Professional Kennel?
 

do good breeders have kennels or do they keep their dogs in the house?

What should a professional kennel look like?

what's the difference between a good kennel? (show/professional breeders) and a bad kennel?(puppymill)

How many dogs should a good breeder have?

I am trying to learn the difference between a good breeder and a puppy mill.
I have seen on TV what a puppy mill look like, but I am trying to find out what are the signs that a reputable breeder is indeed a good breeder or if they borderline puppy mill?

What things do I look for? # of dogs in the kennel?
The set up of the kennel?
indoor/outdoor?
Smell and cleanliness of the kennel?

Please let me know what you think, I would like to hear your opinion!

My dogs are in my house, under my feet.

I would say a kennel is ok if the dogs are kept in 4x4 cubicles and not wire cages.

although most puppy muills will not let you see where the dogs are kept, it might not even be on the property where you go to see the dogs.

Look at their website, if they have 20 puppies for sale and multiple breeds they are probably a mill. do they show the pedigrees of the adults?

Ask for references? or ask around? Google them

The looks and the smell of their home has nothing to do with it because like I said the dogs might not even be at that location.

Most breeders I know keep their dogs in their house. Some I know have kennels.

My opinion of a good kennel - indoor and outdoor access, indoor with solid floor, not wire, outdoor flooring (if any) is plastic grate, not wire. No 'stacking' of dogs on top of each other. Dogs look comfortable, not overcrowded at all, lots of room to run and play and sleep comfortably. Environment is clean... Suitable grooming area, seperate whelping area... A good system for disposal of waste, temperature controlled... Constant access to fresh water... Dogs are clean and groomed properly

Most breeders I know have 15 or less. I do have a good friend who breeds Japanese chins (has bred 78 champions) and she has a kennel with approx 20 breeding dogs.

thank you. :) what i am trying to find out is more specific things to look for in a good kennel.

i would prefer and think that it's nice if the dogs don't have to live in a kennel, but at the same time, i don't think having a kennel is an indication that it's not a good breeder. that's why i am trying to learn specific things to look for.

also would like to learn about reputable breeders, specifically, the difference between hobby breeder and larger scale breeder. what is considered expectable size breeding program before it boarderlines a puppy mill.

thank you for the info.! it's really helpful.

should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?

should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

This is all just my opinion. I am not an authority.


should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?
*I would say that depends on the situation - do the dogs get along with each other? Etc... Certainly males seperated from females unless intending to breed with each other. I would think it would be better for the dogs to be in groups, or at least pairs - it would be awful to be alone all the time. But, even if they live in a kennel, they should be socialized with people dogs, etc. They shouldn't be left in the kennel and never get out.



should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

*Generally, I'd think more females than males, but it depends... If you are talking about a serious show breeder, then it would depend on which pups 'turn out' as to which pups are kept into adulthood. But if the purpose is breeding, then more females would make sense. Is there a good balance? 20 females and one male doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe 4 females and one male or 8 females and 2 males... Also, what is their relationship to one another...

Being able to see the kennel is the most important. You can tell a LOT by how the dogs look and what the kennel looks like. Is it clean and obvious that someone is dedicated to the care of the dogs? Or, does it look like the dogs are getting the minimum care (if any).



We were actually talking about this last month at our local AKC club meeting (well, sort of). Some of the 'old timers' were talking about how there used to be a lot of large, quality kennels with 150 dogs or so - many employees, permanent hired handlers, etc. But, those large kennels don't really exist anymore. It's just too expensive. The only people with that many dogs these days are USDA commercial breeders...

I hope some of my babbling makes sense.

In my opinion, it becomes a puppy mill there are more dogs than the facility can accomodate comfortably. It's not so much the size of a facility, but the conditions that the dogs are kept in.

If a kennel had 100 breeding dogs and the dogs were all kept in a facility that was cared for like the Budwiser Clydesdales stables, then it is not too large. But when the dogs are kept in crates, even if it is only 1 dog, that is not an acceptable facility.

But just because someone shows you a fine facility, does not mean they dlo not have dogs in an another facility somewhere. So you have to look at the big picture.

True and being a USDA commercial breeder does not mean a thing as far as good or bad. The requirements for being a USDA breeder are minimal.

But you have to look at more than just the facility, as I said they can have a handful of dogs to show you, they can show you one male and one female and claim to each buyer that those are the parents.

Researching the breeder is more important than researching for the perfect puppy. Because if you get a good breeder they will see that you get a good puppy.

Too many people have this perfect puppy in their mind, looks, size, coloring, personality, and they don't care who they buy it from. So look for the breeder first.

I totally agree. :)

thank you so much! this info. is really helpful.

i've visited a couple of show/hobby breeders this weekend. and another breeder who no longer shows, but used to. ( i know that just because a breeder show their dogs doesn't mean they are the best breeder and that just because a breeder doesn't show his/her dog, it also doesnt' mean he/she is not a good breeder)

i am trying to look for a good breeder, and honestly, i was surprised when i saw a kennel this weekend. i have never seen a kennel before, so my first thought was "is this a puppy mill!?"

but the breeder was really nice, and really willing to share info. about her vet's contact info. and the pedigree of her dogs.

so i think she is a good breeder and my first impression of the kennel is a little off because i have never seen a kennel before.

the kennel was clean, and there wasn't any bad smell. she said the dogs are let outside a couple of times a day.

she has indoor expens, some wall cages, and she also had expens out doors, and a fenced-in grass area.

so i think this is probably what a 'good kennel' would look like?

i just want to make sure. and after seeing a kennel this weekend,
it made me really interested to learn what a good kennel should look like.

thanks! :):):)

i agree with you that researching the breeder is very important. the only issue i am up against right now is the show/hobby breeders have very few dogs available, 2 of the breeders i visited this weekend, one of them have one dog available, but she might get adopted tmw. the other one has maybe one puppy available. she has a dog that she is waiting to see if she would put on more weight, because she would like to show her if she would put on more weight.

these 2 breeders only breed dogs when they need a show dog. so they don't often have puppies available.

i tried to look up info on the breeder online, but i do not have luck finding too much info on them.

makes a lot of sense. i think the quality kennels are small scale kennels now. and i was trying to get an idea of what would be an acceptable size. you gave really good example/info.

thank you so much! :)

I do not have a kennel (and never will)....but I also only own one breeding female. We have 4 Yorkies, two of those are Huckleberry and Livi....the only ones that breed. All of my fur kids have free roam of our home. In fact, it's more like it's theirs and they just allow us to stay with them. :p I am sure there are good breeders out there that have kennels, but I would never want so many that they couldn't live in the house with us. :(

LOL

Ha I tell people that too, My dogs don't live in my house, I live in their kennel.

And I have 6 dogs who allow us to live with them (and share their bed). I have 2 females that I am planning to breed and my studly boy (who will be retiring soon). The other 3, two are retired breeding females and one old boy is a rescue.
I think that the difference between a good breeder and a bad one, is in how they sell their puppies and why they are producing them. If a sale is first and foremost on their minds, then you should probably run fast. If they are breeding puppies for no other reason but to sell them, that makes them a puppy mill in my mind, whether they have one breeding dog or 50. I only breed with the next show dog in mind. There are enough homeless dogs in this world without me producing dogs for no reason other than to sell them. I have had people content to wait two years for a puppy from me and I have had others come into my home with money in hand, like it was a store and it was their right to just hand over the money and go home with a pup (they don't get one).
I also don't know how anyone can properly socialize a pup that is living in a kennel. Puppies should be exposed to the sounds and sights of living in a house, they should be comfortable riding in a car and used to the sounds and sights of the outside world. When my puppies leave my home, they are prepared for life in a home, they know how to treat people and they are aware of their place in a pack of dogs, so they know how to act with dogs of all ages.

JMO but I think dogs should be home raised not in a kennel ..these are pets not live stock.

Mine are also raised underfoot and run the house 90% of the time
but when mom needs some peace and quite they go to their own room.

what i am trying to learn is what should an ideal kennel look like. if you were to design a kennel that is dog friendly, what should it look like? something reasonable of course. like WalnutHill pointed out that there used to be more good large kennels, but not anymore because it was too expensive.

so it obviously has to be something sustainable. not too expensive but still be very doggy friendly.

I can't answer that because it is not something that I have ever looked into...or plan to look into. I have no interest in even having a kennel. Are you planning to build one?

i really like some of the points you made. specifically, i like what you said about why they produce their dogs.

i think it's reasonable what you said about ppl waiting a long time to get their puppy, like the person who waited 2 years to get a dog from you. but i also think it's reasonable for people not to wait so long. there are good reasons you might want to bring a dog into your life at a specific time. i think of bringing a new pet to my home as family planning. i consider when i have the most available time to devote energy and care for my pet. different things happen during different stages of your life. so i like to try to plan as best as i can.:)

no, i am not planning to build a kennel. but i might be interested in building a no-kill shelter later on in life if i have the resources. and this info. of what a dog-friendly kennel should look like would definitely be VERY VERY useful if i ever am able to do that!!!:):animal36

but for right now, i am just a dog lover who is interested in this topic and want to learn more. like i mentioned in my first post. i am interested to find out the difference between a good kennel and a puppy mill. i know the question sounds almost retarded because we've all watched on TV what a puppy mill looks like, BUT i have never seen on TV what a GOOD dog friendly kennel should look like. so i am hoping to learn from you guys.

thanks. :)

Ya know, Yen, this is a really good point...bc I too have seen my share, sadly, of the worst of the worst in terms of puppy mills :(...but now that I think of it...I'm not sure that I can picture what might be "acceptable" or even "good" (?) in terms of a kennel.

I know I've seen pics of Best Friends Animal Society's (who I really respect) kennels a bunch of times...but now I can't picture the actual kennel spaces in my mind....would that be a good place to start? Maybe later I will try to look for pics on their site.

As far as home-based breeders though...I'm not really sure...

I don't think dogs are live stock either, i don't think it's bad if they are raised in kennels especially if there are many dogs which breeders typically have (of course not always) i am trying to learn what a good, ideal kennel should look like.

i think it's ok that they stay in a kennel as long as the kennels are dog friendly and the dogs have access to outside everyday.

they have a cute little room :)

how many dogs do you own? what type of arrangement would you have if say you have 15-20 adult dogs? what are some of the realistic possibilities?

thanks! :)

I know several well known yorkie breeder/exhibitors that have wonderful kennels, attached to their homes, but still kennels. They do have a grooming room, a training room (set up with rings), a nursery, whelping room (with TV and bed for those endless nights), sick room and kitchen.....Dogs are kept in x-pens and have a wonderful backyard to play in.

thank you for the info. :)

are there resources where i can look up info. regarding this? i tried google, and it usually just show dog cages for sell.

i am curious because i saw a kennel at a breeders house for the first time last weekend, and i was surprised at first only because i have never seen one before. after thinking more about it. i became really interested to find out what would be an ideal way for a breeder to house so many dogs.

i feel a little bit like kennel is a dirty word or something at this moment since i don't get ppl very willing to share info. with me. and it seems that some reaction i am getting is negative, which i understand, because when i first saw a kennel, i was a little bit uncomfortable. but then i had some time to think about it. i think it's very reasonable for a breeder with so many dogs to have a kennel.

i love dogs, i am not actually considering breeding or building a kennel, i was just hoping to learn about it, and am a little surprised at not being able to hear from more breeders.

i hope more breeders will be willing to share their knowledge, i am currently looking for a puppy, and i have been trying to do everything i was told by ppl and breeder from this forum. but sometimes it's hard to find info. beyond just the very basic.

i was told to "go visit the breeders" and make sure you meet the parents, ...etc.

but nobody said anything about kennels? and what are the things i should look for to make sure everything is looking good.

Having gotten one of my studs from a well known breeder who keeps her dogs in well kept kennel he would run in circles when i first got him ,he still tends to do it but has gotten much better.I believe they miss out on the social aspect also running with other dogs ,meeting new people,training.Making sure they enjoy their lives is vital to me.

Kennel does give of some negative vibes. However, most don't realize those well known reputable breeders didn't get there by breeding 1 or 2 dogs. The do have kennels. How else would they have produced the multitude of Champions they do.

But, most of these kennels have been designed by the Kennel owner to fit their needs. Some have added onto their house. Some have turned their entire basement into a kennel. Plus added on. Now keep in mind their basements have windows on one side and open up to their back yardm so the dogs have benefit of the sun.....These exhibitor/breeders spend countless hours with their dogs and do have part time help come in. Their space is immaculate and so are the dogs....very well socialized and trained. And of course their dogs are allowed into the living quarters, just not all at once. Their dogs aren't kept crated, only at night for sleeping.

In the olden days, there were huge detached kennels, with hired help.

i agree with you that they need to be able to socialize with people and be able to run around outside. :)

i was really hesitant to share what the kennel i saw in person look like, not because it was bad, but because i didn't want to let out any info about any breeder when people might view it negatively for one reason or another.

but for discussion sake and for the sake of learning. i would like to describe what the kennel i visited look like, just so maybe it can start a conversation.
(and i feel ok doing so because i am not revealing the breeders name.)

the living room of the house was converted into a kennel, and the breeder's bedroom/office kitchen is next to the kennel (since her kennel is in her living room) so the dogs are definitely not isolated without human interaction.

the dogs are kept in different ex-pens, in fact, all the adult dogs each had an ex-pen. (i was a little confused as to why the dogs aren't in one big ex-pen instead of individual expens? so that was my only confusion) the expens are not very big, but they are also not very small.

there were 2 large expens outside her house on her deck. and the deck also has a little gate to stop the dogs from running out side of the house (my assumption) and there is a fenced in grassy area for the dogs as well.

the dogs were inside the house when i visited, but she told me that when the weather is nice, the dogs gets to go outside twice a day. (when i asked if the dogs get to go outside)

there are a few cages against the wall in the living room. i didn't ask, but i assume it's for grooming/drying the dogs? there were 2 dogs in the cages, one of them was scared when i approached it. so maybe that is why it's in a cage not an exp-pen?

all the other dogs seem friendly when i walk up to them, no dogs seemed scared when i approach them (except for one that look a little mean, so i didn't approach him)

like i said, i was uncomfortable when i first saw the set up. but now having some time to think about it. i think this is probably a VERY nice kennel. :) and my initial feeling was just basically my ignorance. :rolleyes:

and i was surprised at how clean the breeder was able to keep all the dogs and the kennel. there was no smell at all when i walked in, which is pretty surprising given the number of dogs in there.

please give me some feedback breeders! was the kennel i visited a nice one? i think it is, but i have nothing to compare it to. :)

If the breeder kept the dogs clean and the looked healthy and well cared for that is the most important thing.

The reason for x-pens could be many. Keeping boys seperated from girls (no oops). Her keeping them more confined helps keep the area cleaner.

When I feed my kids they are seperated.....in x-pens and kennels. It allows me to monitor who is eating what and how much. Mine aren't all on the same food, some need to lose a bit of weight and others need to gain. So keeping them in x-pens gives you a bit more control.....

In my home in Texas, I had a bonus room upstairs. I had x-pens set up, with rubber flooring and floor protection. In each pen there was a little tent, a cozy bed, toys, pee pad, water and food. Now mind you my dogs are show dogs, so to protect their coats I don't allow them to spend all day together....
Down stairs I had a puppy room where their night crates were set up and my grooming area. Pups were whelped in my bedroom (they still are) and stayed there until they went home or old enough to go play upstairs with the big kids