My contract states:

The buyer has 72 hours to visit a veterinarian of their choice to verify the health of said dog. Should said dog not be in
good health, the breeder will, upon presentation of a veterinarian certificate stating such and the return of said dog within

2 days of the dated vet certificate, refund the purchase price to the buyer? (the question mark is actually not on the paper version of my contract ~ it was a typo and I had already done the PDF thing...it'll be changed on my site one of these days).

Anyway, that is what it says. If you have a problem with that clause - then DON'T buy a dog from me.

The next part says:

Furthermore, said dog is guaranteed against any congenital disease that proves fatal within 2 years from the date of
purchase. Upon presentation of a copy of the veterinarian certified autopsy report stating cause of death as being

solely

congenital, said dog will be replaced with a similar quality dog as soon as possible by. There will be no money refunded.

What other congenital problems are we talking about that I need to worry about? Cause, in 25 yrs, I've not encountered them. Is it because I am breeding superior quality dogs that have the full backing of my vet (who is a specialst and who, himself, bought a Yorkie from me), that I am not seeing the problems you may refer to? Hmmm...if it is, then I think that speaks for itself.

And withhodling papers until spay is one thing.. but this girl was co breeding at the time with a girl from my area.. so since she was so aggressive I had to ship her back to canada to hubby and daughter and when shipped back she went directly to the co breeder and she took her to her vet to have her spayed.. then my husband picked her up and paid the bill... well she is 5 years old now and I did not get papers.. so why would she be any better to buy from then a person who breeds two healthy yorkies that have no papers to begin with..
Again if I were a show breeder and did not want my lines to get in the wrong hands I would keep them until they are 6 months old and pay to have them altered myself..
But with her contract alone shows you what kind of person she is and how threatening she can be..
In fact it was thanks to dealing with her I began to breed so I could be the breeder with integrity.. and be a caring person and not just about myself..yes I understand the show world.. but again where are my papers.. and if she did this to me.. how many others has she done this to..is the million dollar question... if something like this happens once.. it happens all the time..I have had yorkies for over 20 years.. so I am not a novice to some breeders practice..
That is my man concern, between parvo is one thing..cost a lot for her to be at the vet one week.. then the agression was terrible, but then her not even shipping papers and calling me an idiot was something no one needs to take the chance with...
anne

Understand this …I am not attacking you.
I personally don't know you or ever had any dealing with you.
I did state you have nice dogs.
But, I would not be interested in buying a dog with a contract written the way it is.

I am however a little leery of any breeder who has been breeding for 25 years who states they have never had a problem ???.

Show breeders sometimes hide problems in their lines.
I think we all know the famous dog who has produced many progeny with shunt problems.

I have spoken to many show breeders,
From what they have stated about what goes on behind closed doors, would curl most people’s hair.

I also don't think mypreciouspups would make a statement like she did,
if there was not something behind it.

http://www.upei.ca/ciddintro.htm This site discussses the inherited problems of the Yorkshire Terrier.

I think that if anyone has a problem with the wording of a contract - it is important to ask the breeder up front and discuss the terms and get answers from the breeder before purchase. I always give a contract to the prospect buyers before they buy. Each person may have their own way of handling any problem that may arise. Reputable breeders will not mind you asking and will share with you, which they can add to the contract how a problem will be handled if needed.
You have to understand too - that a contract is also needed these days to protect both parties. There was a buyer that told the breeder their new pup died to get a 2nd pup, when in reality the pup was fine and the buyer just wanted the 2nd pup free. Sad but true! And there are people that say they are not intersted in breeding when they are. Unfortunely we do live in a world today that you just cannot trust everyone by their word anymore.

I have always given the Limited registration papers after vet confirmation papers of the spay/neuter have been received.

Confirmation showing is for?
If someone wants to show in confirmation, they will and should buy a show prospect or show quality dog. Confirmation is for competition for championship and to prove breed worthy. If you have a dog that is neutered/spay - why would you show in confirmation. Nor could you do this. Any pup sold for confirmation showing will normally be sold with co-ownship and will have full registered papers with both parties names on the papers.

All registered AKC dogs - Limited and full registered dogs may compete in AKC Agility, Rally and Obediance. So if you have a pup that is spayed or neutered with Limited papers you could participate in this part of the show.

If one wants a pup as a pet and not show in any event - JMO - you don't really need papers. For what? To show your friends they have papers? Why?? But like I stated before - I always send Limited registration papers after the spay/neuter confirmation.

The reason of the 72 hour vet check is because there are many buyers that never get the pup they bought checked out after buying it. This wording is to pursuade the buyer to take the pup in so that they can get a confirmation that the pup is healthy. This way you had a vet check it right away to make sure there are no problems at the time and the vet can see how this pup acts when healthy. And usually the 72 hours do not include the weekend since we know vets are closed half day Saturday and all day Sunday.
Too many things can happen after taking the pup - like taking it to a public park or pet store where they have other pets allowed to walk on the floor and they also let the new pup walk on this same floor or the buyer gets another pup from another breeder and it is sick and infects the other pup, or you had a sick pup recently and this new one can also get sick form the germs still in the home. Even when I go to my vets - I always bring in a pee pad from home to place my dogs on so they do not get direct contact with the table. I never let them walk on their floors, and I always change my shoes and clothes before walking in my home and the colthing, shoes, and floor mats in my car get disenfected - just in case I picked up something from the vets. Why do you think some people bring their dog to the vets? I know about this since I was a vet tech and I make sure as best I can I did not bring anything home with me.

If the pup is too sick to be transported - which has never happened to me - then you would discuss this with the breeder and the maybe the vets and decide what to do next. Each case can be different depending on the situation.

But the main thing is to talk with your prospect breeder and discuss the contract and situations that you may be concerned about. A reputable breeder will not mind you asking and discussing this with you. I do have to add that there are also some wierdos out there and some people you can never please no matter what. Ultimately they have to be reasured that their pup will have a great home and be protected.

JMO - Debbie's contract seems to be a normal contract.

She needs to PROVE it. I have nothing to prove - never heard of the woman. She says her puppy was co-bred. Well, I've only ever co-bred 1 litter..less than 2 years ago.

But, hey, if you want to believe a liar - that is SO your right. Forgive me while I go laugh....

Hummm…… that's a professional attitude.

Understand this: I have no need to defend myself. Also understand that if you would not sign my contract, than you have a motive other than acquiring a pet.

Could you please point out to me where I said I've never had a problem in 25 yrs. Do NOT misquote me...Of course there have been issues, only once AFTER I have sold a puppy...and I stood behind my puppy. Any other issues a puppy may have had are either disclosed or the puppy place - AT NO COST. You are right in saying you can not judge me...you have NO CLUE about me or my high ethical standards.

What famous dog is that? Cause, last I heard, there has been no conclusive findings on what causes liver shunt. If you want to degrade a particular dog, I suggest you go to the source instead of hiding behind a list such as this.

Obviously, if there are things that a breeder has told you that would 'curl your hair' then we now know where your loyalties are...otherwise, it is just gossip or heresay...just like what most of this list is about.

STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THAT I SOLD THIS SO-CALLED DOG...I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WHEN IT IS NOT PROVIDED YOU'LL ALL REALIZE JUST WHAT A LIAR YOU HAVE ON BOARD HERE.

Anyway, got so many more important things to do than waste my time with know-it-alls (more like know-nothings)...think I'll go pick up poop or clean out the toilet...much better use of my time!!!!!!!!!

I think you have to be very careful what you say. This is why it is so important that if you want to get into breeding, get into showing and learn who can be trusted. There are many show breeders out there that are reputable and very forthright with their lines. good luck though, as they will not deal with just anyone either.
As for your remark about a famous dog that produced many progeny with shunt problems, I am not sure who you mean.
I do know however, for there to be shunt issues BOTH DAM AND SIRE have to be carriers. So that means the breeder that might have it in their litter box would also have to have a bitch carrier that produced it. The bitch carrier came from????????
Genetics is trickier than most people on this forum will ever even begin to understand.
So I am not going to begin to try to educate from that end as I gave that one up a long time ago here.

Cripes, I mean to say whelping box, not litter box. Litter in a whelping box is what I meant.

Well I guess her memory does not do her well then.. for I did buy a puppy from her.. and she met me.. and handed her over and said did you bring the money.. told me what teats she liked.. and this is amazing.. In fact I just mentioned to some one I wondered how long it would take for debbie to be on here.. I guess it is quite normal to defend her like this.. after all if one wants a dog from another show breeder.. it would be a code..no matter if you agreed with her practice or you did not..

I have papers with her signature on it.. so I guess that is my proof.. and why would I come here to say I bought a dog from some one I did not.. HELLO!!!


anne

Debby I do not have to prove anything to you.. I have the paperwork and I bought Sara Lee from you and you know it.. and that is what matters..You threatening emails were sent on at the time to other show breeders in Canada taking out your name and information... and my reply came back and said Debbie H is the only person I would say could sent an email like this..

And your friend was Debbie Nuttal... if that does not ring a bell I do not know what would..I do believe on anther computer at home I have emails from you.. and it seems your friend Nancy bred this dog to begin with and she is a friend and breeder that is a Canadian and was living in New mexico at the time and brought the dog to you.. with your telling me she was not going to be big enough to breed.. so you were selling her...

anne

anne

WHO BRED THE DOG? You are slandering ME. If someone else bred and sold you a dog that has NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. I have NEVER sold you a dog. PERIOD. You have issues.

Excuse me, but I am not buying anything from anyone nor is Debbie buying anything from me.
I know it is difficult for you to understand that if you are going to bad mouth someone, that person has the right to say what happened and from the sounds of it, nothing happened.
The deal you were upset about a year or more ago was wtih someone in Edmonton and I couldn't help wonder why in the world you ever got tangled up with the person in the first place and I still don't understand that.

Anne, if you do have the papers then you should give let us know the name of the sire, dam and breeder. That is the only way to get this resolved.

This thread is very upsetting to me. It seems a regular trend for show breeders to be attacked and discredited. Any breeder, whether a show breeder or pet breeder has to right to put anything they want in their contract. If someone does not like the contract then discuss it with the breeder or don't buy the dog.

I have had people make false accusations against me too and I know how upsetting it can be.

P.S. I know a DEBBY Nuttall. I am DEBBIE Hiebert. Debby Nuttall has been out of Yorkies for over 5 years since her husband passed away suddenly. If you bought a dog from her (as you are mixing up our names) - then you have an issue with HER.

When my 5 year old yorkie was killed by a vet I was going to buy a yorkie from debbie nuttal... but you wanted to sell me sara.. so Debbie did helped you sell her by knowing me.. and you Debbie Hiebert met us at the pet store on our way to Flroida and said.. look at her teeth what great teeth she has.. in fact when I sent you an email in Florida telling you that yes her teeth certainly were great as she was continually attacking my two yorkies.. one a year old and one a very old girl.. you did not like that in the least..then when sara got parvo and I sent an email to you.. you did not like that neither.. and called me an idiot.. and said you do not even get it.. I still have not figured out what I was suppose to get..
So no.. I met Debbie Nuttal many many years ago.. Long before you knew her.. and I would know who Sara came from.. but it was Debbie Nuttal that was taken Sara when I had to ship her back to Canada.. and although you had been nasty to me.. I fulfilled my part and asked Debbie Nuttal to take her in for her spay at the vet as I had used him also..and when she was spayed.. my husband picked her up and went back to Petawawa..

anne

I think you stated this here.
And where does it help your cause to call people Pathetic ,Wannabes and Idiots.
If no one hasn't told you it's against the rules.

You are very confusing. I do not know you? I met you at a PET STORE? This is just all so weird. I am still in contact with Debby. I will ask her if she knows of you.

You seem to definitely be confused.

So, if I get this right...you bought a dog and transported it from Canada to Florida and then at some point your dog got Parvo and you blamed the breeder? How's that???

She certainly does know me.. and yes I lived in Petawawa Ontario with the military.. and you were in Quebec. We were leaving to go to Florida and you met us in Cornwal Ontario at the pet store and you signed over Sara Lee to me.. If it makes you feel better to say you do not remember or you do not know me.. that is fine.. for I am a believer in Karma.. what goes around does eventually come around..

And if you think for one minute that Debby Nuttal would say anything against you.. your wrong.. for I know her well.. and she will not step on your toes.. she knows better...

In fact my husband and I also knew Harold very well and you kept her dam and a litter of puppies for her while she was with Harold at the hospital with his cancer..my sister went with her for the drive to take those puppies to you to care for them.. I was unavailable at the time..

Anne

This is what bothers me and it is not very professional. I don't think Topknot or Lorainne would ever handle it this way.

I don't know who is right or wrong but I must say that when I purchase a dog that is AKC I want papers even though I am not going to breed. To me it is proof that two akc dogs were parents and the dam has not been bred to death.

I admire many show breeders but there are problems sometimes and I don't know what to say about this mess.

I remember that. I will be contacting Debby and read her what you've said here..I'm sure she'll want to know. Additionally, are you saying that the contract you have is in MY name? If it is, then you are in defiance of 2 clauses. You did not provide me with proof of sterilization...and, you say you have given the dog to your daughter. You are now in defiance of the non-transfer clause. You have written this in an open forum!

Now, was that puppy bred by someone else and I helped her sell it? Then you need to take it up with THAT person.

As for Parvo...if your puppy caught that, that is NOT the breeders fault...especially if the puppy had been vaccinated.

And, please, refresh my memory...where is there a pet store in Cornwall?

Please get out your papers and tell me the name of the sire and dam and name of the dog?

It is the ultimate proof and I will be happy to admit that I have forgotten you if it is me!

I understand a breeder not wanting to give papers until proof of spaying or neutering. The fact of the matter is that the only sure way is to have the pups altered before selling them but I have a problems with that because I don't think it is not in the best interest, health wise, to have a puppy altered at a young age.

If someone buys a pup and they don't have the AKC papers but have the AKC numbers of the sire and dam then they can still register that pup with a different kennel club. Unfortunately there are dishonest people that would do just that.

I agree that the name calling needs to stop.

I find the posts by squirrel yorkies very offensive, no matter the truth behind the story. I know Anne, not personally but from here at YorkieTalk, and I would never think of her as fabricating a story. Squirrel Yorkies, you may have some fine dogs but you leave a lot to be desired as a person, judging from your posts and I, for one, would never consider having any dealings with you. When acquiring a pup, one begins a relationship with the breeder. Relationships such as this I could do without. Just my .02.

I am sorry if I offended anyone, but when I am slandered without basis, then I get my back up to the wall.

All my puppy buyers get papers once they have fulfilled the terms they have agreed to. It is amazing how many unethical people are out there.

Ever wonder where the non-show people get their dogs from? Show people will not sell without a non-breeding agreement. So, if this is true, then they are either getting their dogs from other non-show people, pet stores or are breeding dogs whom they are contractually (not to mention ethically) not suppose to be breeding.

I have an amazing relationship with my puppy buyers. I have always and will always be there for them...more so for the dog...I answer emails, phone calls...I help with grooming tips, training tips, etc.

When someone says that a 6-month old puppy that was too small to be used for breeding is attacking 2 other dogs, it should make everyone's red flags go up...It makes ZERO sense.

Anyway, think I'll leave you guys to yourselves. This is not a venue I am comfortable in...the breeding of dogs just for the sake of making a buck has never and will never be what I do this for...as it is, I live a less than possible lifestyle just to have and enjoy my dogs...I have yet to come out of the red in this hobby.

3 years ago I flew to Paris, France to rescue one of my dogs...I'm sure you'll all agree just how unethical and uncaring a breeder I am!!

i agree with you and the name calling is beyond believe from someone who is 'supposedly' held in such high regard. Where oh where is admin and why has this person not been banned. anne i also know from here and Squirrel? well just suffice it to say I have heard of her for years. her posts on here just proves that what I have heard was right. Nuff said.

Like I've just said, I apologize for offending anyone.

However, my name is being slandered and falsehoods being told.

Since you do not know me as a person, you really have nothing to base that one on!

And, since I have wonderful relationships with all my puppy buyers, I will take from those experiences and not this one!

Barb, I understand waiting to give papers until there was proof of spay/neuter but someone said "Why would you want them if you are not going to breed" Rescue will spay/neuter very early because in some cases, it may never be done otherwise and I agree with breeders who do not want to s/n before 6 months but they should get the papers then.