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-   -   Spike has no papers...... (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/19566-spike-has-no-papers.html)

chipperdancing 10-20-2005 12:19 PM
Sorry, Sorry, Sorry!!!
 
I am so SORRY that I suggested Spike's owner go ahead and breed him!!! As soon as I could get myself untied from this post and stomp the bonfire underneath me out, I realized that I had made a dreadful mistake.
And, that even suggesting that Spike have a zillion tests run on himself and a unsuspecting surrogate female resulting in a 100% clean Bill of Health, I have now realized there is no doubt a remissive gene lurking in him that would skip his generation and yet leap forward to cause misery to thousands of future generations.
I now fully realize that without the ever precious AKC Registration, proving beyond a doubt his linage is without flaw, that little "no papers, no past" Spike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be a party to a controlled, in home breeding.
I want to thank the thousands of responsible Breeders out there who only sell AKC papered and flawless purebreds, Puppy Mills not included. And, I sincerely apologize to those responsible Breeders whom I unintentionally inflamed with my totally uninformed, uneducated, and ignorant suggestion.
:rain:
:fallen:

ytsirk27 10-20-2005 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipperdancing
I am so SORRY that I suggested Spike's owner go ahead and breed him!!! As soon as I could get myself untied from this post and stomp the bonfire underneath me out, I realized that I had made a dreadful mistake.
And, that even suggesting that Spike have a zillion tests run on himself and a unsuspecting surrogate female resulting in a 100% clean Bill of Health, I have now realized there is no doubt a remissive gene lurking in him that would skip his generation and yet leap forward to cause misery to thousands of future generations.
I now fully realize that without the ever precious AKC Registration, proving beyond a doubt his linage is without flaw, that little "no papers, no past" Spike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be a party to a controlled, in home breeding.
I want to thank the thousands of responsible Breeders out there who only sell AKC papered and flawless purebreds, Puppy Mills not included. And, I sincerely apologize to those responsible Breeders whom I unintentionally inflamed with my totally uninformed, uneducated, and ignorant suggestion.
:rain:
:fallen:
your not ignorant! ;)

wnalegria 10-20-2005 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviousfred
I really know nothing about his line. I saved Spike from the Humane Society and found absolutley nothing about his past. He is very healthy. I want to breed him because I think he needs to. He humps a couple of dogs from the neighborhood when he play with them. And if he is, I figured I might as well charge a stud fee.

It sounds like your little guy should be neutered. Breeding him when he has a humping problem will more then likely just make this problem worse. Not make it better.


You will not be able to register him with the AKC of he was a rescue from the shelter as yoou can not prove his ancestory. Most people who breed thier female want the male to be of the saame reistry so that they can register the puppies. Unfortunately most will not accept your word that he is purebred and give you papers. We can't say who his mom and dad are- or any of his relatives.

You may want to reconsider the idea of breeding him.

wnalegria 10-20-2005 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviousfred
So because AKC won't give me a piece of paper I shouldn't breed him??? If AKC is as good as most poeple make them out to be, why don't they do blood work or similar things to determine a bloodline or "recessive genetic traits?"

You are the one who would have to pay the bill- if they provided such testing and it would be very expensive.

You should not breed him because you know nothing of his genetic background and what serious health issues he may pass on to his puppies.

It is a shame that the correct protocal was not followed in allowing you to adopt him. That is why the pets thru the shelter or rescue are to be altered.

sylvan 10-20-2005 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipperdancing
I am so SORRY that I suggested Spike's owner go ahead and breed him!!! As soon as I could get myself untied from this post and stomp the bonfire underneath me out, I realized that I had made a dreadful mistake.
And, that even suggesting that Spike have a zillion tests run on himself and a unsuspecting surrogate female resulting in a 100% clean Bill of Health, I have now realized there is no doubt a remissive gene lurking in him that would skip his generation and yet leap forward to cause misery to thousands of future generations.
I now fully realize that without the ever precious AKC Registration, proving beyond a doubt his linage is without flaw, that little "no papers, no past" Spike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be a party to a controlled, in home breeding.
I want to thank the thousands of responsible Breeders out there who only sell AKC papered and flawless purebreds, Puppy Mills not included. And, I sincerely apologize to those responsible Breeders whom I unintentionally inflamed with my totally uninformed, uneducated, and ignorant suggestion.
:rain:
:fallen:
Gracious apology. I takes a big person to admit a mistake. We've all made them at some time, so welcome to the crew.
just a note...flawless is not guaranteed by an AKC registration and is indeed just a goal to strive for, but in reality, I will quote Rini, "choose the fault you can live with" and try to improve upon it.

bigdog 10-20-2005 04:39 PM
Don't be like me. Listen and learn from these breeders on here that have been in the business for many years. I need to just sit back and watch and learn.I love and respect this breed very much. I am finding out a lot can go wrong from not knowing enough about the dog you are breeding and his or her ancesters. Your little boy is a doll!

wnalegria 10-20-2005 07:26 PM
It is part of human nature to have that darling yorkie that you love and want to breed it. It is just that sometimes we have to say no.

None of us have a perfect dog acording to the standard- it is just that there are some faults that you can live with some you can not.

I have three kids- all three have handicapps because I carry a genetic defect
that we did not know about. I love all three of my children. If I would have known 28 years ago that I would pass on this to my children- I would never have had biological children- I would have adopted. My children do not intend to have biological children because they do not wish to pass the hardships that they have seen each other deal with to thier children. If I was a yorkie I should have been spayed and never allowed to reproduce-since I did reproduce my children have the responsibilty of not allowing this genetic mess of hurting another generation.

CC's 10-20-2005 08:23 PM
Sometimes suggesting all that needs done to breed deters someone without getting to blunt ;).

wnalegria 10-21-2005 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC's
Sometimes suggesting all that needs done to breed deters someone without getting to blunt ;).

No matter what you say- feelings get hurt. No matter how kind you try to say please don't breed- feelings are hurt. It is a no win situation. It is thrown back in a breeders face that you just say things because you don't want the competition for stud service or selling puppies and the best one is you just think you are better then I am.

If we did not care about the breed we would not keep gpoing back and trying to give information and our thoughts. It does seem though that in a number of instances minds have been made up when the original post has been written. They are going to breed that female/male regardless of what any one says to them.

There are some folks that do not get the point unless you talk straight forward and try and put it into terms that they can see the otherside.

YorkieLady 10-21-2005 04:57 AM
I also wanted to add that just 2 weeks ago, I was drawn to a beautiful Yorkie at the park, or so I thought. We got to talking and seems that this seemingly purebred Yorkie I was adoring was a Yorkie/Maltese MIX. I swear it looked like a full-blooded Yorkie. There was NO white on that dog and was about 6lbs at 5 years old. I was totally amazed that this dog was a MIX. Just something to think about.
I don't want you to feel "bashed" or "attacked" -- we are just wanting to prevent more future shelter dogs. Not saying the dogs your male would produce would end up in a shelter -- only that there are already too many in shelters and most people want proven (w/ papers) purebred dogs.

centralnewyorki 10-21-2005 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipperdancing
I now fully realize that without the ever precious AKC Registration, proving beyond a doubt his linage is without flaw, that little "no papers, no past" Spike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be a party to a controlled, in home breeding.
There are a million things that could go wrong in breeding two perfectly healthy yorkies. I wouldn't want the added burden of not knowing anything about the dam or sire's medical history. The "no papers" part isn't so much the issue as the "no past." The amount of money it would cost to thoroughly test a dog with an unknown past would probably surpass the amount needed to spend on a new yorkie, so what's the point? If someone is an animal lover, I don't understand the desire to play Russian Roulette with a living creatures health? So, there probably isn't anything major that will happen, but what if there is? What if the puppies are born with liver shunt or another dibilitating disease? Would you want to be resposible for making puppies suffer? Would you want to watch as you have to put down terminally ill puppies? I sure as heck wouldn't.

AKC is the most highly-regaurded because it is the most strict. Not to say that all dogs registered with the other registries are inferior or mixed with another breed, but I personally wanted an AKC registered yorkie because I felt confident that I was paying for a pure-bred yorkie and getting one.

txshopper73 10-21-2005 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnalegria
No matter what you say- feelings get hurt. No matter how kind you try to say please don't breed- feelings are hurt. It is a no win situation. It is thrown back in a breeders face that you just say things because you don't want the competition for stud service or selling puppies and the best one is you just think you are better then I am.

If we did not care about the breed we would not keep gpoing back and trying to give information and our thoughts. It does seem though that in a number of instances minds have been made up when the original post has been written. They are going to breed that female/male regardless of what any one says to them.

There are some folks that do not get the point unless you talk straight forward and try and put it into terms that they can see the otherside.
Very well said!

JCarlson2004 10-21-2005 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnalegria
It sounds like your little guy should be neutered. Breeding him when he has a humping problem will more then likely just make this problem worse. Not make it better.
Very well said. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Sometimes in life we're so busy wondering if we CAN do something that we never stop and ask ourselves if we SHOULD.


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