Someday breeder questions
 

So, I would absolutely love to breed yorkies sometime - hopefully within the next 3 years or so. I have a strong belief that I would be an exceptional breeder, and that I would be able to contribute to the Yorkie breed. I have 2 boys, one of which is AKC. My CKC boy will most likely be getting fixed (especially when we get a girl - I don't ever want to have a question of paternity, and 2 unfixed boys fighting over a girl would be bad), since CKC isn't as common (Continental Kennel Club), and AKC is the most desired. I am more than willing to have my AKC boy tested to make sure he is fit to father pups, and plan to do so when I have gotten the OK from my husband to begin looking for a girl. My aim is to always breed puppies within the AKC standard, and to have sociable and happy puppies. I have been doing a lot of research, but I would like some responses from you breeders about what I need to know.

1. What are the things that some people don't think about?
2. What are all the costs associated with breeding an akc litter (registrations, tails, dew claws, shots, etc)
3. How often have you lost puppies/mothers?
4. When I do purchase, would it be a good idea to find a breeder out of the area so that I could be sure she wasn't related to my boy?
5. Is it possible to look at the sire and dam's pedigrees when I'm looking at pups to compare to my akc boy's pedigree to be absolutely certain that they aren't at all related? - like, would that be an ok thing to ask of the breeder?
6. My AKC boy is about 4 lbs. If I were to purchase a girl that reached an adult weight of 5 to 7 lbs, that would be an acceptable match, correct? I definitely want healthy weight puppies!

I would appreciate any advice or information, as I want to be as well informed as possible even before I buy a female puppy. Also, do or would any of you sell to a person hoping to breed? I figure everyone needs a first dog, and would like to know what would your process be in selling a dog to one hopeful of breeding your puppy at some point? Thanks in advance for answers to my questions :)

Welcome! Im just starting too. I have my male and female and should be ready this year.

2. You could ask your vet how much they charge for tail docking, dew claws, vaccinations, x-rays, ultrasounds, etc. It took me forever to locate a vet that could do pre-breeding testing so its a good idea to find you a good vet in advance. I was trading emails with my vet before even purchasing my yorkies. Some vets around here dont even do pre-breeding tests-I was shocked at how many dont.

4. I got my dogs out of state. Not because I was worried about them being related, but because it was that difficult in finding a dog that close to the breed standard. There are a lot of breeders that dont know much about the breed.

5. Yes you can see the pedigree and a good breeder would allow you to. In fact, I had already purchased my female when looking for my male and three states away from each other--I did find the male I was interested in were indeed related and had to continue searching. I wouldnt consider purchasing a dog to breed if I couldnt see the pedigree.

6. Yes-try to stay between 5-7 pounds.

7. Make sure that when you purchase your dogs to inquire about their health...and parents health. Ask the breeder if a dog has ever been returned for health reasons and if so what kind. Ask the breeder if they have done any genetic screenings.

When looking for a sire that is a puppy, be sure to find out if his testes have dropped..cuz if not, you cant use him a sire.

Good luck to you. Not too many people come to ask these questions before breeding their yorkie so hats off to ya :). Its a long and winding road your getting on, but well worth it.

One more thing to add.

My friend breeds big dogs in Florida. They had a litter of 12 puppies. She had to tote them all into the vet for dew claws and tail dockings, health screenings and vaccinations....it cost her about $200 for dew claws, but by the time the pups went to their new homes, she had spent well over 700 bucks in vet fees and that was without any complications whatsoever.

She also had to supplement bottle feed because the mother only had six nipples. I cant even imagine the cost of goats milk over the course of about 6weeks for a litter that large.

hey, thanks for your answer!! Yeah, Tank (my AKC boy) has had both testicles drop, I just need to dna test him, as well as have him checked over for any issues such as liver problems or luxating patellas. I'm hoping for the best, because his temperment is absolutely wonderful(among other things)!

I'm not a breeder, but I have attempted to breed my babies this past heat in October. It isn't an easy feat by any means and sometimes it just doesn't come out the way you plan it. I couldn't achieve a tie and truly felt defeated and realized that it just wasn't meant to be, that I needed to research and learn more.
First and foremost, I purchased a very informative book by Muriel Lee called The Whelping and Rearing of Puppies, I cannot tell you how many times I have jotted down notes and read this book and still I feel I don't have all the right answers (probably never will) Also you should do a lot of web research, and talk to other breeders. It's good to get as much information as you can, and this forum is a wonderful place with very helpful people. :) I'll try to answer some of your questions you posted in my own experiences so far:

1. What are the things that some people don't think about?
It's not as easy as some people may think. You can have two of the most wonderful babies who may or may not be able to have a litter. It might take several attempts to achieve a pregnancy and there may or may not be complications. You, the breeder, have to have financial savings for anything that may arise, testing, x-rays, c-section, emergencies etc.
2. What are all the costs associated with breeding an akc litter (registrations, tails, dew claws, shots, etc)
It truly depends on your vet and the area in which you live.

6. My AKC boy is about 4 lbs. If I were to purchase a girl that reached an adult weight of 5 to 7 lbs, that would be an acceptable match, correct? I definitely want healthy weight [COLOR=green! important][COLOR=green! important]puppies[/COLOR][/COLOR]
Unless you are getting an older female I don't think there would be anyway to guarantee how big she may or may not get. You cannot just go by the parent's weight or what a breeder can speculate. When we got Rhianna she was 3lbs 12oz she was already 6 months old. I was told that she would possibly weigh between 5 - 6 lbs, since mom was 5 1/2lbs and dad was 4 3/4 lbs but that it wasn't a guarantee. She is now 6lbs 12oz at 19 months old.

I wanted to add that how you feel about breeding now, most likely won't be how you feel about breeding when you get your little girl. I know for me, I was all gung ho about having a litter and wanting a litter and knowing that I would make a good breeder, etc., but after you go through the heat cycles (you need at least 2) and you see how it affects your boy and what your house is like for 21 or more days with keeping them seperated until breeding can take place, it's a LOT of work and it takes a LOT of patience and earplugs and alcohol . . .LOL
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Have you had your male & female tested? Tests need to be performed on them before you consider breeding. Why are you wanting to breed? Breeding should be done when you have the "best male" & "best female" to the breed standard. You should not be breeding just for the puppies. Cost of raising a litter is the last thing on my mind. The well being of my momma is first and foremost! Most breeders already have their own sire's. There is more to breeding than having a male & female! Losing a puppy is devastating! Breeding is NOT for everyone!

The best possible advice I can give you is if you haven't found a mentor, that would be your first step, one that has been involved in yorkies for years and has an established, well known line. Next take canine genetic, breeding and whelping classes.

Testing your yorkies is not inexpensive. Besides all the required blood tests, bile acids, x-rays, temperament tests. There are OFA and CFA tests.

Breeding is not an easy journey.......

jackson25 - pretty sure I said why I want to breed...I love yorkies, and believe I have something to offer the breed. No, it's not just for puppies, and it's DEFINITELY not to make money - I know it's a very spendy and time consuming thing to do - but if it's a passion, money and time shouldn't be concerns. I want to breed because I've loved animals my entire life, and since I was a small child, I've been interested in doing something to do with animals - breeding just seems like it would be a fit for me. No, I haven't tested my boys yet, I'm not planning on buying a girl for at least a full year, so if I test them this summer, it shouldn't be an issue. I do know both of them have had their testicles drop, though, because first off, it's quite obvious, and second, the vet said so. I don't mean to come off as rude or overly defensive, I just believe I've already stated some of the stuff you asked about.
Mardelin - thank you for your advice. I haven't made it to any book stores yet, I've pretty much just done internet research as of yet, but I plan to invest in books and such, and I think that when I find a true mentor, we will just kinda click right off the bat, you know? I've actually never heard of classes I could take. Where would I find those? I have been doing lots of reading here in the breeder section :) Yorkietalk is a wonderful place.

Books are nice but, the really don't prepare you, nice reference, but there are seminars....search the web.....Attend dog shows, the best place to find a good mentor.

I will say that I studied, exhibited, finished 3 Champions before I ever produced my first litter.

Buy the best stock your can afford from the best lines.....

The advice about buying your dog from a different state so they wouldn't be related..... Reputable breeders line breed, it's the only way you can set type and establish a line.

Theres a question nobody has answered yet: those of you who breed, would you sell a female to a new breeder?

1. People often just think of the rewards of breeding rather than the heartbreaks. In my last litter, I lost one of the pups due to being underdeveloped. Despite everything I did, I could not get him to keep breathing. Are you prepared to watch a puppy suffer until it dies? That is something that is heartbreaking to see and an image that will stick with you for the rest of your life. Are you also prepared that something could go seriously wrong and your female could die in the process of giving birth? I am not trying to be rude or negative, but to prepare you for the realities of breeding such a small, fragile breed of dog.
2. My last litter cost me $1200 in vet bills and that is not including the amount I paid to guarantee my dogs were healthy enough to breed beforehand, food, pee pads, safe cleaning product, paper towels, toys, electricity bills to ensure the house is warm enough, etc. As well as the unmeasurable amount of time it takes out of your life to help raise these puppies and provide them with a safe, caring environment. And this was a very successful breeding with no complications other than the loss of the one pup. It is not uncommon for the mother to need a C-section in this breed and that could cost you a couple thousand dollars. Another cost to consider is if a puppy is born ill, you could pile a lot of money into that pup to keep it alive and it could still die. Needless to say, breeding is not a way to make easy money, and often times you do not make any money at all.
3. I have only lost one puppy, but I am a relatively new breeder.
4. Buying out of the area is not necessary to ensure your dogs are not related.
5. Any good breeder will provide you with pedigrees of the pups without you even asking. If the breeder refuses to show you the pedigrees or gives you a hard time about showing the pedigrees to you, this is not a breeder that you want to buy a puppy from.
6. You do want your female to be larger than your male. But if you are buying a female as a puppy, there is no way to guarantee that the puppy will be between 5 and 7 pounds from such a young age. The breeder can give you an estimate based on their previous growth and the pups parents sizes, but this does not ensure that the puppy with be a certain size.

I would recommend you go to some dog shows and meet some more yorkie breeders and get as much information and help as you can before you begin to start breeding. Find yourself a mentor BEFORE you start breeding and even before you buy a female. Your mentor will be able to help you make sure the female and male have complementing qualities to keep your pups within AKC standard. I had 3 mentors before I started breeding and I read a lot of books (which barely even begin to prepare you) and talked talked to many people starting 5 years before I wanted to breed. You also should not breed your female until her 3rd heat cycle, which could not be until she is a year and a half/two years old. And you should not breed her any more than every other heat cycle, this being the most often. And a female should not have more than 3 maybe 4 litters in her lifetime in order to keep her healthy as well.
Please send me a message if you have anymore questions.
Alyssa

Depends on the preparation and knowledge of this person. Not without ensuring that this person is prepared for all aspects of breeding.

This is not a yes or no answer......

Placing a yorkie with someone that is starting out in breeding is a bit more complicated than that. I would never place a dog, male or female on open registration with a new breeder whose only purpose is to breed.

You can find some that will but sometimes they require a contract or to be co-owners on the bitch for a certain period of time. It sounds like you are getting a good start with research.

Let me add, whether male or female.....a reputable breeder would insist the dog; whether male or female would be Championed.....of course with a strict contract inclusive that all pups not kept by the the owner of the dog will be placed on a spay/nueter contract......

Therefore, placing a dog on an open registration requires a lot of responsibility with the biggest one being a mentor to the person that is purchasing the puppy........

I have the utmost respect for Mardelin (Mary?) and her advice - she is always helpful and respectful to the posters on YT. I would like to add a little explanation of the reason most breeders insist on show contracts for the pups they place on open registration. AKC conformation showing's purpose is for the evaluation of breeding stock. It is not just whether or not your dog is pretty. Judges spend many hours and attend seminars and must learn a great deal about the breeds they judge. They must go to match shows and spend time as a provisional judge. They must evaluate the structure of a dog or bitch. Acheiving Championship in AKC validates that your breeders are sound by people who are carefully schooled in the standard of the breed.
Also you might want to do some research on line breeding, it is part of most reputable breeders practices to all or some extent. Look for a good mentor.

Size question
 

I have a 4mo old yorkie girl. Her name is Lucy. We just love her she is wonderful. She is already 8 pounds. When I got her the breeder told me she should be about 6 pounds grown. Well that not the case. She is very tall, not chubby at all. She looks like a yorkie. Her hair started turning silver now it has stopped. I am not sure if she is a mix, we paid for pure bred yorkie that would be small but my lil girl is a big girl. Has anybody else had this happen?

It happens to the best of breeders. This breed is a very difficult breed. And the only thing you can depend on with the breed is they'll make a liar out of you everytime.

Just to expand on what 3Furryfaces posted. Most reputable breeders line breed, this is done to set type. The dam and sire contribute to 50% of the puppy's genetic make up, grandparents 25% and greatgrand parents 12%......That is unless there is a dog you see frequently throughout the pedigree. However, because so many breeds went into the yorkshire terrier, at any given time a wee one may pop up or one that exceeds the standard. Doesn't make them any less pure breed. You cannot breed yorkies as in other breeds. In otherwords (just a bit scientific here); pheno type to pheno type as in poodles and know what you're going to get....

Thank you
 

She is very smart, was easy to potty train so I am very happy with her regardless of her size. I have a Shi Zu that is just a lil bit bigger and they love to play rough. So it really is a good thing she's not very small. My pom that is about 4lbs wants nothing to do with playing and I thought that they would be good playmates. So your right she proved me wrong there to. Thanks for the info, it does make feel better about the breeder.

I have not read every post (I will tomorrow) but I wanted to answer

#3
I have lost 2 pups (back when I started breeding), 11 days old, they were happy healthy, and appeared fine. I thought everything would be fine. They were strong. I did not know that other females could not be around the new Mom, and her pups, and as a result 2 were killed, by one of the other females. It was a gruesome thing to find, when I got home from work. If I had had a mentor, back then, I would not have made that mistake.

first off, thank you to everyone who has answered my questions - I appreciate the new knowledge, and to hear your guys' experiences. I think it helps to see what you have gone through and learned. It was quite interesting to see about line breeding - I'd never heard that term before. It does make sense though. I will definitely be checking into at least watching some shows, if not participating at some point. I think that would be fun, as well as a good learning experience. Also, it makes sense about my question about you selling a female to a new breeder - not being a yes or no, I mean. I didn't even think about the fact that you would probably base your decision on whether or not you trust the person and how you felt about them...you would be talking about one of your own puppies, of course :) Mardelin - I really thank you for your insight and taking the time to answer my questions, I can see you are a very experienced breeder and want nothing but the best for the breed, and for all your dogs/puppies.

I would also like to reiterate a few things that I think some people just haven't paid attention to or understood...I do not have a female yet, and I do not plan to buy one for at least one year (the SOONEST I would get a girl would be about January of 2011, but it could very possibly wait until 2012). I am trying to do as much research as possible now, so that I am well prepared for when I have a female ready to be bred. I realize that I will see puppies die, and very possibly a mother. I am fully prepared for that. I work in a hospital and see death on a daily basis - I know it's different, but I feel that I am able to handle death, even of loved ones, well.

I know none of you "want to come off as rude", but really, I know that I could lose a dog, adult or infant, and I don't need to hear it 5 thousand times before I understand it. I was more interested in the vet bills of a litter with and without complications, opinions of selling to a new breeder, supplies I may not think of that I would need, and stuff like that. I know about the emotional side of it, and am prepared for it.

Again, I'm not planning on breeding until at least 2013, I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row way beforehand. Thanks :)

oh, and yorkiejunkie, it is so good of you to say this - I never even thought of that. Aren't you supposed to also keep any male dogs away from newborns, also? I've read that in a couple places. I can imagine it would be a very distressing thing to come home to...I will definitely never forget this little tidbit of information.

So, glad you are taking your time. That is one thing that so many who start out don't seem to do. They are in a hurry and it does come back and bite them in the end.

I know that it is stressed often about the great possibility of losing your female and/or the puppies during a whelp. It has been stressed over and over. And at times it gets on newbies nerves. But, no matter how many times it is stressed, nothing prepares you for that moment when it does it hit you. I know it hit me year before last with my Champion girl......Believe me the harsh reality of it was more than I could bear. You know something is wrong and you are helpless. She lived but, for 4 days it was horrible. Not knowing if she was going to make it. Seeing her with tubes and needles, being pumped full of antibiotics and fluids.....Leaving her with the vet's......Really scarey and the worst feeling is that my decision contributed to put her in that situation......

I'm going to be a bit blunt here.....and you aren't going to like what I'm about to say. If you came to me asking me for a breeding female or male....and said I'm not planning on breeding until 2012 or 13. It would immediately set off warning signals to me. I don't know if that is fair but, it is my natural instinct to feel that breeding is your main goal.....May not be....but, it does send that message to me.

Good Luck in your endeavor.....Research, research, research........don't go to the first breeder that will sell you a dog on open registration, go to the best, one that is going to mentor you and stand beside you every step of the way.

You are right about the males, and even as a novice I knew that. It is written in EVERY book! But no one told me, and I had never seen it written before it happened. Of course, AFTER THE FACT.... lots of people I spoke to say, "oh, I've heard of that... never happened to me..."

I am glad you are doing your research well before.

I will say though it is hard to pick a female, that will be perfect for your breeding program, as a puppy.

You are so right. Whether female or male; they should not be obtained prior to the age of 7 months of age and have all the attributes of a show dog...in other words be as close to standard as possible.

I never allow my pups run with males until they are well over 5 months of age and only when closely supervised. Males just tend to be a bit more aggressive and you don't want a pups self confidence messed with.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You have been given some excellent advise. Should you wish to at some point purchase a top quality dog you are probably going to have to become involved in showing your dogs. In my opinion you may have to become involved with showing first, breeding later. Showing is the name of the game, breeding goes along with showing. Actually, I know a lot of people who show males only, because breeding is not their thing. Should you obtain a yorkie that has done well in the show ring, you may wish to breed that dog in order to try to reproduce or improve on the qualities that the dog has. Improving with every litter is the goal. Most breeders with top quality dogs only breed to produce show dogs for themselves. That being said, you may have a little trouble obtaining a really good female as most breeders keep the females for their own breeding programs. Good quality females are a precious commodity. In my experience, it is much easier to find a breeder that may co-own a male with you in order for you to get your feet wet in the show ring. Go to a few dog shows, it is a great fun experience, talk to some breeders and maybe you will find yourself hooked.

Audrey

Thanks again for the advice. I am interested in showing, but I don't know that I'm allowed to begin my Tank in showing, as he's already 14 months old. He is AKC, but I didn't really start researching stuff and getting interested until a little while back...am I allowed to start in adult shows, rather than puppy shows?

Little help here...

He can compete in the 12 to 18 month class......Get him entered as soon as possible....just for the practice of being in the ring.....Once he turns 18 months and 1 day, he'll have to be entered in American Bred (very few people enter there, but itis an option until both of you feel comfortable)....then go on to Open Class......This Class tells the judge your dog is ready to win.

Contact a local Kennel Club, check and see if they hold any local comformation classes.......great training for both of you.........

Get to shows as soon as possible....best way to get to meet people that can help you get started.......

Another suggestion....if you are truely interested.....start buying that show equipment.....little by little.....it get's expensive if you attempt to buy it all at once. I had all of mine prior to even finding my first show dog. That 1st show dog purchase is not cheap. Same as your whelping equipment.

Go to the AKC website....some info on for Novices on showing.....also, many Kennel Clubs are holding seminars at their shows for the Novice......