Starting Out
 

Ok gals. I have been reading all the "commotion" about some "newbies" that want to start to breed. There have been a lot of discussion and heated debate about what makes a good breeder and what doesn't. My question to you: Why did you buy your first dog? Was it because you loved him/her or was it just to use it for breeding? One point that really concerns me is how many dogs did you "professional" breeders go through before you got your perfect dog? Where did your dogs go if they weren't "good" enough? If you still haven't achieved that perfect dog, then how much different are you then someone who is really interested in starting out and wanting to use their pet if they have really checked out their lines and think that they may be good enough? They may not produce the exact standard but doesn't that take many years and maybe never? They may have been scared out of breeding by everyone telling them that they are not good enough, maybe not in so much words, but the insinuation is there. I know, there are enough dogs in shelters, but tell that to the puppymills. I'm not trying to start anything but I've been here quit a while and it just seems like whenever someone is asking for a little help, even though sometimes it may seem silly, remember it's someones passion and we have to remember to be a little patient..

im sorry, but do you mean newbies to the site or newbies to breeding?
The breeder section for this site is a great place to ask breeding questions (as we have many seasoned breeders here). . . you have to give the newbies (regardless of which kind you mean.....lol) credit though at least they took time to join the site to learn right?

I don't know if this question is for me to answer, but here it goes. I received Bell for my birthday. Is she a perfect standard? No, but I love her, she is my baby. I bred her and had three beautiful babies. Two went to wonderful homes and made those people very happy, I kept the girl, and now she makes me and Bell happy.

Will I breed again. Yes, most likely. A long as my girls are healthy and people want their babies, I will probably breed them.

Some people here can scare you into not breeding, but then again if you do your homework and ask the right people the right questions (PM them) and don't start a new thread saying something like "I want to breed, what should I do?" Maybe they would get decent answers without the grief!

When people ask silly things like that it would worries people because, they figure you don't know what your doing and if you end up having a small bitch or an unhealthy one, Big problem could arise. What people need to do on this site is either read and reply favorably or just read and ignore.. No one has a right to judge anyone else. :p

I think this is a good question. I feel the same way you do...that sometimes breeders try to scare others thinking of breeding off...they may not men to, but they were once new too and they are not the only ones who can learn the proper way to breed.

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]There are some valid questions raised here that are worth addressing. Let me see if I can answer in order. I bought my first dog because it was recommended to me by my mentor. I had spent a long time researching the breed and yes, I did love her, but would not have bought her if she was not suitable for the purpose of breeding to the standard. I did not 'go through' any dogs, there is no 'perfect' dog, you simply do your best to find one with the correct qualities and a minimum of faults that you can hopefully improve upon. Mine haven't gone anywhere. They are my pets. It is different in the fact that I checked out the lines before getting the dog and really evaluated the quality before breeding. Not by just thinking that my dog was good enough, but by comparisons with true quality yorkies, at shows, in books and from the opinions of people who have been involved with excellent yorkies for many years. Producing the standard should not take many years, but should be apparent in the first litter. If it is far off, then something's not right and should be re-evaluated before repeating that breeding.
I have no problem with anyone asking silly questions, the more questions the better. I am more than willing to help anyone interested in getting started as this is a very rewarding hobby and yes, everyone had to begin somewhere. I am currently mentoring a person who has shown dedication and desire to learn all she can and do the best job possible to produce wonderful pups. I do get frustrated when people ask the questions and then get upset when they don't get the answer they wanted to hear. If you want me to tell you that I think it's a good idea to breed your pet because you think it's cute even though it's (let's be nice and say) pet quality...I won't. I think the motivation to do this needs to stem from a true desire to do it as well as you possibly can, not just breeding the dogs you have at hand because you can. It should be about perpetuating a wonderful breed and done with great respect for the founders of the breed who dedicated their life's work to establish an admirable standard.

Now that's what I wanted to hear! Thanks for the great answer. I've always wanted to know if breeders just went out and bought strictly to breed or if they loved their dog first and then wanted to further the line, if it was good. I always had this conception of some breeders just going out to buy dogs, good ones, and not loving them, just using them to breed and keep in kennels. Even though their lines may have champions I think that they should be treated with the closeness that all babies need. When they don't, it makes me think they are just being used, and no one, not even animals should be treated like that, IMHO. I have seen major name kennels that I wouldn't buy a dog from because I don't like the way they are raised. I like the small breeders a lot better, and you still could find good lines that way...

I don't know if it was a great answer Theresa, but you're welcome. I have to agree that problems go both ways. I too know of big show breeders that view the dogs as commodities and are in it for the purpose of their own egos and I think that is just as bad as the bybs who breed for any number of poorly considered reasons.

i have yet to have or produce a "perfect dog"...i may never. i have some that have traits i do want to pass on and some that i would like to improve on some traits. i will probably never have a perfect dog...i dont believe there is such a thing... when i began breeding i did check the lines of the dogs i obtained. thoroughly. my mentor had established 4 nice lines when i met her and she's in her 60's now. i met her 11 yrs ago. and i obtained 3 nice dogs from her to start out with. i did my research. i was young and hungry. and now i feel i have my own knowledge. we must all be patient...you are so right!! but as long as we're all doing the best we can, that should be all that matters. thanks for this thread. to answer your first question: i bought my first "breed quality" because i loved her "type". i already had one yorkie that i didnt intend to breed (she was my first and caused me to be bitten by the yorkie bug) but had in back of my mind that i was hoping (wanting) to become a breeder someday.the first dog i obtained for hopeful breeding, well she was a beauty with a true silk coat, wonderful temperament, great stucture, (not perfect, but nice) and she had alot that i wanted to hopefully see in my own pups someday.... she is long retired and living a comfy life. my very first stud was a total disaster. after 2 litters i retired him. he lives a leisure life to this day at age 11 1/2 with a dear friend of mine. i placed him at an early age so it wouldnt be such a stress on him. i now keep all of my yorkies for their entire lives. (tough subject and i've already been on that thread and learned alot) standard is hard to get. it does take years. and i also have aquired a liking for a certain trait/look. thats just me and my pref. my hat goes off to any "newbie" wanting to get into the dog world. its a challenging, yet rewarding field.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

there's one in my area, showing papillions, and doing really good at the shows i might add, but the dogs are suffering at her home... :mad:

I feel the same way.

OK this is directed at me......but I was just wondering, and I have never done this kind of thing. And while I was planning on doing my own research as well, apparently I WAS DOING MY RESEARCH. I stated that my dog is 10 weeks, and that should give me plenty of time to research what I need to and find out all I need to to make an educated decision.....

I AM SO GLAD THAT I COULD ENTERTAIN YOU ALL WITH MY THREAD THAT IS GETTING ALL THE HYPE TONIGHT!


First impressions are everything......

Don't be upset ;) Whenever I get ticked I just remind myself that this is only a message board and I am in control of my own life. :animal36

:thumbup:

I missed the earlier "commotion," but this thread has been very helpful to me. Thanks, all of you, for posting.

I am feeling confused about where this was directed at anybody in particular at all. I must be missing something. If you viewed anything I said as an attack, I apologize and if I can help you with research, I would be glad to. Feel free to pm or e-mail me at any time.

No, no, no! I'm the one that started this tread and it was not meant for anyone in particular! There were just so many different views out there, my own also, that I wanted to find out how different seasoned breeders had started out. There was not any intention to aim this at anyone, just wanted to hear different stories...

yorkiegal, i can see that that was your intention. it was a good thread!

We waited almost 5 years to get our first Yorkie show girl. We researched kennels locally, talked to breeders/handlers at dog shows and spent lots of time on the phone. We found our breeder and got on her waiting list. My husband finally made arrangements to buy her for me for our 25th wedding anniversary. We bought a female with "show potential" because we eventually wanted to breed. We started her show career when she was a little over 6 months old and continued to show her until she was about 2.5. By that time, we had a very clear idea of what her strengths were and what we would be looking for in a stud. She is a champion, the daughter of a champion and the mother of a champion in the making.

You're right that the perfect dog has yet to be born. But that's what we're going for and we'll be looking in each litter for the one with the perfect physical structure, sound stifle joints, perfect coat color and texture, etc. Doesn't mean we love them any less as pets. We just like to have very high quality pets.

My first Yorkie is almost 16 years old. I bought her because I wanted a small dog to compete in obedience. She came from what some here would call a backyard breeder, but for me it meant she was extremely well socialized (the family had 6 children devoted to the puppies). She's oversized and has big, floppy ears (and thank God she can't read), but she's all Yorkie and she's all mine and I'm just as proud of her as I am my show girls. It's her fault we're hooked on the breed. She housebroke like a dream, loves to go in the car and has been my constant companion for all of these years.

If you buy a pet and hope to breed it and come up with a show dog, the odds are extremely small that you will succeed. This breed is extremely difficult to get right. The standard is very specific and the competition is very keen. Any seasoned breeder will tell you to start with the best you can afford. Very rarely does a great show dog or a great specimen of the breed from the standard viewpoint show up in a casually bred litter. Doesn't mean that you won't have some very great pets and companions.

A lot of breeders really kid themselves that they're dogs are high quality. They may be very healthy, etc., but if you want a high quality Yorkie, buy from a show breeder. If they're not showing their dogs, they're just blowing smoke in my humble opinion.

CJ

I'm sure I missed something, somewhere! Everyone on this thread is being nice and completely helpful... :D

QUOTE: YORKIEGOLD:

A lot of breeders really kid themselves that they're dogs are high quality. They may be very healthy, etc., but if you want a high quality Yorkie, buy from a show breeder. If they're not showing their dogs, they're just blowing smoke in my humble opinion.

CJ[/QUOTE]
You sound as though your dogs poop golden turds. Saying if you want to buy a "high quality" yorkie, "buy from a show breeder" is really one sided and quite ridiculous. If you want to buy a yorkie that the judges will look at the first time in the ring, then yes, buy from a show breeder who knows the judges. Take the easy way out. If you want to make a name for yourself, then raise your own lines from " quality, HEALTHY lines" with nice traits to pass on and keep moving forward. High quality does not mean a yorkie only obtained from a "show breeder" give me a break! I have immediate lines from Lake Beuna Vista and De La Virreyna, and if i were to show one of my yorkies, i'd rather show one from some of the lines i've obtained from breeders that have little red in their pedigrees. Having put my heart and soul into my program to produce healthy QUALITY pups for people to love, I find this statement very insulting...I'm real touchy on this subject now that my daugther Ashley is about to embark on jr. showmanship and the fact that we have been raising QUALITY yorkies for 10 yrs with no complaints. I guess i'll see you guys in about a week after this thread...just 'BLOWING OFF SOME SMOKE HERE"

[/QUOTE]
You sound as though your dogs poop golden turds. Saying if you want to buy a "high quality" yorkie, "buy from a show breeder" is really one sided and quite ridiculous. If you want to buy a yorkie that the judges will look at the first time in the ring, then yes, buy from a show breeder who knows the judges. Take the easy way out. If you want to make a name for yourself, then raise your own lines from " quality, HEALTHY lines" with nice traits to pass on and keep moving forward. High quality does not mean a yorkie only obtained from a "show breeder" give me a break! I have immediate lines from Lake Beuna Vista and De La Virreyna, and if i were to show one of my yorkies, i'd rather show one from some of the lines i've obtained from breeders that have little red in their pedigrees. Having put my heart and soul into my program to produce healthy QUALITY pups for people to love, I find this statement very insulting...I'm real touchy on this subject now that my daugther Ashley is about to embark on jr. showmanship and the fact that we have been raising QUALITY yorkies for 10 yrs with no complaints. I guess i'll see you guys in about a week after this thread...just 'BLOWING OFF SOME SMOKE HERE"[/QUOTE]



I AGREE!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think these are some really good questions asked here. I don't think they are directed toward any one, just genuine questions. Even if you can get a yorkie off some of the "show quality" yorkies good luck getting breeding rights. Now, I understand why most don't want to give that priviledge as many have stuggled to get their lines the way they want them (certain looks and confirmation) and they don't want others to undo their work. But you can still find awesome quality yorkies from breeders that don't show and keep developing them within your own breeding programs. Start showing and get yourself known. Don't rely on others work with the proper research on the lines anyone can do this, if this is what you so desire. I personally would only defer new people from breeding if they don't know the risks in breeding, if they haven't done their homework. It can be very heartbreaking and expensive as well as rewarding. You really need to pay attention to herdity diseases and genetics. Not to mention this is not a get quick rich sceme, it is a 24/7 365 day and night job. Our dogs look to us for everything and so will those puppies. You just really need to be very committed to this. I think this is what most of us breeders are trying to inform everyone of what is involved. Not to say they aren't qualified or capable. Yes everyone needs to start somewhere, we are just trying to help those who don't have a clue. There is so much to consider in breeding some specialize in temperment, some breed for coats, some breed for size, ect.... Okay I am rambling now, but I think you get the point. Theresa we have had some wonderful emails with sharing on our Biewers. You have proposed some wonder questions. I think you are a very intelligent woman. If breeding is what you want to do I think you have put your best foot forward and will be wonderful at it. The rest of the newbies wanting to breed just improve on the breed, research the breed, research the lines, talk to your vet, make sure you have a wonderful vet to relay on you will need them. Continue asking your questions no matter how silly you might think they are. We are here to all help one another. Just remember it should be our fur friends health and well being that comes first and foremost.

:thumbup:
very well said. and your biewers are beautiful. :rose:

You sound as though your dogs poop golden turds. Saying if you want to buy a "high quality" yorkie, "buy from a show breeder" is really one sided and quite ridiculous. If you want to buy a yorkie that the judges will look at the first time in the ring, then yes, buy from a show breeder who knows the judges. Take the easy way out. If you want to make a name for yourself, then raise your own lines from " quality, HEALTHY lines" with nice traits to pass on and keep moving forward. High quality does not mean a yorkie only obtained from a "show breeder" give me a break! I have immediate lines from Lake Beuna Vista and De La Virreyna, and if i were to show one of my yorkies, i'd rather show one from some of the lines i've obtained from breeders that have little red in their pedigrees. Having put my heart and soul into my program to produce healthy QUALITY pups for people to love, I find this statement very insulting...I'm real touchy on this subject now that my daugther Ashley is about to embark on jr. showmanship and the fact that we have been raising QUALITY yorkies for 10 yrs with no complaints. I guess i'll see you guys in about a week after this thread...just 'BLOWING OFF SOME SMOKE HERE"[/QUOTE]

Quality is just your opinion until you prove yourself in the show ring. That was my opinion when I posted and that's still my opinion now. Many people could give a ruby red rat's ass if their dog is show quality or even can be registered. Others want quality. If you want quality you don't go to a mediocre pet breeder who claims to have quality, you go to someone who's showing their dogs and proving their worth there. I'm a big believer that a good dog is where you find it.

I don't understand why you're touchy because your daughter is going into junior showmanship. But, at any rate, I wish her the very best. It is an excellent way for a youngster to occupy their time and keep them out of the malls. It teaches them responsibility and self confidence among other things. I'll be anxious to hear how she does. How old is she? Who is she going to show?

Barney Fife

[/QUOTE]

I realize that you are a show breeder. I agreed with everything in your previous post except the last paragraph. There are some very worthy dogs out there that could be champions but for one, I know a breeder that doesn't have the money or time to start showing...again. In her younger days, she showed poodles and have raised yorkies for over 30 years now. I trust that she knows what a quality yorkie is and has "grown her own". But please don't assume that just because a yorkie is not in the show ring that they aren't quality dogs. Very true that it is difficult to find a quality, healthy yorkie but it is possible.

I realize that you are a show breeder. I agreed with everything in your previous post except the last paragraph. There are some very worthy dogs out there that could be champions but for one, I know a breeder that doesn't have the money or time to start showing...again. In her younger days, she showed poodles and have raised yorkies for over 30 years now. I trust that she knows what a quality yorkie is and has "grown her own". But please don't assume that just because a yorkie is not in the show ring that they aren't quality dogs. Very true that it is difficult to find a quality, healthy yorkie but it is possible.[/QUOTE]


VERY nicely said.

Thanks, V!!!!! :D

VERY nicely said.[/QUOTE]

First, this statement proves my point. She proved her dogs in the show ring and gained enough knowledge that she probably could've been a judge in her own right. Not what I was talking about.

But without even having met her, I KNOW that woman! She's identical to the the local poodle breeder who's a day older than God and who showed up at a dog show a very short time after her open heart surgery because she had a little bitch she just had to get into the ring. She took her in herself. We just love her to pieces. Then there was the old breeder at the specialty in S Cal who had to be taken to emergency for a defib to get her heart started again and then back to ringside whe went.

I say put up or shut up. JMHO.

Barney Fife

Purchasing a dog through a show breeder NO WHERE guarantees one will get a show quality pup, let alone breeding rights!!!

the SHOW RING is incidental to many hobby breeders because of politics and enhancements (cheating) being done to the dog in effort to WIN!

example: If the handler has a relationship with the judge more than likely he has swooned him/her with gifts in effort for his/her dog to be looked at. Many of time this has been obvious as to who wins for the day. You can have a crap dog win a major because of the handler/judge relationships more often than not.

Then there is the down right cheating....Chalk to enhance the gold, eyeliner to enhance the eyes, corn starch is added to a saddle that is not breaking giving the illusion it has, temporary shampoo in dyes for continuity to an otherwise inconsistant or incorrect breaking coat, tie the top knot too tight to enhance ear set or to make the eyes a more desired shape. ALL of this to prove your dog is of champion quality lol, yeah right! This cheating makes a show breed a far better breeder than a hobby breeder, I THINK NOT! If you can't breed a dog that doesnt require the enhancements to win, he/she does not deserve to be in the ring nor a title!

barney,
this forum is supposed to be for everyone (you) and (I) and everyone else on here to have opinions, ask questions and meet others who share an interest in yorkshires. what i find so annoying is that you tend to always down people who are doing something that may not be your opinion on how to do it. you speak about quality and breeders and you put them all into certain catergorys. i dont have to prove myself to you or anyone. i'm going to continue to raise my dogs the way i always have and if you dont like it, i really don't care! my daughter , who is already extremely confident thanks to her upbringing wants to try to become involved in showing and i fear that she will encounter those who have the same attitudes i've found here. how would my child feel if she were to over hear someone speaking the way you do about what she has been a part of for her entire life? i want my child to have fun with anything that she has an interest in. i do not want her to end up hating it due to the "my dog is better than your dog" people. at my home, we do something that you probably never will: we sale love. and along with that we work our butts off to insure that our babies are healthy, quality yorkies. there's that word you dislike to hear me use when referring to my yorkies. but regardless to what you think, we do have quality dogs as i'm sure you do and many others here. i dont really care what you think, or what mini book you will write back about this topic. and do you know why? because i know you don't have a clue as to what i do or who i am! you even tried to make me look like i didnt know what i was talking about on another thread when i mentioned i give my yorkies fresh garlic. i'll tell you what, you feed your doggies the way you see fit and i'll do the same. i did just what this forum is for and i replyed to a topic about raw diets. i did not down you because you feed the barf diet. i simply voiced my opinion on the topic and said "yuk". you get so defensive when someone disagrees with you, but you don't take into consideration that you appear to disagree with others all the time and when we don't like it, you really go the extra mile to prove yourself. being that you have resorted to name calling concerning other's yorkies in the past, i was able to read that post before it was deleted, i can only imagine what you are like. "put up or shut up" is the exact kind of attitude i don't want my daughter exposed to in "your world". i only hope she meets others that are considerate and not so high and mighty. i feel that she is in for a rude awakening. i'm done here. i have quality babies to tend to and garlic to chop.