We won't know what is the best for the Biewers . If it is better to sometimes cross back to Yorkshire Terrier or breed only Biewer to Biewer . We won't know it until it maybe is to late . I guess that it is great that there are people that believe in only breeding Biewer to Biewer ......but i am also happy that there are also people that believe in breeding sometimes back to a Yorkshire . That way we won't lose this race that we all love when one of this decisions is wrong . BUT we won't know it for a few years and i hope people stop to fight about it until the day comes that shows that the one way was wrong and than we all know which is the best way for this race .

JMO

Excellent post . I really like what you said . For this dogs i would even jump over my shadow and work together with the people that i really don't like and that i can't stand . We don't need to be friends, but we could share information and work together on the betterment of the breed .

It is wonderful to hear there are some of us willing to work together and do what needs to be done.......you are right. No one said anyone had to be the best of friends in order to work towards the same goals and that being to give the Biewer a chance to thrive. They are beautiful dogs with such personality and disposition. They deserve a chance and they have earned it!

This seems to have happened many times if I have read past threads correctly and I am sure I have not read them all. It is nice to see that, for a change, this thread is not aggressive and no one is attacking others.

Many people who are not familiar with the breed but have fallen in love with it, and, therefore, want to become breeders (inexperienced) do not know enough about their history and/or genetics to know that buying a Biewer from two different breeders does not necessarily mean their lines are not closely connected. They work on the concept of breeding same breed to same breed because they are aware of dog breeds that have been around forever and that is what they have witnessed. They (the new breeders) have no idea about how many generations their new additions go back (in the US, especially); and, therefore, have no idea how closely related they might actually be and/or what will/can occur from their breeding.

When their breedings produce sick and/or deformed puppies, the new breeder has no idea it could be from in-line breeding. They blame it on dumb luck or the breeding pair just not being a good match and they will go and buy another one and/or another pair (sometimes from the same breeder who did not have the best interest and/or health of the breed in mind in the first place) and start the process all over again.

It is not necessarily the fault of this in love, first time breeder; it is their lack of knowledge that will destroy the breed, especially, in these early stages of the breed, (in the US). This is the tragedy.

Why shouldn't they be bred back to yorkies (good and familiar lineage, not just the next door neighbors yorkie ust because you have lived side by side for the last 15 years); they began with the yorkie, why wouldn't breeding them back to a yorkie strengthen their lines?

I am throwing these questions out there, not to be argumentative but to get other opinions and acquire more knowledge about this subject, myself.

As difficult as this is, I believe every breeder that is selling a puppy (pet or breeding quality) should require in their contract that if the puppy dies (not from an accident) then a neocropsy will be performed on the puppy and provided to the owner. This is information that is needed to help with this breed. Germany has never told the full story on the health of these dogs and if new breeders are just selling this puppies without people understand there might be health issues than how can anyone be saying they are interested in the "betterment of the breed". We have to know how many of these puppies are dying of LS or autoimmune diseases. We just do not know.

This should be the commitment from both the breeder and the owner of helping with this new breed/variation.

hi sorry to butt in, i wud just like to say how wonderful the true breeders are on this site . and what a great job u all do. i never new half off the info till i joined. caring for the breed and knowledge off genes to better the breed. that is true breeding. i wud like to ask what is a biewer , i have never came across 1 over here. beautiful dogs they are. and what is the difference between them and the parti.

Simply put, Biewers originated in Germany. They all descend from the same German line. There is a set standard for Biewers, which includes specific placement of the colors. (I believe that the various clubs here in the US us a set of standards where their may be slight variations in a few areas.)

Partis do not come from any line in particular. There is no standard for Partis. Most people tend to go by rule "just like a Yorkie except for the color." (Not sure what parti producers are electing to do about the tail at this point--I guess since there really is no standard for the dogs to begin with, it really doesn't matter.)

Your second paragraph is incorrect. The partis DO originate from a particular line. I would never say that they are "just like a Yorkie except for the color." because they ARE Yorkies just tri-colored. So, yes, their tails are docked....which is the standard for all Yorkies.....regardless of their color.

Sorry for the misstatement. I assume the line you are referring to is the Nikko (sp?) line that I have seen mentioned before? Would that mean then that any dog being presented as a Parti Yorkie that did NOT have this line in their bloodline is not, in fact, a Parti Yorkie?

Sorry for offending you with my description--I guess the correct way to state it would have been "just like a standard Yorkie, except for the color" or "following the standard set for the YT with the exception of color." (Meaning that color aside, all other aspects--ear set, tail, weight, bite, etc etc would be identical to the standard currently set for the YT.) I guess the mistake was mine in assuming that what I meant would be understood.

You didn't offend me. Someone asked the difference of a Biewer and a parti and you stated something that was not completely correct about the parti. Not sure where in my post, you felt that I was "offended". :confused:

Your question of, "Would that mean then that any dog being presented as a Parti Yorkie that did NOT have this line in their bloodline is not, in fact, a Parti Yorkie?"....is kind of out there, don't you think?? You know, as well as I do, that there are carriers that produce partis. You stated, and made it sound like a fact, that there is no known line that the parti originated from....not true. Why you then take it and ask what you did is odd.

And you saying that your mistake was assuming what you meant would be understood....I did understand what you were trying to say, Misty...it's what you always say about the parti. A person doesn't have to be able to read between the lines when you have repeatedly written the same things, just different threads. :rolleyes:

You can keep writing to me, but you'll get no response....I do not own a Biewer so I will step out of this thread.

Tammy, If you choose not to respond, that is your choice. I AM truly sorry if I said something that upset you, and even more sorry that my apologizing for such seems to have upset you even more. However, I do feel like my words have been twisted, so I hope you understand my desire to explain for the benefit of others.

In regards to a determining line, it is said that all Beiwers should be traced back to the original breeding pair that produced the first litter in 1984--the original Biewer line. At least in theory. I know that a few here have done extensive research on the various carrying lines for the Parti gene, my question was simply if all partis should trace back to the Nikko line. That is how I understood the statement but if that it is not what was meant by it, then the error is mine.

In any case, simply put, the difference is Biewers originated in Germany and have a standard in regards to color placement, Partis do not. What generally seems to be the goal for Parti breeders, is to adhere to the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier, with the exception of the coloring.

How such a simple, unbiased explanation can be so misconstrued is beyond me. I realize many newer members have not heard of either Beiwers or Partis--it seemed like the most direct, easiest explanation.

sorry if i caused upset :confused: thank you for answering my question. :)

Don't apologize. It's not your fault, you asked a simple question. :) There is a general, ongoing difference of opinion regarding Partis--we all have our personal opinions regarding the issue, but for the sake of giving you what I thought was a simple answer to the question, I made extra effort to disclude my own opinion or even bring up that there was any controversy at all regarding the matter.

I think there are several members here who work with Partis that have unfair assumptions made about what they do because of the fact that there are so many shady breeders of Partis out there so naturally, they are constantly on the defensive. However, it was unwarranted in this case.

In any event, I hope you got the answers you needed. There are quite a few Beiwer owners and breeders on YT if you have any other specific question and Tammy, Pinehaven or JeanieK could answer any Parti questions you have.

thanks very much. i wud love to ask another question but hesitant..... in looks wise what is the difference? i mean if a biewer and a parti stood beside each other what would be the difference. i tryin to understand more on all the info as i have never seen either of them , :)

As per the original standard from the country of origin (Germany)...biewers have tri colored heads.

There is no standard for parti's.

HTH

In addition to what Deb said above. Partis would likely have docked tails, whereas a Biewer would not. Biewers have white on the tip of the tail and white feet as well.