YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community - Need someone who has experience going after a breeder

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mommadog1

02-10-2010 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2995603)

Yes John, I already know that I am an idiot! I have beaten myself up plenty already, But go ahead and keep at it if you like. I do know now that there is no such thing as a Tea Cup, but when I was wanting a Yorkie, that is all you see. I have many dogs, but I have no experience with buying such an expensive one and have never had a Yorkie. So shoot me! I have an AKC Pom. and an AKC Lab. Before that all of my dogs have been rescue dogs. My life has been very stressfull and I really wanted an indoor small dog again. What is done is done, but be that as it may, this Puppy Mill Breeder has NO BUSINESS selling puppies like this. Yes, I am an idiot and made a mistake, but either way, I should be able to get some type of money from her to pay for these vet bills! Yes, Jen, from what I have learned Calif. does have a strict puppy Lemon Law. Her contract states no health guarantee except if I find it in like 24-48 hours. I have never, ever of all of my dogs in all of the years had any with problems like this. Why should I expect this? I did figure if I found out she had some genetic problem a year later, that wouldn't really matter because by that time they are your family and you would never give them up. Heck, Molly is now my family and I would now never give her up. I may be an ass John, but this breeder is a bigger one! I was actually sent to her by an old friend who has 4 Yorkies and has had them for over 20 years (the breed). I trusted she knew what she was talking about.

I actually did do some research on Yorkies and I did read that there is no such thing as a Teacup, but then you see others who say there is. Either way, I wanted a small Yorkie. I did look at Breeders in my area as well, I looked at and called plenty. I now have told several Yorkie owners there is no such thing.

I just came here to request a little help (even though I was an idiot), I don't really care to get bashed by you or anyone else. I do and have been doing plenty of that to myself already. But thanks anyway.

Your NOT and idiot!!! WE ALL make mistakes, forget what John said! Just focus on the helpful people.

CA lemon law trumps her so called guarantee or contract. Be sure to hold on to that though so you can show animal control (or whoever enforces this law) that she is not even following the state law.

It may not shut her down, but it's gonna sting like a bee when she has to give you your money back and vet fee's and then the fines she is going to get slapped with!

So call animal control and if they can't help they will be able to put you in touch with the right department. You don't have to go to court when there is lemon laws, I don't think any how...

mommadog1

02-10-2010 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2995664)

Here is the actual statue detailing the California lemon law. It pertains only to sellers who sold more than 50 animals the previous year.

http://www.theanimalcouncil.com/file...ection_Act.pdf

That has changed. It is now 3 litters or 20 dogs sold in the last 12 months:)

WAIS Document Retrieval
Sickly puppies can be returned - Los Angeles Times

livingdustmops

02-10-2010 08:21 AM

California Pet Lemon Laws

California's law falls hardest on sellers of unhealthy dogs, but hobby breeders do not fall under its provisions except for the extremely active ones. It applies to anyone who sold, transferred, or gare away two or more litters during the preceding calendar year.

Buyers have 15 days to document contagious or infectious disease, one year to document congenital or hereditary defects. The seller has 120 days to produce advertised registration papers. If the seller fails to do so, the buyer may return the dog for a full refund or keep the dog and receive a refund of 75 percent of the purchase price.

If the dog is proven to be ill or to have hereditary defects, the buyer is entitled to a replacement plus reimbursement for veterinary expenses related to certifying the dog's illness, up to the price of the dog including sales tax.

The buyer may also choose a refund plus reimbursement for veterinary expenses related to certifying the dog's illness, up to the price of the dog.

If the buyer elects to have the dog treated, the seller is required to cover up to 1 1/2 times the purchase price of the dog in veterinary expenses.

It is important to note that the cost of testing to certify a dog unhealthy could double what a seller is obligated to refund to the purchaser. This makes it very expensive to sell ill and defective dogs in California.

Read more: California Lemon Laws for Dogs

mismolly

02-10-2010 11:14 AM

Yes I do have a contract from her and it does not mention the Lemon law nor did she ever mention it to me and her contract states the opposite of what the Lemon Law here states.
As for giving Molly back, that is just not an option. I start crying just thinking about it. I have nursed many sick animals back to health since I was a young girl. I love animals and I would never give an innocent puppy back to the scum I bought her from!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2996942)

Your actually very lucky (besides sick puppy) due to the california puppy lemon law. Not many states even have them but CA is one, if not the best!!

California Lemon Laws for Dogs

Forget the BBB right now, and other reporting agencies and get the letter along with the pups vet report, and get it to her NOW. Mail it certified so she has to sign for it, also email her and CC yourself and another person you know.

I cannot find out who your supposed to get to enforce the lemon law but I would guess probably animal control.. Call them and make a report now as well, do not wait another minute. If she is also a USDA breeder, contact them as well.

Personally I would not keep the puppy. I would return it and enforce the lemon laws on her, get a full refund plus what she has to pay for the vet fee's. You may think keeping the puppy is saving it, but I think keeping it is going to be a hardship on you and your family. The puppy as well. The treatments for mange are long and time consuming to say the least.

Get your money back and then come here for help on finding a reputable breeder in your area. I KNOW there are many good ones in CA. You can also get a sick puppy from a small in home breeder too so you cannot go by that alone.

I went through heck with Pennie when I got her and I got her from a small in home/hobby breeder!! Pennie had giardia and it took 4 weeks to find that out because it is hard to see even at a lab. so you have to take stool in every other week for 3 weeks (3 tests) if the first 2 do not show anything. After the 3rd negative then that means they don't have it. Pennie showed positive with the 2nd stool giardia test.

She was sick from day 2. It started with her not wanting to eat, then not eating at all. I had to force feed her with a syringe for 5 weeks. It was horrible because she kept having hypoglycemia attacks, I had to feed her every 2 hours. She was 1.7 pounds the first day, I took her to my vet before I even went home with her.

She was a little thin. also she was 8 weeks old. I didn't know any better, and I should have, that these little pups need to stay with mom at least until 12 weeks. I would never have gotten a pup from her had I known this. Now of course I know and that will never happen again!

I noticed flaky skin when I picked her up and I kinda had a feeling it was skin mites (AKA walking dandruff).. And yep she had them. I think I would rather have fleas... I hate these things cus they always feed on ME...lol It seems like almost every pup I have bought has had them.

She had a BAD case of them and it took me 2 treatments to get rid of them. Then it took weeks to get rid of the flakes. And she lost a lot of hair. So by the time she was 4 months she had no hair on her chest and front legs and all the other hair was very sparse.

It is starting to grown back in, but it is going to take a long time because she lost so much.

Once she got on the meds for giardia within 12 days she was up walking around, 3rd day she was actually playing, never done that before. And by the 5th day (final day of treatment) she had done a complete 180. And now she eats like a piggy;)

I spent 1100.00 for her, and then another $1,000.00 on vet, tests, and special food. I got NOTHING back. She refused to give me my money back, went against her own contract/guarantee.

There is nothing I can do in WA state, we have NO lemon laws for puppies here. I could have taken her to small claims court and probably would have won but I just didn't want to mess with it. And the other thing, report her to animal control (they deal will all breeders and animal issues here). The just would have went out and checked out the dogs and place. But you cannot always tell if a pup is sick right away.

I am sorry I went on and on.. I have been scr*wed a few times buying dogs. Those were from breeders in other states. Now I only buy from local people I now know and trust, and if I were to have one shipped it would also be from someone I know very well. I know a lot more now then I did when I first started breeding 8 years ago. This local breeder looked great, had good record. The only red flag for me was the age of the pup being sold, and I didn't see the flag then.

Even with a contract in CA it has to go with what the lemon laws are or it's worth nothing.. Do you have one from her?

mismolly

02-10-2010 11:18 AM

Well since she now has Zs**tzu's (sp?) for sale and sold all her recent Yorkies and Maltese's and expects to also have more of those in a few months, I'd say her volume exceeds the required amount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2996981)

That has changed. It is now 3 litters or 20 dogs sold in the last 12 months:)

WAIS Document Retrieval
Sickly puppies can be returned - Los Angeles Times

mismolly

02-10-2010 11:22 AM

My children's health is NOT at risk in any way!!!!! And that being the case, there is also NO WAY that I would give her back to the filth I bought her from!!!! You are right, your comment does seem cold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies (Post 2996808)

I would talk to the breeder first and give her a chance to make it right.

This might sound cold but I would give the pup back and ask for a refund. No way would I risk my childrens health. With 3 "small" children a yorkie that tiny might not be right for your family. She could be seriously injured.

Ladymom

02-10-2010 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2997327)

Yes I do have a contract from her and it does not mention the Lemon law nor did she ever mention it to me and her contract states the opposite of what the Lemon Law here states.

Your breeder must comply with California's lemon laws no matter what her contract says. Contracts that do not comply with existing laws are void.

Cares4Dogs

02-10-2010 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2997340)

I've heard of mange, but had no experience with it so I looked it up to see what it was about. I didnt realize its scabies, which is really very common..at least where I live. Its about as common as lice and although it is contagous-it is very treatable. Your children can get scabies just by playin on the playground at school or at a park. Our city had a recent outbreak and everyone had a panic attack and it actually made CNN news. Just continue to take precautions with yourself and your children and follow advice on how to keep your home rid of it.

I'd request that the breeder refund you some of your vet expenses, but I also think that you should be fair and give the breeder the opportunity to rectify the situation. They might not even be aware that their puppies had a problem if nobody reported it to them and when the breeder said she thought it was just dry skin really makes me wonder if she's aware of it. In the same essence, they should be educated enough to know what mange is being that they are breeding dogs!! Ignorace is no excuse, but it could be possible they'd work with you to your satisfaction if given the opportunity.

You catch more flies with honey but if that doesnt work--slam them with the poop cuz flies sure do like that!

Good luck to you...I hope everything works out for you.

mommadog1

02-10-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2997327)

Well under the law you are allowed to keep her and still get money back, just not all of it. Please read the link I sent earlier that went right to the actual law. I don't blame you, I couldn't give up my Pennie after all I went through with her.

livingdustmops

02-10-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2997327)

Doesn't matter what her contract states...read the laws that have been provided to you.

No one is judging you but I would not have my children (I don't have any) touch her while she has mange..it very easily could spread to them. I doubt the lemon laws would pay for them.

mommadog1

02-10-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2997096)

California Pet Lemon Laws

It is important to note that the cost of testing to certify a dog unhealthy could double what a seller is obligated to refund to the purchaser. This makes it very expensive to sell ill and defective dogs in California.

Read more: California Lemon Laws for Dogs

It's much better to read the actual law and not how someone else interprets it like the site given above.

Testing costs: well that depends on the price of the dog. She has already had the tests done both of which are not that expensive. Coccidia can show up under the vet scope as well as mange mites.

"The buyer may also choose a refund plus reimbursement for veterinary expenses related to certifying the dog's illness, up to the price of the dog."

If she keeps the dog she can get back 75% of what she paid for the puppy as well as vet fee's.

I also want to add that is most definitely effects hobby breeders if they sell more then 2 litters a yea (or even give away), and most do.

You know how many breeders are getting through loopholes in CA? They are buying dogs and then reselling them for cheap to "guardian homes", who are required to allow the breeder use of the dog, male or female for her breeding program. I know of several breeders doing this, they do it in other states now as well so they don't have to get a breeding license.

mommadog1

02-10-2010 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly (Post 2997333)

Well since she now has Zs**tzu's (sp?) for sale and sold all her recent Yorkies and Maltese's and expects to also have more of those in a few months, I'd say her volume exceeds the required amount.

Oh I have no doubt she is well over the limit!!

mommadog1

02-10-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 2997399)

Actually it's not the same. Dogs and cats are infected by different types of mites than those which infect humans. Animals are not a source of spread of human scabies. Scabies on dogs is called mange.

When canine or feline mites land on human skin, they fail to thrive and produce only a mild itch that goes away on its own. This is unlike human scabies which gets worse and worse unless the condition is treated.

mommadog1

02-10-2010 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2997767)

Again, they cannot catch mange from dogs. They cannot live on humans.

mismolly

02-10-2010 05:20 PM

My children are in NO WAY touching her right now! I told them maybe in a month they can again. I won't even touch her! This is heartbreaking. My little Molly sits in her playpen and lays there all day with her softee e-collar on. I go over there and talk to her, I put on medical gloves whenever I touch her. At night, I put her in her crate and she sleeps in that in my bedroom over on the tile in my vanity area. The next day I wash all of her bedding. My ENTIRE house, carpets, couches, floors, bedding has been washed and/or vacuumed. I have even sucked up
and vacumed all of our mattresses and Molly doesn't even sleep on our beds. But she has layed on mine a bit and said goodnight to the kids at bedtime on theirs in the past. I have to say though, we have had her for almost 2 months and not a single one of us has had a single symptom. I hear it is a rash that starts as a red dot, itches like crazy and goes away on it's own. The mites do not breed on us, they eventually die. They prefer to stay on their host. Now that she has had the ivermectin, we are probably not going to get it since we haven't in all of this time. But to be safe, we are not touching her. I may in a week or so, put her on my lap over a towel and wear gloves. BUt I am told that I really do not need to do that. But, I am a germ freak and I saw that thing under the microscope. I just want this over with so that my poor little baby can feel loved again like usual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2997767)

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:54 AM.

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