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-   -   Strange question/occurance (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/190202-strange-question-occurance.html)

altigger74 11-23-2009 06:40 PM
Strange question/occurance
 
Ok Gracie had her pups this past saturday. This is the second litter for her. Both the first litter and this second one had two pups that were under 2oz. The first litter she had a girl 3.3oz second was a stillborn pup at 1.8oz then a healthy boy at 3.8oz and a girl at 1.9oz that lives for 2 weeks. This second litter, she had the first boy 1.8oz who lived 3 hours and then the second boy 1.6oz was stillborn and then a girl 3oz.

I'm at a loss as to why both times she had two that were under 2oz and stillborn/lived for a short time. She is taking the year off, so she won't be bred again till next summer. I just don't know what tests can be done to find out if it is her or my male.

Any ideas?

tjdmom 11-23-2009 06:49 PM
I've no clue but it must be really sad for you. :( I'm so sorry you have had such a difficult time. What are you feeding her? I also heard about using folic acid, don't know if that would help or not.... I belong to a breeding group thru yahoo and someone on there might be able to help. This is the link...
CanineReproPuppyCare : Canine Repro & Puppy Intensive Care

altigger74 11-23-2009 07:00 PM
I signed up for the group, just waiting to be accepted. Thank you

jackson25 11-23-2009 07:01 PM
Jennifer....so nice to get to talk to you again, been a while....anyway I am so sorry to hear about all this....I am at a lose myself, what tests have you done already?

altigger74 11-23-2009 07:13 PM
Hi sweety! how are you!!!

I haven't done any tests yet since this just happened sat night. I'm trying to find out what direction to go in and what tests need to be done.

jackson25 11-23-2009 07:22 PM
I am doing great at the moment! I am so sorry to hear that this is happening to you, again!....I was meaning testing on her or him prior to breeding, like bile testing and blood testing to make sure there are no genetic problems with those to breeding.

altigger74 11-23-2009 07:41 PM
They both had the bile acid tests all bloodwork before the first breeding and everything was great. I wonder if I need to retest

bjh 11-23-2009 08:36 PM
What kind of diet was she on throughout her pregnancy. How big is this female? What day of her pregnancy did she deliver on? Has she been check for brucellosis? I am sorry for your loss. I hope you get some answers.

altigger74 11-23-2009 08:41 PM
She has not been tested for Brucellosis. But that and a bacterial infection seems to be the direction I should look to. Mom was right about 6.5lbs before she was bred. She delivered on day 63 from the first tie and 59 from the last

WV~Yorkies 11-23-2009 09:41 PM
Did she eat good? I know I had one that stopped eating on me. Her pups where so tiny and I lost one stillborn and the other 14 days later. I really keep him alive tube feeding him but I wanted to try everything to save him.

Sookie 11-24-2009 07:26 AM
Kalina had one puppy that was 1.6 oz (first litter) and it died also on day 3. Her other two puppies were 3 oz and 2.8 oz. I have thought long and hard about everything - she did have them a little early and so I attributed it to prematurity. Next time I will make sure she is confined for the last two weeks of the pregnancy (she's a jumper) and will give her vitamins during the last two weeks also. Revival has a great product called Oxymama, which I have heard wonderful things about. I might give her that during the last two weeks instead of the vitamins. Kalina is 6.5 lbs also and could easily deliver a larger puppy. Good luck.

And of course I would feed her puppy food during the entire pregnancy. :)

carmen in nj 11-24-2009 07:53 AM
I am so sorry for your loss, I would talk to a repro vet and see what can be going on, I also don't breed back to back, I do one skip one skip, it gives my girls time to recup and ME too..:D:D
best of luck and keep us informed, I belong to the puppy repro group in yahoo too, is a very Good group with LOTS of opinions and experience.
hugs,
CArmen in nj

GurleyGirl 11-24-2009 08:36 AM
It could be the smaller pups are the "premature" ones... conceived after the others... when the others are ready to be born they will force the "preemies" out.

She does seem to be carrying small pups for the size of her (6 1/2 pounds).

I'd talk to your vet and see what his/her thoughts are.

Sorry you lost the little ones. :(

TatumsMom 11-24-2009 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GurleyGirl (Post 2892419)
It could be the smaller pups are the "premature" ones... conceived after the others... when the others are ready to be born they will force the "preemies" out.

She does seem to be carrying small pups for the size of her (6 1/2 pounds).

I'd talk to your vet and see what his/her thoughts are.

Sorry you lost the little ones. :(
I really have no knowledge to help the OP but I did want to comment on your first sentence. We had an Aust. Shep. litter recently and when I asked the vet about the "age of the fetuses" because of the number of times she was bred, he said that although numerous eggs could be fertilized on different days, they all implant at the same time. So if that's the case, they would all be the same "age" at birth.

GurleyGirl 11-24-2009 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TatumsMom (Post 2892455)
I really have no knowledge to help the OP but I did want to comment on your first sentence. We had an Aust. Shep. litter recently and when I asked the vet about the "age of the fetuses" because of the number of times she was bred, he said that although numerous eggs could be fertilized on different days, they all implant at the same time. So if that's the case, they would all be the same "age" at birth.
My Pebbles gave birth to 5 puppies on November 2nd. The two I lost weren't fully developed... still had thin skin. The other three pups were full term. I bred her three days in a row... and no more after that.

This means the two I lost were fertilized later and not ready to be born .. they were 1.8 and 2 ounces at birth.

This was the first time in 7 years I've experienced this... I've had small (same size pups 1.8 and 2 ounces) in the past but they were fully developed.


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