? papers
 

i bought a puppy and the lady told me the mother and father has papers but she would not sell him with papers is there any way i could get papers for him thanks

AKC..no, but USA-CKC, ACA etc ..yes..

Yes, you can other registries but the breeder is no doubt selling you the puppy cheap because he/she is giving no papers and that is for a reason. My question would be why would you want to do your breeder like that? if you want a dog with papers then pay a little more and get one.

Why do you want the papers. the dog is what it is. Papers are just papers.

Hmmm...sounds a bit fishy to me. I would look for another breeder. You can get him registered with some of the lesser registries, but why bother? What would they really be worth then?

I certainly understand the pupose of wanting a dog that is registered. Has she given you a reason for why she won't allow you to register him? There could be a multitude of reasons for her decision--the key is, figuring out what they real reason is and if it's justifyable, or if there is something shady she's trying to hide.

when i agreed to buy the puppy she gave me a price then she told me if i wanted papers it would be more money when i went to pick him up 3 hours away.

No body said the dog is not what he is i was just asking if that is ok

The issue here is, you seem to be asking people how to go about getting papers without having paid for them.

If she sold him to you for less money 'without papers", then it would be unethical to register him.

Usually they are sold with papers, but the registration is limited so none of their off spring can be registered. but then people started to register them with other registries, so some breeders just don't give the papers at all and that eliminates that problem.

Bottom line is, you agreed to take him without papers for a lower price. So now it depends on how good your word is. If you wanted the papers you should have paid for them, or you should contact her and see if she will let you pay the difference now in order to get the papers.

Ahh...I see. I think I misread/misunderstood the situation. I didn't realize you'd already bought the dog.

It is not uncommon for a breeder to charge more for papers and/or breeding rights for the dog.

If you have already made an agreement with the breeder, and the agreement was to pay less for the dog and not get the registration papers, then you need to hold up to your end of the bargain, not try to get the dog registered anyway.

There should be no difference in price with or without "AKC" papers. When there is a difference in price it is whether the dog comes with Limited Registration (no breeding rights) or Open Registration (breeding rights)

Evidently this breeder is unscrupulous.....find another breeder.

Let me add....there are more important things to worry about....has this puppy been vet checked, shots update, a good representation of the breed, does he come with a minimum of a year guarantee?

No i didnt know about papers till i went to pick him up and she told me if i wanted papers it would be more money but she never said how much more
and for a agreement we never made one i never signed anything .
and all i was doing was asking a ? about them. i didnt mean to ruffle any bodys feathers.

Not ruffling feathers.

What you need to clarify with this person is what she meant about papers or no papers; breeding rights or not? Most of the time with this type of breeder, it is only a matter of money. But, keep in mind a good/reputable breeder would never sell a puppy with breeding rights to just anyone wanting to breed. Much more goes into that type of sale.

It's ok; you've brought up an important topic. Many breeders do this, and I believe it's because the dogs aren't even eligible to be registered. The cost of registration for the breeder is very cheap, something like $25.00 for the whole litter. Many breeders will tell buyers, it's much more like $200.00 and say, "Why do you want to register if you aren't going to breed or show?" This is often so you won't try to register the dogs yourself. It's important for buyers to register the dogs even if they aren't breeding or showing, it's a way of helping to keep breeders honest. Breeders who register with the AKC should be keeping accurate records of all the litters they have, and with you registering the dogs, they will have to do this. Also the AKC does inspection and DNA tests, if the breeder has so many litters a year, so a reputable breeder would register every litter. Shady breeders might not want to do that.

The breeder does have to give you the paperwork in order for you to register the dogs, I think you need a litter registration number, but if she sold the dogs as AKC, she should give you the number. After Joey's breeder gave me the paperwork, it was only $20.00 to register him. Here's the fee schedule. https://www.akc.org/reg/fee_schedule.cfm. I really think it's important for pet owners to become involved with the AKC, not just breeders.

I just want to add that I registered Joey on "limited registration", meaning he was registered, but he isn't allowed to produce any offspring that can be registered, in my opinion, this is the way a good breeder does it.

No feathers ruffled here...just trying to answer your question as best as we all can. :)

Sounds like the breeder should have explained the options to you in advance. Agreements don't have to be signed, but there was a mutual understanding reached between the two of you, whether you agree with it or not. Bottom line is, she wanted more money for papers, you didn't pay for them, so now the dog has none.
If you want papers so that you can register him, then you need to contact the breeder and discuss your options, pay the extra amount being asked. Otherwise, you are stuck without.
Simple enough.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

By paying the lower price and taking the puppy, you accepted the terms of NO papers. If you have changed your mind then you need to contact the breeder.

I think it is a bit unfair to call the breeder unscrupulous with so little information. Apparently she could have gotten the papers had she been willing to pay for them.

As I stated before, a breeder might do this to keep someone from registering with another registry in order to register the puppies. To my understanding, With NO papers they cannot register them with any registry.

She can still register puppies with other registries even though she has no papers, just not with the AKC, however, I would not suggest she does this.

The reason I believe that the breeder is unscrupulous is that the buyer says,
"when i agreed to buy the puppy she gave me a price then she told me if i wanted papers it would be more money when i went to pick him up 3 hours away. "

So the breeder told her yes the dogs were registered, and gave her a price, however, when she drove to the breeder's house, which was over three hours away, the breeder wanted more money than originally stated. The breeder should have made this clear over the phone, and it sounds like this wasn't told to her until she visited the breeder's house.

Yes, the breeder is unscrupulous.....offering a puppy without papers for one price and with papers another. As I stated before the only time there should be a difference in price is with breeding rights or without breeding rights. However, I'm writing in generalization terms, if one just wanted to breed, they'd breed anyway...papers or no papers.

You're right Nancy, yes you can register in another registry without papers. You can even do that with AKC, it is called a Q registry.....this type of AKC register is allowed when parents are in question......the Q is in place for 3 generations, then whalla......it goes away and you have an AKC registered dog. YTCA has a database in place with those dogs being registered in the Q registration....

I'm not really comfortable with breeders selling a dog for more just because it has breeding rights. I can understand selling a dog for more if it's a puppy that may be suitable for showing, but I don't think you can tell if a 12-week-old puppy is breeding material, can you, er maybe YOU can!

Don't really like the idea of Q registry, do you have some links, so I can learn more?

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't see where the OP says she got her pup for a cheaper price because of no papers.

But if that is the case, that both parents have registration papers and your new pup doesn't (either open or limited) something sounds fishy to me. Did the breeder give a reason for not giving you papers or did they just say, "$X more for registration?" To me, the information provided makes me think the breeder has 2 dogs that have limited registration (no permission to breed) and bred them anyway. The litter then is not qualified for registration with the AKC, but she could register the pups with a different registry.

See Posts #3 and #11 by the OP. She said that the breeder told her it would be more $$$ if she wanted the dog's papers.:)

I don't know what the breeder's reasoning for doing this was, but regardless, it should have been explained to the OP in advance, not mentioned for the first time when she got there to pick the dog up. Likewise, the point should have made a point to nail down such specifics in advance as well.

You didn't ruffle anyone's feathers here. You asked an excellent question!! :)

It's your breeder that everyone here is upset with. I see you're new, so let me just tell you that the people who have responded to you here are either excellent, respected breeders themselves or those (like me) who strongly support ethical breeders who believe in doing things the right way, and always in the best interest of the pups.

You've opened a good topic of discussion. Thank you!

This is a good topic. I'm new here as well. I DID get papers with my female puppy but have never filled them out. We have no intention of breeding her and are getting her fixed. Should we do the papers? Does it matter if we do not? I thought papers were only for if you breed them but like I said, I'm new so maybe I'm not understanding some other benefit to having papers? lol.

I understand what you are saying Nancy, as a breeding dog should have all the attributes of a show dog. But, realistically it happens all the time....Some breeders just sell one said puppy on open or limited and the only difference to them is the price......No, you can't tell at 12 weeks of age if the puppy is of breeding/show quality.....at 8 weeks you are just starting to look at them for personality/temperament.....that's why those that are showing hold on to the dogs they are assessing for longer periods of time.....6 months or more...things go off....toplines go off when they are growing....high in the rear, low in the front.....funky little things, most of the time they come back...but, then there is that one, that doesn't.

I think I sent you one....but, you can do a search on the AKC website for Q registration.

Reputable breeders will provide you papers on a pet puppy but, it will be on Limited Registration. Absolutely, do the papers. Pet owners should become more involved in the AKC.....

You know you can file a complaint with AKC if a breeder has one price with papers and another without. AKC wants all puppies to be sold with papers, the breeder can decide on limited or full, but they want papers to accompany the dog..

Wow! Pat....I learned something new......thanks,

Mary

I encourage pet owners to get involved the the AKC, I think the AKC needs to recognize the needs of pet owners as well as breeders. When pet owners start registering maybe the AKC will take some of our concerns more seriously and we will have a larger voice. Otherwise the AKC will listen to those that have the largest voice and that may be commercial breeders.

There was a breed near me in Md who did this...she was inspected once and had a folder full of papers for pups she had sold without papers. Inspector told her AKC policy was to give papers with each pup...and they were not happy with breeders who did not..he said he could make things dificult for her unless she followed the regulations..it cuts into AKC revenue if you think about it....but that was at least 10 yrs ago..so who knows now.

I think I will go read what AKC says about papers now...

I never thought about it that way. Kaji came with papers but I never sent them in since I got him fixed in his first week home. He has pretty bad LP so my dream of having him compete in agility trials went out the window. (At least I think you can do that) I never sent them in. I had a change of heart maybe a month ago, but then found that it would be $80 to register him since I waited so long. I should have done it sooner!