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-   -   Would you give me your opinion on this? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/192021-would-you-give-me-your-opinion.html)

livingdustmops 12-16-2009 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2918815)
That male should have been neutered a long time ago. No wonder alot of breeders are just spay or neutering there pups before they leave.
:thumbup:
Sorry to say but in todays world anymore a "man/woman's handshake" doesn't mean anything...Also a lot of breeder have learned to say what sounds to be "responsible" breeding contracts and never follow up on their dogs. Just lazy on their parts and they are not doing anything for the betterment of the breed...just helping to add more puppies to an over populated pet world.

jackson25 12-16-2009 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918822)
All of you ladies obviously have NOTHING better to do than state your "know-it-all" opinions in other people's business. This is really ridiculous, not to mention immature. Get over it and worry about your own lives. ;)
I do have better things to do, but this is too much fun!;)

BonBon 12-16-2009 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918822)
All of you ladies obviously have NOTHING better to do than state your "know-it-all" opinions in other people's business. This is really ridiculous, not to mention immature. Get over it and worry about your own lives. ;)
What you don't seem to understand is that for most us, yorkies are a HUGE part of our lives. We place their well being first, even when that means annoying those that don't like our questions. And actually, I do have much better things to be doing but irresponsible people like you are keeping me from it!

bjh 12-16-2009 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonbon (Post 2918805)
I just re-read what I wrote and it's not everything I meant to say. Sorry, this has just pushed my hot button today. I believe that the good breeders care deeply about their yorkies and any puppies they produce. I think this caring and concern comes (or should come) well before anything else for them.

I am curious though - why would a breeder go to the trouble of selling on limited registration and then not follow up with the new owner?
I have looked a lot of show contracts online and I think the type of contract Mary has is exceptional. Many of the show contracts will just state that the pups are being sold as pet quality with limited registration or the contract will state that the papers will not be released until proof of spay or neuter is provided. These contracts do not go into detail about what would happen if the dog is bred anyway or what happens if the dog is not neutered. I have heard that many of these contracts are hard to enforce. It is for that reason that some breeders will spay or neuter the pups before selling them. So does it make a show breeder a bad breeder if they don't have an air tight contract? Some will think so and others will not.

Mardelin 12-16-2009 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918822)
All of you ladies obviously have NOTHING better to do than state your "know-it-all" opinions in other people's business. This is really ridiculous, not to mention immature. Get over it and worry about your own lives. ;)
It's not a know it all opinion.....it's how responsible reputable breeders conduct themselves.......

Immature? By putting your dogs welfare upfront.......mmmmm immature because of concerns for the dogs....well then I gues I am immature, and I'll were the title proudly.

jackson25 12-16-2009 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918822)
All of you ladies obviously have NOTHING better to do than state your "know-it-all" opinions in other people's business. This is really ridiculous, not to mention immature. Get over it and worry about your own lives. ;)
Know-it-all opinions? We are all stating the truth of the matter, what more do you want? You brought your business to this forum! Immature?! And what you did was the next Nobel Peace Prize nominee?

blancla 12-16-2009 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2918834)
It's not a know it all opinion.....it's how responsible reputable breeders conduct themselves.......

Immature? By putting your dogs welfare upfront.......mmmmm immature because of concerns for the dogs....well then I gues I am immature, and I'll were the title proudly.

I see it as immature that she didn't get her dog neutered with the limited registration that she had.

BonBon 12-16-2009 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2918833)
I have looked a lot of show contracts online and I think the type of contract Mary has is exceptional. Many of the show contracts will just state that the pups are being sold as pet quality with limited registration or the contract will state that the papers will not be released until proof of spay or neuter is provided. These contracts do not go into detail about what would happen if the dog is bred anyway or what happens if the dog is not neutered. I have heard that many of these contracts are hard to enforce. It is for that reason that some breeders will spay or neuter the pups before selling them. So does it make a show breeder a bad breeder if they don't have an air tight contract? Some will think so and others will not.
Good question. I'm speaking only for myself here - but I think a contract like Mary has would make me think MUCH harder about spaying or neutering. I suppose I'm naive but I would always live with the worry that she COULD enforce the contract and I'd lose my baby if I didn't have him/her fixed.

WenK 12-16-2009 01:59 PM
I think that you should go to the AKC website and read the listing about limited registration. You are all assuming that a limited registration contract comes with a no-breed clause. This is simply not the case. All breeders have the right to put one in if they choose. I tried to post the link but it hasn't gone through yet so I am just letting you know that a limited registration sale is not the same as a spay-neuter (no-breed) clause.

livingdustmops 12-16-2009 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2918833)
I have looked a lot of show contracts online and I think the type of contract Mary has is exceptional. Many of the show contracts will just state that the pups are being sold as pet quality with limited registration or the contract will state that the papers will not be released until proof of spay or neuter is provided. These contracts do not go into detail about what would happen if the dog is bred anyway or what happens if the dog is not neutered. I have heard that many of these contracts are hard to enforce. It is for that reason that some breeders will spay or neuter the pups before selling them. So does it make a show breeder a bad breeder if they don't have an air tight contract? Some will think so and others will not.
I think most breeders will not spend the $$$ to sit down with a lawyer to make sure their contract are enforcable. No contract is hard to enforce if you do it right.

livingdustmops 12-16-2009 02:02 PM
[QUOTE=jackson25;2918837 And what you did was the next Nobel Peace Prize nominee?[/QUOTE]

Oh heck...I wish you hadn't posted that....BUT...NP are a dime a dozen right now so why not....Sorry I know we are not suppose to talk politics but I just couldn't resist it and besides Bun Bun made me do it.:D:p:D

Mardelin 12-16-2009 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2918833)
I have looked a lot of show contracts online and I think the type of contract Mary has is exceptional. Many of the show contracts will just state that the pups are being sold as pet quality with limited registration or the contract will state that the papers will not be released until proof of spay or neuter is provided. These contracts do not go into detail about what would happen if the dog is bred anyway or what happens if the dog is not neutered. I have heard that many of these contracts are hard to enforce. It is for that reason that some breeders will spay or neuter the pups before selling them. So does it make a show breeder a bad breeder if they don't have an air tight contract? Some will think so and others will not.
Not hard to enforce if your contract is drawn up by a lawyer......

jackson25 12-16-2009 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2918847)
Oh heck...I wish you hadn't posted that....BUT...NP are a dime a dozen right now so why not....Sorry I know we are not suppose to talk politics but I just couldn't resist it and besides Bun Bun made me do it.:D:p:D
Oh yah, pass the buck!!!!:D:D:DLOL

jackson25 12-16-2009 02:04 PM
I am trying my hardest to be good! I promise!;)


Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2918847)
Oh heck...I wish you hadn't posted that....BUT...NP are a dime a dozen right now so why not....Sorry I know we are not suppose to talk politics but I just couldn't resist it and besides Bun Bun made me do it.:D:p:D

BonBon 12-16-2009 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2918847)
Oh heck...I wish you hadn't posted that....BUT...NP are a dime a dozen right now so why not....Sorry I know we are not suppose to talk politics but I just couldn't resist it and besides Bun Bun made me do it.:D:p:D
Hey, what did I do? :p:D:p Never mind, you made me laugh and I needed that right now. :D

Brooklynn 12-16-2009 02:09 PM
I won't have to worry about a lawyer LOL....mine will be spayed/neutered before they ever leave my house :)

Donna

tegamom1 12-16-2009 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonbon (Post 2918832)
What you don't seem to understand is that for most us, yorkies are a HUGE part of our lives. We place their well being first, even when that means annoying those that don't like our questions. And actually, I do have much better things to be doing but irresponsible people like you are keeping me from it!
You said it! :thumbup: :thumbup:

livingdustmops 12-16-2009 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonbon (Post 2918855)
Hey, what did I do? :p:D:p Never mind, you made me laugh and I needed that right now. :D
HaHa..it started with #36 and the Nobel Peace Prize...and because I am not a responsible adult I had to blame it on someone else and I picked you because you have Maddox and he brings smiles to your face just thinking about him....:D:p:D

BonBon 12-16-2009 02:15 PM
This is interesting....I just got a pm from WenK and I now have another question for you terrific breeders.

She says that "the AKC policy on limited registration does not say anything about a spay-neuter clause." And "If this lady doesn't have a spay-neuter clause then it is her right to choose to breed her dogs if she wants to."

Do you agree? Is it her right, or is she just abusing the trust the breeder placed in her?

jamiee 12-16-2009 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2918834)
It's not a know it all opinion.....it's how responsible reputable breeders conduct themselves.......

Immature? By putting your dogs welfare upfront.......mmmmm immature because of concerns for the dogs....well then I gues I am immature, and I'll were the title proudly.

Mardelin...I'm sure you are a wonderful breeder. I will say this again...I am not a breeder. I happen to have 2 pets that I consider my children and they had a litter. I am trying to find these puppies the best homes I can find. I'm not quite sure how you think I am putting my dogs' welfare upfront.
The breeder did not have a contract when I bought my dog, therefore, I am not breaching anything. The immaturity sets in when you all gang up on the new person by acting like everyone should know what you, as a breeder knows. That is absurd.
All of you should go to the AKC website and read about limited registration. The first sentence states exactly what I originally said...that since my boy has limited registration, his offspring can not be registered. I never had a contract so why would I be doing something wrong here??

Mardelin 12-16-2009 02:19 PM
Never really had to worry about one either, everyone I've sold a dog to has been in close proximity to me, I see most of them since I groom them. Even when I come back into Dallas the ones I've placed there, come to Lee's for me to groom or see.

WinstonMom 12-16-2009 02:19 PM
It is possible that your contracts are legal and enforceable even if they were not done by a lawyer. I don't know if your laws are different than ours (I am in Canada) but there was an article in the Canadian Kennel Club magazine last year stating that any and all of our personal contracts were legal, even if not done by a lawyer. I haven't as of yet but will be adding a fine ($5000) for breach of any of my contract as the CKC says we can do that. We cannot just seize our dogs, we have to buy them back, but can state the price of one dollar for taking the dog back.

Audrey

Mardelin 12-16-2009 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918869)
Mardelin...I'm sure you are a wonderful breeder. I will say this again...I am not a breeder. I happen to have 2 pets that I consider my children and they had a litter. I am trying to find these puppies the best homes I can find. I'm not quite sure how you think I am putting my dogs' welfare upfront.
The breeder did not have a contract when I bought my dog, therefore, I am not breaching anything. The immaturity sets in when you all gang up on the new person by acting like everyone should know what you, as a breeder knows. That is absurd.
All of you should go to the AKC website and read about limited registration. The first sentence states exactly what I originally said...that since my boy has limited registration, his offspring can not be registered. I never had a contract so why would I be doing something wrong here??
I'm aware of the AKC rule. But, limited registration has it's unspoken rule amongst reputable breeders of spay/nueter. I knew that years ago when I purchased my first yorkie as pet only....no contact....but, the registration had the limited box blocked in......

Now that being said, if your boy was bred unintentionally, (and I don't know what your plans are) but, the ethical thing to do is to place the pups, not sell them. And the sire should have been nuetered, that would have been putting his welfare upfront as well as the dams.

BonBon 12-16-2009 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2918864)
HaHa..it started with #36 and the Nobel Peace Prize...and because I am not a responsible adult I had to blame it on someone else and I picked you because you have Maddox and he brings smiles to your face just thinking about him....:D:p:D
Well, I can't argue with any of that! :D

Wait, I wanna be irresponsible too! It's seems so like so much less stress. :p

jackson25 12-16-2009 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2918883)
I'm aware of the AKC rule. But, limited registration has it's unspoken rule amongst reputable breeders of spay/nueter. I knew that years ago when I purchased my first yorkie as pet only....no contact....but, the registration had the limited box blocked in......

Now that being said, if your boy was bred unintentionally, (and I don't know what your plans are) but, the ethical thing to do is to place the pups, not sell them.
:thumbup::thumbup:Well said responce!

jackson25 12-16-2009 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonbon (Post 2918884)
well, i can't argue with any of that! :d

wait, i wanna be irresponsible too! It's seems so like so much less stress. :p
Me too!!!

Mardelin 12-16-2009 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinstonMom (Post 2918874)
It is possible that your contracts are legal and enforceable even if they were not done by a lawyer. I don't know if your laws are different than ours (I am in Canada) but there was an article in the Canadian Kennel Club magazine last year stating that any and all of our personal contracts were legal, even if not done by a lawyer. I haven't as of yet but will be adding a fine ($5000) for breach of any of my contract as the CKC says we can do that. We cannot just seize our dogs, we have to buy them back, but can state the price of one dollar for taking the dog back.

Audrey
I know of several breeders in Canada that do have the $5,000 breach of contract in their contracts.....I'm seriously thinking of adding it to mine. It is my understanding that contracts are legal and binding if both signatures are on them; the buyer and the seller.

BonBon 12-16-2009 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiee (Post 2918869)
Mardelin...I'm sure you are a wonderful breeder. I will say this again...I am not a breeder. I happen to have 2 pets that I consider my children and they had a litter. I am trying to find these puppies the best homes I can find. I'm not quite sure how you think I am putting my dogs' welfare upfront.
The breeder did not have a contract when I bought my dog, therefore, I am not breaching anything. The immaturity sets in when you all gang up on the new person by acting like everyone should know what you, as a breeder knows. That is absurd.
All of you should go to the AKC website and read about limited registration. The first sentence states exactly what I originally said...that since my boy has limited registration, his offspring can not be registered. I never had a contract so why would I be doing something wrong here??
Have you had both pets for all 6 years? Is this their first litter? It sounds like you're very knowledgeable about what the AKC allows. Are you saying you didn't know any of this before?

jackson25 12-16-2009 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonbon (Post 2918892)
Have you had both pets for all 6 years? Is this their first litter? It sounds like you're very knowledgeable about what the AKC allows. Are you saying you didn't know any of this before?
Interesting? She has done her homework, somewhat!;)

WinstonMom 12-16-2009 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2918890)
I know of several breeders in Canada that do have the $5,000 breach of contract in their contracts.....I'm seriously thinking of adding it to mine. It is my understanding that contracts are legal and binding if both signatures are on them; the buyer and the seller.
It might make people think a little bit before they try to pull the wool over your eyes and do something stupid.


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