, you don't deserve a dog". Just because a mother was not expecting a baby when she became pregnant does not mean that she will be a bad mother. Likewise, just be Howcause a family looking for a dog didn't know the "right set of questions" that won't tick them off, does not mean that they will be bad dog owners. In the end, what matters is that the puppies are placed in good homes and that general public is encouraged more and more to buy from caring breeders who are willing to inform them over pet stores.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332055)

Again, I never assumed you were making a profit. I was asking all breeders to not assume that they are only caring about money when that's the first question asked, not sell the puppies for profit (IF they are), and educate others who may not know the importance of buying from a good breeder. So please don't assume yourself that I assumed you were selling at a profit. I don't and I'm sure you are a great breeder! thus getting offended at normal questions because they ARE your babies. I was just informing you that as a buyer, asking "price" first does not always mean not caring about the health and the breeder facts, etc. I personally think if I did the background check first and the available puppies and it just sounded so RIGHT, I would be heartbroken if it did was over $1600~$2000 (my budget). Asking price first saves me time and heartache and by no means am I a bad mother to my yorkies.

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important. As you have said,there are many many other factors that are just as important. Even if the price seemed right, if the breeder does not seem "ethical" or reputable, I would not recommend to buy from the breeder.

shodanumac: I also agree. The expenses should be covered when selling a puppy, and if a buyer cannot afford it, then should definitely look to adopt.

I think some of you were overlooking my statements here. I was merely stating that as breeders you should teach buyers on the importance of buying from a good breeder, NOT turning on them because an uneducated buyer asked the wrong questions (ex: Price first). That would lead them to just go purchase from a place you all have voiced hard to get rid of.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332055)

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332055)

If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft,

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3332075)

Asking all breeders not to assume that when a buyer is asking about money that's their primary concern, well unless you're a breeder and interviewing potential new families and understand the averages of such a question.....well I don't think it is something to ask of breeders.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3332075)

Not overlooking your statements or assuming since you've quoted and addressed individual posts.

Asking all breeders not to assume that when a buyer is asking about money that's their primary concern, well unless you're a breeder and interviewing potential new families and understand the averages of such a question.....well I don't think it is something to ask of breeders. Most of us a pretty savy on how to read people and know how to determine when a puppy buyer is bargain hunting.

Most YTCA breeders primary concern when approached for a puppy is the puppy. Next is to educate. Most of us spend countless hours on the phone educating families on the breed and even if we don't have a puppy to place, we want the person to walk away from the conversation; armed with the all the best information to make the best possible choice in a breeder/puppy. Making the sale is not a priority.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3332103)

There is a saying that the cost of the dog is the least expensive part of pet ownership. If the up-front cost is what people are most concerned about, they definitely haven't given much thought to everything else. It always upsets me when people come on here and one of the first things they say is "I want a yorkie, but I can't afford the outrageous prices of the breeders around here, I only want to pay $400." Heck, I spent more than that during my first few well visits to the vet. Ideally, someone should have done some research BEFORE they start calling breeders. If some of them say it's a pet peeve of theirs to hear that first thing from a potential owner, I'm sure they have their reasons and years of experience to back it up. I think it's expecting a lot from them to tell them to try and educate people who couldn't be bothered to do some research first. JMO, but if price is the first consideration, thoughts of quality falls way down on the list.

Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3332154)

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3332153)

Mary I hear you! And I do spend hours on the phone educating about BRT;s. But still while there might be a flashing alarm sign in my head,m if the first question is about cost, and btw BRT's sell for $2500 and up for even a pet, I am much more concerned about who these people are, will they train, will they do the best as pet parents for this breed. And I do this education as well. Maybe because of the rare nature of my breed, I'm more used to people asking about the cost. Usally for most oncethey hear the cost, they go away. The danger for me, is if they say, umm okay when can I get one? That shivers me timbers. I've only bred once, and had the waiting list for Magic's pups. All folks I have met, who filled out the questionnaire, who are still in contact with me.

Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3332154)

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3332087)

In main I agree with your post. How-ever less champion "lines". less champions in the breeding pair, is not a solution for a Yorkie more reasonably priced for your budget. That solution is found in rescues, rehomes, etc.

If You Buy A Purebred dog, expect to Pay Top Dollar1 for it; and conversely expect for CH as breeding dam n sire, all the Health tests dog, a pup a prime example of the breed, with the best of health and the best of Health guarantee.

I do not support the idea, well if you only want a "Pet" it doesnt' matter about Ch's or health tests or some many other things. There is a right and wrong way to do things; quite simple really.

If you want a purebred, buy from reputable show breeders. Those that health test their pups, and stand behind them all the way. They will and should be there for you and your pup for the life of their pup. Mine are!

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332225)

I put it in quotes because I couldn't think on top of my head to what constitutes a higher priced yorkie from one reputable breeder to another. You are probably right and I wasn't trying to be factual here in how to find the healthiest yorkie. I apologize if I came off as if it was a fact. I was just trying to make a point though, that we should HELP uneducated buyers instead of turning your back on them and the confused buyer going straight to the pet shop.

I understand that none of you are trying to "SELL" your beloved dogs. I was suggesting that if an uneducated buyer came to you and said, how much are your yorkies? How about: "They are my babies! I can't just "sell" them to you without us first getting to know each other! (in a joking manner) May I ask you few questions? How well do you know about yorkies? How did you hear of us?"
instead of turning your back on someone and thinking they are no good because money is part of what you assume their priorities are. This was the whole point of my last few replies.

and I'm sure you know this too: you may not have really cared or known before owning a pet, but AFTER owning one you realize just how priceless they are. so just give these buyers time: once they bring your puppies home from a reputable breeder, they will become attached to them and won't trade them for anything in the world. I'm just saying, you can't expect uneducated buyers to know what YOU are feeling towards your babies just yet because they never seen them, or they never owned one before. They aren't connected to their future pets because they aren't connected like how mother is to a baby. They could be just as great dog owners but because they aren't connected, they probably do not have much feeling towards your baby as you do, thus the business "Monetary" talk. While it is not the most important, some people, pre-attachment to their pups, think it is as important.

I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, it's unreasonable for anyone to really say that I should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that I dont even know yet, thus going to a pet shop instead if I were an uneducated buyer. This is, of course, just a difference in opinion but this is how I feel with uneducated buyers, and that is the reason why I wanted the breeders to allow them time to learn instead of shutting out on them and labeling them as "unsuitable buyers".

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332225)

I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they? they could just turn to a pet shop instead then. This is, of course, just a difference in opinion but this is why I wanted the breeders to allow them time to learn instead of shutting out on them and labeling them as "unsuitable buyers".

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332225)

...
I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they? they could just turn to a pet shop instead then.
...

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3332236)

Even if someone isn't attached to a particular puppy, if they are attached to the idea of owning a pet they will make the adjustments necessary (including saving for one) in preparation for it. Saying "why should they?" is akin to saying that one shouldn't save up for a house or a car since they don't have one yet, therefore they aren't "attached". Pet shops, unfortunately, pander to the impulse buyers among us; no wait, a few bucks down and a convenient payment plan... Impulse buys are a big part of the reason so many dogs end up in shelters.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332225)

I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they?

Originally Posted by bellemarie (Post 3332270)

i've been quietly following this thread since it began (when it was a novel wee thread) but had to add something here...
i am very new to breeding (especailly compared to the exhibitor/breeders in this thread) and even i have learned already how to spot good and bad potential homes... it is usually pretty obvious on the 1st conversation, but i have been fooled by some right up until a few minutes before they leave my house on the first visit!
but from both perspectives, the comment quoted is just (imo) simply incorrect. i am planning on buying a puppy (its actually a standard poodle, but the same rules apply) from one of the best breed kennels in the uk (or very possibly even france). i will be wanting to buy Her in about 3 or so YEARS time- and am already taking into account all the costs.
so where the money is concerned, there is firstly, the price of the puppy, then the price of flying over to met the breeder and and with luck have her be happy i want one of her babies, then there is the price of going Back over to again (by plane or boat) and then the return trip via boat with little Kimber (yes, i have her name ready and waiting), not to mention all her classes, vet costs, grooming, food bills and everything else that goes with having another dog.
i would love to have her now, but i know that is unrealistic of me... i have a litter due in 2 months and am therefore currently adding to my vet fund account to cover it. even without having them due, i wouldnt want to run out to the 1st 'breeder' i found and buy the puppy in my current price range-
after all, anything worth having is well worth saving for! isn't it?

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk (Post 3332286)

I apologize if I am not being clear on these issues, but I am getting confused myself on why I am being misunderstood or misinterpreted. You are saving up for one because you are an educated buyer, and you are a dog lover. I was trying to state that, for an uneducated client, they would be LESS LIEKLY to save up for an "ideal dog", but yes of course they would have to save! to buy ANY dog, pet store dog or not, whichever they can meet first. how else would they afford a dog if they have no money?:confused:

Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3332154)

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.